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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Where do you stand on Microsoft buying Activision/Blizzard?

 

For or against the acquisition?

For 58 41.43%
 
Against 54 38.57%
 
Neutral 28 20.00%
 
Total:140
Shinobi-san said:

I ended up voting as neutral, although I've mostly been against it during debates etc.

I would say I'm fine specifically with this acquisition, provided that there are no additional major acquisitions that follow. In other words, MS stops here, Sony does not retaliate, Amazon and Meta keeps out of it etc.

Xbox needs this to compete and I'm all for the survival of Xbox and strong competition to Sony in the traditional console/hardcore gamer sector.

However, if every other major corporation starts doing the same thing, those that are for this acquisition will very quickly regret it. Sony could buy capcom or Ubisoft, the Saudi Prince can buy EA who knows. Why anyone would be for this type of extreme consolidation of the industry is beyond me.

Furthermore to that, the services impact on gaming quality is going to be noticeable in the coming decade if every major publisher follows suite.

You can't let XB have this and tell PS or anyone else large enough that they can't retaliate. You maybe could've made the argument for that with a Zenimax sized acquisition, but not after dropping $70B all at once on AB. 

If this goes through you can almost be certain everyone will retaliate in some form. I'd bet the odds are good that would likely mean going after whatever else is on the market that XB would want and could have in the future. Meaning someone like Sony would be less likely to acquire Japanese companies and would likely go after Western instead, assuming they see a positive business case for it.

I'd rather this not be the case, even though Sony would probably leave those newly acquired games as multiplatform as well, but you can't let MS get away with that now and stop everyone else.

The thing to do would be to stop the AB acquisition, and force AB to split things up if they want to sell, and then let companies bid. How the timing of the sales was handled along with the bidding is another thing, but this would be the better start. More would have to follow and soon enough. You can't just have this for right now and hold it to gaming related business.



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ConservagameR said:

The thing to do would be to stop the AB acquisition, and force AB to split things up if they want to sell, and then let companies bid. How the timing of the sales was handled along with the bidding is another thing, but this would be the better start. More would have to follow and soon enough. You can't just have this for right now and hold it to gaming related business.

Something I should've said in my post above.^

Another option might be to leave the money and timing side of it alone, and focus on the exclusivity side for mostly gaming business.

Have some type of rules and regulations where from this point forward, any multiplatform third party IP must remain multi platform no matter what. That way MS, Sony, or whoever, could buy whatever third party devs and IP they wanted, but had to keep it multiplatform if it wasn't exclusive already. This wouldn't stop third parties from making exclusive games. As a totally separate third party, or purchased yet separate like Bungie, they could make exclusive games if they choose using new IP.

This could be loopholed though. They could buy some multiplatform IP and just copy a bunch of it, change the (franchise) title, and make it exclusive. They might even close down some newly acquired third parties and create a new studio with them to do just this. That would be quite a lot of time and effort just to make something exclusive, so odds are it wouldn't happen very often, due to it being an old IP seen as brand new IP by consumers, so it's something you probably wouldn't really have to worry about much.

Last edited by ConservagameR - on 16 December 2022

Where did u get forza horizon 5 performed badly??. It did even better than its predecessor by a huge amount. It surpassed 10 million on lunch and it's over 20 million players now. That's huge and gamepass performed greatly. 

Halo infinite may not sell as well as halo3 or 2 but it sold more than what new games try to achieve and gamepass helped it

Kyuu said:

EpicRandy said:

"[...] it was then clear that Microsoft intends to control the future of gaming and manage huge IP's that sell super well on Playstation consoles.

Microsoft has clear intentions to monopolize the future of gaming via brute force (they will fail). When they gain complete control over some of the most popular gaming IP's and developers, they won't be so nice anymore. They're already raising prices after speaking against it for temporary PR points, and they attempted to double Live Gold's price and only stopped because Xbox isn't powerful enough to absorb the backlash. Things should and will change when they're more comfortable."

That's some slippery slope logical fallacy. Your argument is they will get bad/worst believe me on it. The thing is if MS get worst it will lose its base as it happened in past, as happened to Sony in the past. Also, this deal isn't gonna result in MS having any or close to any sort of monopoly and it ain't like they gonna try to go there anyway. It would be so stupid to create a monopoly just to see the government forced to divest the majority of it.

"A lot of people argued that GamePass won't need any price hikes anytime soon, and the "possible" loss in traditional sales from the inclusions of CoD and the likes would be offset by an increase in subscriber count. I argued that price hike is inevitable if every big Zenimax/ABK game is added day and date, or else Xbox profitability would decline (if it's not in the minus already) and MS higher ups may not be happy about it forever. MS missed their GamePass subs target for two consecutive years."

And you may both be right you argue 2 different things.

"It's one thing to argue that the benefits/potential outweigh the negatives/risks (fair take), it's another to argue it's only bad for Sony."

I was speaking about actors in the industry not consumer-wise. But even then, and except for Sony consumers in regards to content other than CoD and already announced ps5 titles, all I see is nothing else than fear-mongering and slippery slope fallacy not a fact-based unavoidable consequence of the deal.

"Starfield should be the first "real test", ignoring Halo Infinite and Forza Horizon 5 which left the charts as soon as they entered. Ragnarok sold the majority of copies on PS5... let's see how the Xbox version of Starfield fairs against the PC version. Oh wait... we can't... MS hardly shares anything! The only milestone in recent years they proudly shared is Sea of Thieves selling 5 million on Steam, without announcing Xbox numbers (where the vast majority of GamePass users are)."

Not sure I get what you mean by Starfield being a test thing but sure MS will get stats from it has with all titles, as for Sea of thieves they also announced 30 million unique players across all platforms in June this year. 

It's easier to get away with fucked up practices or at least dial back on "pro-consumer" stuff when you have a massive catalogue of popular games that people will trade their testicles for, that's just common sense. MS's game lineup upon ABK's acquisition should beat Sony and even Nintendo's in popularity (potentially even if they left Playstation) I know enough about Microsoft's other divisions, the history of Xbox, and the market to form reasonable opinions or expectations.

Sony is capable of getting away with worse practices than before, because they over the years built a really strong lineup of 1st party content that complements the excellent 3rd party support which Microsoft acquisitions are now threatening to weaken (It doesn't matter what they say they want to do... the simple fact that they're in Microsoft's control is a threat in and of itself, and may or may not manifest as soon as the contracts end. In Zenimax's case, it's already manifesting). Then you've got Nintendo which doesn't even bother price dropping their hardware or software, never mind putting their new games on a subscription service. Both Sony and Nintendo could get away with things that MS didn't have the luxury to consider, because Xbox's software was decidedly inferior that they had to fall back on value/consumer-friendliness selling points or else they're fucked. The New MS with the smaller acquisitions + Mojang + Zenimax/Bethesda + ABK isn't the same small player whose entire selling point is for-the-consumer and value. They'll have "other options" to consider, and this is the part that's making Sony panic, and the part that could lead to more unnecessary "revenge-acquisitions" and wastes of money that could have gone to cultivating and establishing countless developers and talents.

If I understood you correctly, you said Sony putting their games day 1 on PS+ is 99% more likely than MS toning down their day and date releases (or something along these lines). Starfield should be a good test to see what kind of impact being on a service day 1 does to the sales performance of a game with a great potential (I'm pretending/assuming Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite never had potential). If the impact on sales is too significant (exiting most charts not long post release), Sony would be less eager to try out Microsoft's model.

Microsoft's "number of players" are padded statistics that don't mean much to Sony or Nintendo. MS has to prove that their games are "selling" gangbusters despite being on GamePass, and only then will the idea of Sony putting their games on PS+ day 1 be feasible for them. They're not going to trade traditional sales for an increase in subs (and neither will Nintendo lol).

Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite both underperformed sales wise. If Starfield underperforms too, MS may consider other options, and Sony won't copy them. Just my opinion.



I'm more concerned by Disney buying everybody than Microsoft adding its name to an already 3 headed company.



I just think some of the arguments being made are beyond petty, "such and such company does this, so why shouldn't this company?". They do, they always have. If you think this is about anything other than money and control, be real. I am actually fine with whatever happens. I do not play any Activision games and the Blizzard ones I do are either out, announced or long since out on other platforms. Even then I can sign up to PC Gamepass and instead of paying £60 for a new game, I can pay £1.

Yet, MS are not some underdog in the console/games industry. They are the 2nd biggest tech company in the world. They once tried to buy Nintendo. They are not your friend.



Hmm, pie.

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The Fury said:

I just think some of the arguments being made are beyond petty, "such and such company does this, so why shouldn't this company?". They do, they always have. If you think this is about anything other than money and control, be real. I am actually fine with whatever happens. I do not play any Activision games and the Blizzard ones I do are either out, announced or long since out on other platforms. Even then I can sign up to PC Gamepass and instead of paying £60 for a new game, I can pay £1.

Yet, MS are not some underdog in the console/games industry. They are the 2nd biggest tech company in the world. They once tried to buy Nintendo. They are not your friend.

Can't see how any prior acquisitions would have the same impact as this. Most that have already happened have not had any direct impact on competing platforms. The bethesda one is the first to really make a difference and thats only once Starfield was announced as exclusive, but even that is understandable and not really "lost" as its never been on other platforms. With franchises like COD though, if it was lost to Sony/PS its major. Some people only play COD exclusively. So its a major deal for a great deal of players.



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I'm for the deal, not out of any particular ideological reason, but simply because Xbox buying ABK is our best bet for a good Banjo-Kazooie sequel. 'Toys for Bob' would be perfect for that IP and they're only getting out of the CoD mines if this deal goes through. I'm glad the regulators have stopped sleeping through all these major acquisitions and are putting Microsoft through their paces, but it should go through. Even with ABK, Microsoft won't be the biggest company in gaming and they've never had a problem putting games on other systems after acquiring them. Minecraft being a prime example that even years later is present everywhere.



Shinobi-san said:
Farsala said:

I don't really like it. First we have MS buying Activision Blizzard.

What then stops Sony from buying SE?

Valve then buys Ubisoft?

Nintendo buys Namco Bandai or Koei Tecmo?

Amazon buys EA and Sega?

That is only if this deal goes through and MS becomes extremely competitive with the others, then the other corporations feel threatened.

Have not seen any responses to this concern from those that are overly positive about this deal. Is the thinking that Xbox got the biggest publisher therefore they don't care what happens next? Or is the assumption that the other major companies don't have the will or money to follow suite?

I was thinking that the ones excited about something like this think since this basically levels the playing field (in the console space at least, MS has a massive advantage on PC vs Sony and Nintendo), there would be no need for other major companies to acquire more publishers.

But that would be the wrong assumption since this would hurt the bottom line of a company like Sony which relies on gaming as a major profit driver. Sony then would feel the need to acquire something to keep their own lead (and profits level), and we have some sort of domino effect with other companies in my opinion or even yet another major acquisition from MS.



Just make it happen already so we can move on.

Other companies will fill the hole after the purchase... Supply/Demand.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

EpicRandy said:

Why MS made the legally binding deals is irrelevant to those who will benefit from it. Also, MS stated prior to the backlash they were not going to remove CoD from the competition. No company will try to purchase another and offer legally binding concessions before they are/appear to be a necessity. So yeah MS made those as a result of the challenge they face but it is all but normal and expected.

"Using the number of employees each company has to argue for the acquisition is looking away from the bigger picture and using a single metric in isolation to get a favourable outcome"

well, if you isolate that argument from the others and than argue it's a single metric in isolation it's disingenuous, I have not isolated this argument but completed it with the rest of my argumentation.

"Just like portraying CoD as the only issue with this merger"

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/634536048fa8f5153767e533/MSFT.ABK_phase_1_decision_-_1.09.2022.pdf

  • Consumer is mentioned 14 times
  • Sony is mentioned 70 times
  • Call of Duty also abbreviated as CoD is mentioned 156 times

While it is not their only argument it revolves predominantly around it and it is by far their main one.

"These acquisitions come with legacy ever-green IPs, you can do a lot more damage to the competition with much less number of employees by simply relying on this legacy."

Yeah but MS offered assurance it won't, offered legally binding one at that. If that was the concern, Sony would sit with them and try to make Microsoft offer the same kind of deal from Diablo, Wow, Overwatch ... but all they give is silence apparently.

"As for the prevailing argument you see from the other side, I have not made this argument myself, and I have already stated SONY has indulged in objectionable practices repeatedly and continue to do so. Microsoft possibilities shouldn't be limited by what SONY has or hasn't done, but it 100% should be limited by regulation that seek to prevent monopoly over the industry. "

And I agree 100%. Though one would hope a decision on this would be devoid of political interference and factually based which is completely contrary to what we've seen with the FTC decision and reasons.

EpicRandy said:

To further my opinion on a more personal note rather than a legal one
I believe this deal is good for

  • Microsoft/Xbox
  • Activision Blizzard
  • Workers at Activision Blizzard
  • Union advocate
  • Gamepass
  • Gamapass Users
  • Switch and future next Nintendo system owner
  • Steam User
  • Anyone who wants the Acti-Blizz management/work culture to change
  • Anyone who hopes for a possibility of Activision Blizzard studios to even consider being creative again
  • Playstation plus user (Only if Sony accepts the deal and benefits from CoD on PlayStation plus day 1 as Ms offered)

It is neutral for

  • Any third party as Take two made clear
  • Anyone who doesn't subscribe/wants to subscribe to GamePass (as all the games will still be available for purchase)

It is bad for:

  • Sony*


But even then it is only bad for their ability to sell ps5+ with limited competition from the Xbox series+ system and their ability to grow their margin profits unchallenged.
Even if the deal goes through it won't:

  • Make Uncharted, God of War, Horizon, Ghost of Tsushima, and Last of Us ... fans disappear
  • inhibit the ability for Sony to create and release new games for their system and/or PC
  • prevent Sony from making other acquisitions and they've made quite a few this year and will continue to do so by their statement
  • prevent Sony from bolstering its offering (PlayStation + wise as well as a standard sale) 
  • Remove CoD from their offering
  • Make Xbox anywhere near the point of a monopoly 

Also, the impact on Sony is already mitigated by:

  • The fact they are the one who benefits from a dominant position as of now.
  • The fact that many Acti-Blizz projects are already announced for Ps5 and MS will respect all of those (ex: Diablo 4)
  • The impact of this won't be felt for many years and won't come all at once

If Sony were to fight for their user here and not for their margins IMO they would try to strike a deal with MS not only for CoD but most of Acti-Blizz's existing franchises (Diablo, overwatch, Crash...) and I believe MS would agree to all these. The fact that Sony remains silent on those and focuses only on CoD makes me believe they themselves don't believe MS would make any of those exclusive after the deal goes through. 

"Why MS made the legally binding deals is irrelevant to those who will benefit from it". 

It really does though, as the rest of your post shows, the mere fact that the FTC is questioning the buyout is bothering a lot of you for no good reason at all. It's like, here is the biggest buyout in tech history, approve it or get accused of "getting political" and "interfering". So it is important to show that this "interference", regardless of the motivation behind it, is already yielding better outcomes for everyone. 

"Consumer is mentioned 14 times, Sony is mentioned 70 times, Call of Duty also abbreviated as CoD is mentioned 156 times"

I feel like of what you argue is relying on buzzwords, headlines and pure good faith in the largest or the 2nd largest tech company in the world that has proven and documented anti-competitive behaviour in the past. 

You're also heavily relying on converging arguments and lines of thoughts a lot of what you say ends up being random.

Basically what you're doing here is the following "CoD is the main argument, here is a document with the following stats that proves it". You don't even mention that this is the CMA document, not SONY's, not that it matters who wrote it anyway! It doesn't matter because the simple fact is that Bethesda/Activision have some of the biggest IPs in history that can majorly change the outcome of console sales even if CoD remains multiplatform for good, therefore, it doesn't matter who's arguing what, it doesn't change the facts.

I also believe these arguments happen to be too convenient for Microsoft to keep the narrative around CoD going and ignore the much bigger picture, so whoever is using this argument, they need to do a better job because it only helps MS in my opinion to keep the story too focused on CoD. 

"Yeah but MS offered assurance it won't, offered legally binding one at that. If that was the concern, Sony would sit with them and try to make Microsoft offer the same kind of deal from Diablo, Wow, Overwatch ... but all they give is silence apparently." 

"Yes and no logics tell me they won't try a deal on that scale anymore unless this one does not pass"

"If Sony were to fight for their user here and not for their margins IMO they would try to strike a deal with MS not only for CoD but most of Acti-Blizz's existing franchises (Diablo, overwatch, Crash...) and I believe MS would agree to all these"

Another great examples of you relying on the good will of a giant corporation, while completely ignoring statements made by the giant corporation themselves. Again, MS has said it will be "case by case" basis, and until very recently, the narrative by MS has been "we're not done with acquisitions". So much so that the "who should MS acquire next?" has become recurrent theme in many xbox threads (including the xbox empire on vgc). But here you are, asking me to dismiss all of that and in addition, you are also telling me SONY can secure all other IPs for 10 years if they sat down with MS because you believe it and because you believe that Microsoft is only going to acquire other publishers if this one fails despite their publicly declared intents.

Sorry, I don't think you're actually convinced with your own statements, they're just... too naive and I don't believe you are naive. Honestly, I can't believe some are making these arguments, even if we lived in a world in which MS hasn't publicly declared their intents.

"And I agree 100%. Though one would hope a decision on this would be devoid of political interference and factually based which is completely contrary to what we've seen with the FTC decision and reasons."

Well, it would be a nicer world indeed if money and ulterior motives didn't influence politics, but honestly, if you actually think about, letting this acquisition pass without scrutiny is a bigger telltale signs of political interference, because it indicates that someone isn't looking at the biggest tech merger ever when that someone's sole job is to look into these sorts of things.

Moreover, Tech giants, including Apple, FB, MS, Tesla have become experts at influencing these sorts of decisions and lobbying governments around the world, by far one of the biggest spenders out there and they increase their lobbying spendings year over year. So even if these challenges are raised against the acquisition are driven by lobbyists, MS shouldn't complain someone else is using their tactics to influence regulators decisions. 

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 16 December 2022