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Imagine it’s 2023 and you buy an Ubisoft game (bad enough) day 1, heck imagine buying any Ubisoft game day 1. There isn’t another company in the industry that games depreciate faster, in a month the gold ultra deluxe edition with be £19.99. Garbage company, love to see ACM get ragged on by the critics. 

Last edited by VersusEvil - on 04 October 2023

Ride The Chariot || Games Complete ‘24 Edition

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shikamaru317 said:
VersusEvil said:

FM with a 84 meta, yikes, another flop. Next year will be Xbox’ year I'm sure.

It's down to 82 now, an absolute travesty. Proving that critics are biased against Xbox yet again for the 2nd time this year. Critics gave Gran Turismo 7 an 87, 5 points higher than Forza Motorsport, even though it had microtransactions that cost as much as $200 for the most expensive cars (single cars mind you, not whole car packs, but single cars), limited numbers of cars available in the store (meaning they could sell out and you couldn't complete your car collection), always online DRM that caused outages as long as 30 hours, and some reused car and track models from much earlier games in the series (which therefore made them very outdated).

By comparison Forza Motorsport has no cash for currency microtransactions, much better designed in-game store and car collection mechanics, and every single car model and track built from the ground up for current gen. And what do the critics do? They give it an 82 average on opencritic, lower than any other Forza Motorsport except for 5, and it is only 3 points higher than FM5, even though it has more than twice the cars and 3 more tracks than FM5 did at launch.

I'm so f***ing done with like 95% of game critics at this point, I've gotten to the point where I treat them exactly the same as movie critics, which is to say not giving any of them a single click on their reviews. 

I've been thinking about creating crawler agglomerating reviews with a focus on computing a mean bias by reviewers and producing an adjusted overall score, kind of the same way it's done with political pollsters with the likes of Project 538. Not just for games but also for movies, there's the same kind of bias on different levels with movies, sometimes it's biased against financing entities, producers, main actors, 

I think a site like this can have potential since Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes don't go this route and are seen with increasing disconnect between reviewers and users. However I don't know what is the legality of crawling and agglomerate reviews like this, I think it should be considered fair use but idk.



I think I prefer the open world Assassin's Creed but I like Angelus would love to also see a return to classic formula but one which is improved upon. AC Mirage WAS a DLC for Valhalla turned into a full game so I don't think it can be used to say "classic AC will fail" because it hasn't had the full effort of a full fledged title put into it from the beginning.

Having said that, I think my issue with recent AC is more the tone than the design, it's called Assassin's Creed but the Assassin's barely feel like they are apart of the world anymore, there is barely any focus on the creed or guild, it's more following mercenaries or fighters in their conflicts with the assassin's popping their heads in from the side-lines like "hey we're still here, help us out"

And also I will say even if open world is preferable, it can still be a lot better, I really disliked Valhalla's world.



Angelus said:
shikamaru317 said:

Yeah, I have to laugh at that myself. I told so many people who were begging for AC to go back to the classic formula that it was a bad idea. There is a reason why Ubisoft evolved the series into WRPG's to start with, it's because people had grown tired with AC games as they were in the past, which is precisely why AC Syndicate has the 3rd lowest reviews in the mainline series and was a sales flop (selling about half the copies of earlier AC games), even though it is one of the best games in the series. Ubisoft evolved Assassin's Creed at precisely the right time to save it from total decline. Now they let whining classic AC fans influence them into giving them a brand new game in the series in the old formula (instead of sticking to remakes to satisfy the classic AC fans instead), and what did it get Ubisoft? A 76 review average on AC Mirage, which makes it pretty much tied with the aforementioned AC Syndicate for 3rd lowest reviewed mainline game in the series. 

Ubisoft will definitely be sticking with the RPG formula after seeing these reviews, because all 3 RPG AC games reviewed better than Syndicate and Mirage, the 2 most recent classic formula AC games. We already know that the next 2 AC games, Red in Feudal Japan and Hexe in the Holy Roman Empire circa 1500-1600's, are back to the RPG formula. Maybe we will get the rumored remakes of AC1 and AC4, but I think it is safe to say they will stick with RPG's for brand new AC games moving forward.

I can't adequately describe just how much I hate this argument. Yes...Ubi went back to the old formula...but they did it in the most low effort way imaginable. It doesn't take old school AC and iterate upon it in any way to provide something in any way beyond those old games. Hell, it doesn't even go so far as to meaningful overhaul parkour back to be on par with AC Unity. It's the most barebones callback to classic AC imaginable. 

I would LOVE a full classic AC game, and never had even any remote interest in Mirage, because it never looked like anything more than a pumped up DLC, that yes...probably will be held up by people to say "SEE! CLASSIC AC IS DEAD!"

I can't really comment on Mirage's true quality without playing it myself, but it seemed fine mechanically based on their Summer showcase demo. Maybe the parkour isn't quite up to snuff with Unity, but it at least looked on par with the other classic formula AC games to me, in that demo. 

All I can really comment on at this point is the reviews, and looking at the review summaries for the lowest scored reviews, it definitely seems like quite alot are saying that the classic AC formula feels dated at this point. Maybe they could have made iterative improvements upon the classic AC formula, but for instance for those stating the combat in Mirage feels ass, I'm not really sure if there is anything Ubisoft could have done to satisfy them. There isn't much you can do to improve the same old counterattack based AC combat that the classic games always had without making the combat no longer feel like classic AC, Ubisoft has already tried so much to improve it back before they abandoned the classic formula the first time, from cooler counterattack animations to loads of new gadgets that could be employed during combat. If all the improvements they made to the classic AC combat in Syndicate couldn't get critics to like classic AC combat, there just isn't any way to get those critics to like classic AC combat in the modern era. 

I get the feeling that even if Ubisoft had given Mirage another year of development and given it Unity style parkour and other improvements, the maximum score the game could have possibly gotten would be maybe an 82, which is still lower than Origins and Odyssey reviewed and only about tied with the rather rushed Valhalla. There are just too many critics out there who don't like the classic AC formula anymore and will never like it again.

Ultimately I think Ubisoft is best off sticking to RPG's for their main games and remakes for the classic AC fans. And it seems like that is exactly what they have planned moving forward, with rumors of AC1 and AC4 remakes being in development within the last 2 years, and leaks stating that the next 2 mainline games, Red and Hexe, are RPG's. 

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 06 October 2023

AC would have been so much better if it didn't have the modern day bullshit as well, it's such a mess since Desmond's story and they clearly don't know what the hell they're doing with it. I always imagine an AC series which had no modern day stuff or magical stuff and just focused on Assassin's and Templars conflict throughout history...I don't know what purpose the modern day stuff even serves anymore.

Basic premise but you don't need magic to tell a good story from a basic good vs evil conflict story.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 04 October 2023

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I'd like to see a remake of the Ezio Trilogy as one big game in the style of the open-world entries. 



VGChartz Sales Analyst and Writer - William D'Angelo - I stream on Twitch and have my own YouTubeFollow me on Twitter @TrunksWD.

Writer of the Sales Comparison | Weekly Hardware Breakdown Top 10 | Weekly Sales Analysis | Marketshare Features, as well as daily news on the Video Game Industry.

shikamaru317 said:
Angelus said:

I can't adequately describe just how much I hate this argument. Yes...Ubi went back to the old formula...but they did it in the most low effort way imaginable. It doesn't take old school AC and iterate upon it in any way to provide something in any way beyond those old games. Hell, it doesn't even go so far as to meaningful overhaul parkour back to be on par with AC Unity. It's the most barebones callback to classic AC imaginable. 

I would LOVE a full classic AC game, and never had even any remote interest in Mirage, because it never looked like anything more than a pumped up DLC, that yes...probably will be held up by people to say "SEE! CLASSIC AC IS DEAD!"

I can't really comment on Mirage's true quality without playing it myself, but it seemed fine mechanically based on their Summer showcase demo. Maybe the parkour isn't quite up to snuff with Unity, but it at least looked on par with the other classic formula AC games to me, in that demo. 

All I can really comment on at this point is the reviews, and looking at the review summaries for the lowest scored reviews, it definitely seems like quite alot are saying that the classic AC formula feels dated at this point. Maybe they could have made iterative improvements upon the classic AC formula, but for instance for those stating the combat in Mirage feels ass, I'm not really sure if there is anything Ubisoft could have done to satisfy them. There isn't much you can do to improve the same old counterattack based AC combat that the classic games always had without making the combat no longer feel like classic AC any longer, Ubisoft has already tried so much to improve it back before they abandoned the classic formula the first time, from cooler counterattack animations to loads of new gadgets that could be employed during combat. If all the improvements they made to the classic AC combat in Syndicate couldn't get critics to like classic AC combat, there just isn't any way to get those critics to like classic AC combat in the modern era. 

I get the feeling that even if Ubisoft had given Mirage another year of development and given it Unity style parkour and other improvements, the maximum score the game could have possibly gotten would be maybe an 82, which is still lower than Origins and Odyssey reviewed and only about tied with the rather rushed Valhalla. There are just too many critics out there who don't like the classic AC formula anymore and will never like it again.

Ultimately I think Ubisoft is best off sticking to RPG's for their main games and remakes for the classic AC fans. And it seems like that is exactly what they have planned moving forward, with rumors of AC1 and AC4 remakes within the last 2 years, and leaks stating that the next 2 mainline games are RPG. 

I mean, an 82 would basically be around the average for modern AC.

  • Black Flag - 85
  • Unity - 71
  • Syndicate - 77
  • Origins - 85
  • Odyssey - 84
  • Valhalla - 83

Ubisoft titles in general lately struggle to go above 85. So high 70s, low 80s is basically the Ubisoft average in recent history, Lol.

Why I think Avatar and Star Wars will hit low 80s as well. Ubisoft's last title over 85 was Rayman Legends.



trunkswd said:

I'd like to see a remake of the Ezio Trilogy as one big game in the style of the open-world entries. 

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that the 2 remakes we've heard rumors of are AC1 and AC4, when Ezio was clearly the most popular classic AC protagonist. Maybe it's a case of them being scared to remake the Ezio trilogy games because they are so beloved they fear they will be accused of ruining them by remaking them.

The AC1 remake rumor was that it was being made with reused assets from AC Mirage and would be a stopgap game between Mirage and Red to give Ubisoft more time to finish Red, but more recently we haven't anything about the AC1 remake and the most recently leak (from a very reputable leaker), states that Red is releasing next year, so clearly AC1 remake will no longer act as a stopgap between Mirage and Red. Maybe AC1 remake was either cancelled or restarted from the ground up instead of relying on recycled assets and gameplay from Mirage. 

As for AC4 remake, we heard about it more recently, supposedly Ubisoft Singapore (the Skull and Bones devs) are making it and it is only in early development and won't release for probably 3-4 more years.



Ryuu96 said:
Machiavellian said:

There is not going to be any termination because how you guys see Bobby is not how corporate companies like MS see Bobby.  The only way Bobby is going anywhere is if he decides its his time to retire.  I think you guys corporate experience is based on metrics that has Absolut Ly nothing to do with how the market works or how a CEO is viewed.  Activision has been able to maintain their level of success for a long time and even if you may have negative views on Bobby in general, the fact that he has navigated this success for a long time means that he had to make some decisions that not only kept the lights on but also kept ABK as one of the leading publishers in the business.

None of us even know the deal between MS and ABK nor how ABK will be structured when they become a part of MS.  The only reason why I believe Bobby will retire is because this is a huge payday for him since he owns as a personal employee the most stock in the company.  This is a retirement deal and thus he will move on but termination from MS is definitely not what is going to happen.  Bobby will leave when he wants to leave and if he wants to stay he would have already negotiated that within the sale.  This fantasy that Phil is going to terminate Bobby is pure fiction, all of this has already been decided between the 2 companies.  The only way this deal happens is because of Bobby and the only way this deal goes down and how ABK will be structured under MS is based on Bobby as well.  Lets not kid ourselves and believe that Bobby is just going to be sitting there not knowing how everything that happens transpire from after the sale.  All of this has already been determined.

I just said that they'll likely wait until his contract expires in April 2024 because it will be less costly than terminating him, Lol.

The reason I think he will be leaving is multiple.

  1. I don't believe someone like Bobby who has been his own boss for so many years now, will actually like suddenly not being the boss and having to answer to someone else, that is Phil Spencer now, Bobby no longer will be making the decisions, Phil will. It's like Phil said when someone asked him about Bobby's dislike of Game Pass and his belief that titles shouldn't launch into it, Phil's response was simply Bobby isn't making the decisions anymore, I am. I think Bobby is the sort of arrogant, self centred twat who will hate having to answer to someone else and lose his power because that is what is happening here, once the acquisition closes, Bobby will lose power.
  2. He's going to make hundreds of millions from this deal, he can comfortably retire for the rest of his life. Remember it was Activision-Blizzard (Bobby Kotick himself) who sought out an acquisition after the mess that happened. I'm fairly confident that Bobby just wants to wash his hands of the whole thing now and semi-retire, he is 60 years old.
  3. The CEO position is null and void once the acquisition closes, there is no CEO, that role will be dissolved, just like it was dissolved in Zenimax, just like it was dissolved in all their other acquisitions. The only CEOs in Microsoft are Satya Nadella (Microsoft), Phil Spencer (Microsoft Gaming) and Ryan Roslansky (Linkedin CEO) and that's cause Linkedin is limited integration into Microsoft but Activision-Blizzard will be under Microsoft Gaming. Therefore even more degradation of Bobby's power.
  4. You tell me what sense it makes in having Rob Kostich (President of Activision) and Mike Ybarra (President of Blizzard) report to Bobby Kotick who reports to Phil Spencer who now makes all of the decisions for Activision-Blizzard instead of just having Rob Kostich and Mike Ybarra report directly to Phil. Bobby becomes nothing more than an overpaid middle-man. Bobby Kotick only needs to stay for the transition and then he can go, unless you believe that Rob Kostich and Mike Ybarra who have been running Activision and Blizzard now for years, can't run Activision and Blizzard, then we have bigger problems.
  5. Bobby Kotick isn't the dude managing the day to day operations, Kostich and Ybarra are. Bobby is just the dude making the business decisions but the business decisions under Xbox are going to be vastly different now because of Game Pass, something which Bobby doesn't agree with. Bobby's direction of business will NOT align with Xbox's direction of business. That doesn't mean one is wrong, it just means they have two different directions.
  6. Bobby is a walking PR disaster waiting to happen.
  7. We have multiple reputable journalists who say Bobby will leave post-acquisition closure, I'm not talking random gaming journalists or some dudes on 4Chan but actual reputable business organisations who are very clued into the stock market and have very strong business related sources. I can't remember which it was but I think it was Bloomberg who said Bobby is leaving.

We do know the deal, Activision-Blizzard is coming under Microsoft Gaming and will report directly to Phil Spencer...We've already been told that.

We both agree that he is leaving and I didn't say Microsoft will terminate him early, I said they'll likely wait for his contract to expire, I don't believe it was a coincidence that he specifically pointed out that his contract only lasts until April 2024 and he will stay as long as Microsoft needs him for the transitional process.

Ryuu, we only know the surface of the deal.  Just know that ABK will be part of MS gaming is about all we know but if you believe merging a company as big as ABK is just that simple you are getting ahead of yourself.  There is a lot that goes into the acquisition and details we will never know.  If Bobby wanted to he could pretty much negotiate whatever position he wants and also who he reports to.  

The main point I am stating is that your use of the term Termination is vastly wrong.  Bobby will leave as I stated because its time for him to retire and he saw this huge money grabbing opportunity to do so because MS was thirsty.  Your statements make it appear as if Bobby is just going to walk into the office one day and bam, Phil is going to tell him his time is up.  That is not going to happen.  Instead as I stated, Bobby has already negotiated his retirement and he will leave when he feel like it.  He isn't going to be terminated.  He will be making a lot of decisions before and after the sale and if he so chooses, he can stay on doing whatever he has negotiated until he is ready to go.

As for being a PR disaster, I actually disagree with this.  PR stuff on the level that he has faced is pretty much small potatoes.  One thing is a constant, especially in high level C positions, if you pretty much just keep your mouth shut, gamers have a pretty short attention span and move on to something else.  None of that stuff actually going to really mean anything.

As for Bobby as CEO not making the decisions that has put the company where its at.  I believe you are letting your bias cloud your vision.  There are no decisions that get done without the CEO approval.  All C level execs report to Bobby and for a company that is not as diversified as MS, that means he does make and approve just about everything that goes on in the company.  Having sat through multiple C level exec meetings, all projects, direction of the company and day to day business deals, acquisitions you name it are discussed and approved or denied by the CEO.  Like I said, just because you do not like the guy do not get it twisted that he runs the company.  He is not managing the grunt level details but all major decisions and directions goes pass him before getting done.



Ryuu96 said:
shikamaru317 said:

I can't really comment on Mirage's true quality without playing it myself, but it seemed fine mechanically based on their Summer showcase demo. Maybe the parkour isn't quite up to snuff with Unity, but it at least looked on par with the other classic formula AC games to me, in that demo. 

All I can really comment on at this point is the reviews, and looking at the review summaries for the lowest scored reviews, it definitely seems like quite alot are saying that the classic AC formula feels dated at this point. Maybe they could have made iterative improvements upon the classic AC formula, but for instance for those stating the combat in Mirage feels ass, I'm not really sure if there is anything Ubisoft could have done to satisfy them. There isn't much you can do to improve the same old counterattack based AC combat that the classic games always had without making the combat no longer feel like classic AC any longer, Ubisoft has already tried so much to improve it back before they abandoned the classic formula the first time, from cooler counterattack animations to loads of new gadgets that could be employed during combat. If all the improvements they made to the classic AC combat in Syndicate couldn't get critics to like classic AC combat, there just isn't any way to get those critics to like classic AC combat in the modern era. 

I get the feeling that even if Ubisoft had given Mirage another year of development and given it Unity style parkour and other improvements, the maximum score the game could have possibly gotten would be maybe an 82, which is still lower than Origins and Odyssey reviewed and only about tied with the rather rushed Valhalla. There are just too many critics out there who don't like the classic AC formula anymore and will never like it again.

Ultimately I think Ubisoft is best off sticking to RPG's for their main games and remakes for the classic AC fans. And it seems like that is exactly what they have planned moving forward, with rumors of AC1 and AC4 remakes within the last 2 years, and leaks stating that the next 2 mainline games are RPG. 

I mean, an 82 would basically be around the average for modern AC.

  • Black Flag - 85
  • Unity - 71
  • Syndicate - 77
  • Origins - 85
  • Odyssey - 84
  • Valhalla - 83

Ubisoft titles in general lately struggle to go above 85. So high 70s, low 80s is basically the Ubisoft average in recent history, Lol.

Why I think Avatar and Star Wars will hit low 80s as well. Ubisoft's last title over 85 was Rayman Legends.

You forgot Rogue which got a 73 I believe.

I think it's pretty telling that out of all those AC games from the last decade, the RPG ones overall got the highest scores with only Black Flag able to match them out of the classic formula games (and it was only able to do so because it shook up the classic formula so much by adding in all of the naval stuff with naval combat and whaling and such).

I personally think that both Syndicate and Black Flag were underreviewed by critics, as well as Odyssey and Origins, the critic averages for the rest feel about right to me.

Trust me, I like the classic AC formula games, always have (my ranking for the series has Black Flag and Syndicate both in the top 5), but the fact of the matter is that critics don't seem to like the classic AC formula any longer, and Syndicate selling like half the copies that previous classic formula AC games sold also suggest that the majority of gamers were getting bored of them as well. Ubisoft made the right call deciding to evolve the series to the RPG formula, as evidenced by the immediate upturn in both reviews and sales in the wake of 3 classic AC formula games in a row underperforming (AC Rogue, AC Unity, and AC Syndicate). 

Sales went up from 5.5m in 2 years on Syndicate to 10m+ on all 3 RPG AC games. Reviews went up from an average of about 75 on those 3 classic formula games (Unity, Rogue, and Syndicate) to an average of about 84 on the RPG games. Ubisoft made the right call, it's backed up by numbers. Ubisoft's best bet moving forward would seem to be sticking with RPG for brand new games and graphics/QoL update only remakes for the classic fans.