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coolbeans said:

The quotation around the word "dev" 💀

Ok... I'm not a fan of how Mark Kern's tweet either, but the implications with "dev" are outright obnoxious.  You're talking about someone who was an old-school Blizzard dev, including StarCraft, Diablo II, & team lead for WoW, who was partly inspired to leave based on moral grounds.  It'd be nice if we just stuck to casual dunking of a dumb tweet versus this attitude.

I don’t like your attitude, you get back to “writing” ps vita articles. 



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If you gonna throw down on the internet be prepared to get thrown down. Also the guy better put himself in the body bag. 



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shikamaru317 said:
coolbeans said:

Ok... I'm not a fan of how Mark Kern's tweet either, but the implications with "dev" are outright obnoxious.  You're talking about someone who was an old-school Blizzard dev, including StarCraft, Diablo II, & team lead for WoW, who was partly inspired to leave based on moral grounds.  It'd be nice if we just stuck to casual dunking of a dumb tweet versus this attitude.

Yeah, same here. Kern's tweet was stupid, and it's pretty obvious that it is motivated purely by a personal dislike of Microsoft, but the man is still a game dev, putting it in quotations seems unnecessarily rude. Yes, his next game (Em-8er) is taking awhile to release, but he is still a game developer, a rather legendary one who directed vanilla WoW and was head producer on Diablo 2. He is also a man who chose morals over money, deciding to leave when he learned that Activision intended to buy out Blizzard because he knew that Activision's ownership would destroy the culture at Blizzard, and his prediction proved accurate, they transformed from a legendary developer into what they are now, a rather soulless company that injects microtransactions and battlepasses into everything, one that has over time driven away many other classic Blizzard devs including Chris Metzen and Overwatch creator Jeff Kaplan. 

I think it is pretty obvious that the reason Mark Kern is angry about the ABK buyout and now attacking Xbox every chance he gets is because he personally sees some parallels between Microsoft buying ABK, and the original Activision-Blizzard merger that prompted him to leave the company. He clearly still cares for Blizzards IP's and what remain of his old friends that still work there, and is worried that Microsoft will do even more damage to them than Activision did, via even higher levels of monetization to go alongside day one Gamepass releases. I personally think he is wrong, I think Microsoft ownership of Blizzard will be a boon for the Blizzard developers and their IP's, but I understand why he is worried, because Microsoft could very easily decide to take the greed route at some point in the future. I just wish he would stick to those talking points instead of finding increasingly stupid things to criticize Microsoft/Xbox over, like a title screen being too static and simple for his liking. 

I don't think it's a dislike of Microsoft, the dude is just a prick, Lol.

He did not "Direct" World of Warcraft, he is listed as "Team Lead" The Director was Chris Metzen. He was also not the "Head Producer" on Diablo 2, he was a Producer (alongside Kenneth Williams) the "Lead Producers" were Matthew Householder, Bill Roper and Michael Morhaime.

Mark E. Kern - Video Game Credits - MobyGames

This dude really can't talk about "Activision" destroying the culture of Blizzard when you look at this shit.

r/PCGaming

r/Firefall

Mark ain't angry. I didn't actually know he was still working on a game, now I know why he's being such a prick on Twitter every chance he gets, because he's grifting to get attention for his dying game. The dude is worried about monetisation? He has $40 to $1,500 packages for his game AND a subscription plan, Lmao. He is just as greedy.



Imaginedvl said:
coolbeans said:

Ok... I'm not a fan of how Mark Kern's tweet either, but the implications with "dev" are outright obnoxious.  You're talking about someone who was an old-school Blizzard dev, including StarCraft, Diablo II, & team lead for WoW, who was partly inspired to leave based on moral grounds.  It'd be nice if we just stuck to casual dunking of a dumb tweet versus this attitude.

I'm sorry but saying that he left partly inspired by morale grounds is speculation, and we really don't know at the end; could have just been good timing but bringing that to show some bright light is not working for me at least. You can do something nice (or like this one; speculate that he did instead of using it as a good excuse because of the timing) and still be an ass... 

Posting something like that shows me that he is not that "nice" guy at all actually. This is really bad to shit on other devs esp. if he is in the industry for so long. He knows how those devs worked their ass for years to bring that game up and it is very disrespectful.

To me, that guy sounds like a complete jerk. Being a long-time dev does not change that.

And this goes for all the other 'devs' posting that kind of shit lately; this is a really dicky attitude and what is the point of doing that and bitching other players/devs in your industry.

Edit: I'm a dev, and I'm particularly sensible to this; same when someone in my team talks shit about another dev; this is just the worse.

Key points, yeah.

He's meant to be a developer, it's one thing when this comes from some Twitter console warrior but from another developer? He's a tool.

I'd say that I hope Microsoft blacklists him from joining any of their studios but considering he hasn't joined any noteworthy studio since he left Blizzard 20 years ago, I'm pretty sure that was never happening to begin with. Maybe there's a reason for that...Sure some people may not want to join big studios or just stay low-key but those with reputations of being assholes and poor leaders? Makes me think the reason is because nobody wants him.



Imaginedvl said:
coolbeans said:

Ok... I'm not a fan of how Mark Kern's tweet either, but the implications with "dev" are outright obnoxious.  You're talking about someone who was an old-school Blizzard dev, including StarCraft, Diablo II, & team lead for WoW, who was partly inspired to leave based on moral grounds.  It'd be nice if we just stuck to casual dunking of a dumb tweet versus this attitude.

I'm sorry but saying that he left partly inspired by morale grounds is speculation, and we really don't know at the end; could have just been good timing but bringing that to show some bright light is not working for me at least. You can do something nice (or like this one; speculate that he did instead of using it as a good excuse because of the timing) and still be an ass... 

Posting something like that shows me that he is not that "nice" guy at all actually. This is really bad to shit on other devs esp. if he is in the industry for so long. He knows how those devs worked their ass for years to bring that game up and it is very disrespectful.

To me, that guy sounds like a complete jerk. Being a long-time dev does not change that.

And this goes for all the other 'devs' posting that kind of shit lately; this is a really dicky attitude and what is the point of doing that and bitching other players/devs in your industry.

Edit: I'm a dev, and I'm particularly sensible to this; same when someone in my team talks shit about another dev; this is just the worse.

Sure.  It's fair to say "allegedly" in that case, but his account does seem to line up with his station and what went down after WoW's launch.  Being team lead and having corporate make you select who to fire post-launch, especially after months of crunch, doesn't seem that far-fetched - especially with what's come out about Blizzard since then.  I only incorporated that to suggest were Blizzard corporate not so vicious, Kern may have worked there much longer.

I mean... this ropes back to why I responded in the first place.  If you're willing to put someone on blast over what (at best) reveals an inordinate focus towards a game's main menu, and thus a reflection of the game proper, I don't see why that same critical character analysis can't also be applied to Pete Hines' swipe by suggesting he's not a real dev.  Is it not also fair to suggest it's an escalation on Hines' part?



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Actually calling it stupid is too light, it was incredibly insulting for Mark to say that the entire team doesn't care about their game because Mark doesn't like their wallpaper, Lol. This is a simple case of "Fuck Around and Find Out" and I won't tone police Pete Hines for biting back. Mark was (maybe) once a good developer 20 years ago but he sure as shit isn't anymore and doesn't know what he's talking about.

If Pete Hines was my boss, I would be proud to work under him, I like when developers call out bullshit in defence of each other, although having said that, I would also agree that maybe it wasn't the smart thing to do simply because Mark Kern ain't nothing but an attention farming troll now and he is getting what he wants, attention.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 20 August 2023





Ryuu96 said:
shikamaru317 said:

Yeah, same here. Kern's tweet was stupid, and it's pretty obvious that it is motivated purely by a personal dislike of Microsoft, but the man is still a game dev, putting it in quotations seems unnecessarily rude. Yes, his next game (Em-8er) is taking awhile to release, but he is still a game developer, a rather legendary one who directed vanilla WoW and was head producer on Diablo 2. He is also a man who chose morals over money, deciding to leave when he learned that Activision intended to buy out Blizzard because he knew that Activision's ownership would destroy the culture at Blizzard, and his prediction proved accurate, they transformed from a legendary developer into what they are now, a rather soulless company that injects microtransactions and battlepasses into everything, one that has over time driven away many other classic Blizzard devs including Chris Metzen and Overwatch creator Jeff Kaplan. 

I think it is pretty obvious that the reason Mark Kern is angry about the ABK buyout and now attacking Xbox every chance he gets is because he personally sees some parallels between Microsoft buying ABK, and the original Activision-Blizzard merger that prompted him to leave the company. He clearly still cares for Blizzards IP's and what remain of his old friends that still work there, and is worried that Microsoft will do even more damage to them than Activision did, via even higher levels of monetization to go alongside day one Gamepass releases. I personally think he is wrong, I think Microsoft ownership of Blizzard will be a boon for the Blizzard developers and their IP's, but I understand why he is worried, because Microsoft could very easily decide to take the greed route at some point in the future. I just wish he would stick to those talking points instead of finding increasingly stupid things to criticize Microsoft/Xbox over, like a title screen being too static and simple for his liking. 

I don't think it's a dislike of Microsoft, the dude is just a prick, Lol.

He did not "Direct" World of Warcraft, he is listed as "Team Lead" The Director was Chris Metzen. He was also not the "Head Producer" on Diablo 2, he was a Producer (alongside Kenneth Williams) the "Lead Producers" were Matthew Householder, Bill Roper and Michael Morhaime.

Mark E. Kern - Video Game Credits - MobyGames

This dude really can't talk about "Activision" destroying the culture of Blizzard when you look at this shit.

r/PCGaming

r/Firefall

Mark ain't angry. I didn't actually know he was still working on a game, now I know why he's being such a prick on Twitter every chance he gets, because he's grifting to get attention for his dying game. The dude is worried about monetisation? He has $40 to $1,500 packages for his game AND a subscription plan, Lmao. He is just as greedy.

My understanding is that Metzen was the creative director while Kern was the game director (just with a different title of team lead). On some games those are a shared role, on others, they are separate. On games where it is split, the creative director handles the more creative aspects of development, such as designing the game world, while the game director is a more managerial position, Kern's job would have been keeping the team on task, keeping development on schedule, keeping the overall dev machine running smoothly. That is a big part of why he left Blizzard in 2006, when he first heard that there were Activision buyout discussions taking place (the buyout would eventually close 2 years later in 2008). He knew that the work culture at Blizzard would be damaged, he knew that they would grow too large to properly manage, those were both predictions that turned out accurate.

For instance we recently learned that over 8,600 people worked on Diablo 4 in some capacity between the core team (of over 1200 I believe) and localization teams and QA teams and voice casts in each language and contract workers and such (making it the game with the largest dev team of all-time if I'm not mistaken, beating out RDR2 with 4,100 people who worked on the game in 2nd place), compared to the Vanilla WoW team that Kern lead being just 40 developers for about 80% of it's dev cycle, growing to 80 developers as launch neared and more devs were needed for crunch. Mark knew that when a team grows to a huge size it becomes horribly inefficient, it's the same issue that Ubisoft has had with growing too big, when you grow that big you are wasting a ton of money on extra payroll for developers who are only operating at like 20% of the efficiency of developers on a smaller team. It's because Blizzard has grown to that unmanageable size of over 6,000 employees that they now have to inject monetization into everything just to make back their huge budgets

EM8ER is a crowdfunded space game much like Star Citizen, he is selling those expensive ships and such for the game to cover the development costs because he doesn't want to go to a large publisher for funding. I'm personally not a fan of that monetization model for indie games, but Star Citizen proved that it can work, and any form of crowdfunding always has risks (just ask the people that crowdfunded those Peter Molyneux games xD).

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 20 August 2023

Ryuu96 said:

Actually calling it stupid is too light, it was incredibly insulting for Mark to say that the entire team doesn't care about their game because Mark doesn't like their wallpaper, Lol. This is a simple case of "Fuck Around and Find Out" and I won't tone police Pete Hines for biting back. Mark was (maybe) once a good developer 20 years ago but he sure as shit isn't anymore and doesn't know what he's talking about.

If Pete Hines was my boss, I would be proud to work under him, I like when developers call out bullshit in defence of each other, although having said that, I would also agree that maybe it wasn't the smart thing to do simply because Mark Kern ain't nothing but an attention farming troll now and he is getting what he wants, attention.

Quote: "Starfield's start screen either shows hasty shipping deadlines by a passionate team overworked, or a team that didn't care."