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Forums - Politics Discussion - Shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas (19 Students, 2 Teachers Dead)

sc94597 on 29 May 2022
Cobretti2 said:

The footage they showed in Australia was just regular cops, 5 of them that was it when they were stopping parents.

They made it sound like the SWAT team come in later.

The original police entered the school around 11:40 were not SWAT. By 12:00 though when the decision was made to not break down the door, there were police with military weapons and tactical gear themselves. The incident commander told them to not break down the door, seemingly because he assumed everyone was dead, despite the fact that there were still children calling 911. By 12:15 the border patrol who would eventually kill him arrived. They didn't kill him until 12:50. 80 minutes passed between the initial police contact and when the shooter was killed. Even the chief of police admitted it was the wrong decision. 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/27/us/uvalde-texas-elementary-school-shooting-friday/index.html

"From the benefit of hindsight where I'm sitting now, of course it was not the right decision," McCraw said of the supervisor's call not to confront the shooter. "It was the wrong decision. Period. There's no excuse for that."
"In all, 80 minutes passed between when officers were first called to the school at 11:30 a.m. to when a tactical team entered locked classrooms and killed the gunman at 12:50 p.m., McCraw said. The tactical team was able to enter using keys from a janitor, he added."
"Members of the Border Patrol tactical team, known as BORTAC, arrived with shields at 12:15 p.m. There they waited."
"The delayed response runs contrary to commonly taught active shooter protocol, established after the Columbine school shooting of 1999, to stop the shooter as quickly as possible and even bypass helping the injured. The revelations also help explain why officials have offered contradictory information over the past three days as to what law enforcement did in response."
"The levels of failure are just incredible, beyond belief," said Anthony Barksdale, the former acting Baltimore police commissioner."

"The girl called again at 12:16 p.m. and said there were eight to nine students alive, McGraw said. Another student called 911 from Room 111 three minutes later but hung up at the urging of another student. On a 911 call at 12:21 p.m., three shots can be heard, he said."
"The belief was that there may not be anybody living anymore and that the subject has now tried to keep law enforcement at bay or entice them to come in to (die by) suicide," he said.
"A female student called 911 at 12:36 p.m. that lasted for 21 seconds, but then called back and was told to stay on the line and remain quiet. At 12:43 p.m. and 12:47 p.m. she asked 911 to please send police now.
Finally, at 12:50 p.m., the tactical team entered the room and shot and killed the suspect."
---------------------------------------------------
That's about 35 minutes border patrol was there with shields and they still did nothing but wait. 
Last edited by sc94597 - on 29 May 2022

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Cobretti2 on 29 May 2022
sc94597 said:
Cobretti2 said:

The footage they showed in Australia was just regular cops, 5 of them that was it when they were stopping parents.

They made it sound like the SWAT team come in later.

The original police entered the school around 11:40 were not SWAT. By 12:00 though when the decision was made to not break down the door, there were police with military weapons and tactical gear themselves. The incident commander told them to not break down the door, seemingly because he assumed everyone was dead, despite the fact that there were still children calling 911. By 12:15 the border patrol who would eventually kill him arrived. They didn't kill him until 12:50. 80 minutes passed between the initial police contact and when the shooter was killed. Even the chief of police admitted it was the wrong decision. 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/27/us/uvalde-texas-elementary-school-shooting-friday/index.html

"From the benefit of hindsight where I'm sitting now, of course it was not the right decision," McCraw said of the supervisor's call not to confront the shooter. "It was the wrong decision. Period. There's no excuse for that."
"In all, 80 minutes passed between when officers were first called to the school at 11:30 a.m. to when a tactical team entered locked classrooms and killed the gunman at 12:50 p.m., McCraw said. The tactical team was able to enter using keys from a janitor, he added."
"Members of the Border Patrol tactical team, known as BORTAC, arrived with shields at 12:15 p.m. There they waited."
"The delayed response runs contrary to commonly taught active shooter protocol, established after the Columbine school shooting of 1999, to stop the shooter as quickly as possible and even bypass helping the injured. The revelations also help explain why officials have offered contradictory information over the past three days as to what law enforcement did in response."
"The levels of failure are just incredible, beyond belief," said Anthony Barksdale, the former acting Baltimore police commissioner."

"The girl called again at 12:16 p.m. and said there were eight to nine students alive, McGraw said. Another student called 911 from Room 111 three minutes later but hung up at the urging of another student. On a 911 call at 12:21 p.m., three shots can be heard, he said."
"The belief was that there may not be anybody living anymore and that the subject has now tried to keep law enforcement at bay or entice them to come in to (die by) suicide," he said.
"A female student called 911 at 12:36 p.m. that lasted for 21 seconds, but then called back and was told to stay on the line and remain quiet. At 12:43 p.m. and 12:47 p.m. she asked 911 to please send police now.
Finally, at 12:50 p.m., the tactical team entered the room and shot and killed the suspect."
---------------------------------------------------
That's about 35 minutes border patrol was there with shields and they still did nothing but wait. 

Yer see that wasn't reported originally here. I would have expected that they storm in at 12:20 if they arrived at 12:15. therefore 100% agree no excuses here.

The regular cops is what I was referring to, to me they not trained to deal with these situations and made sense why they didn't rush in. Didn't realise the specialised unit to handle these situations also waited.



 

 

sc94597 on 29 May 2022

Btw the regular Uvalde police all are outfitted with Level 4 armor, which is capable of stopping armor-piercing rifle rounds (not something an AR-15 would shoot, most AR-15's shoot .223, roughly comparable to the level 1 example in the graphic below.) So unless this shooter, who just bought a gun a few weeks before, was an amazing shot, I am skeptical that they couldn't have neutralized him before the border patrol came -- especially since pretty much every police department in Texas has training on school shootings, and Uvalde has its own SWAT team. 

https://bulletproofzone.com/blogs/bullet-proof-blog/what-is-level-iv-body-armor

And sure maybe one or two of them would've been injured or died, but how many children would've lived?



Cobretti2 on 29 May 2022

Honestly, from outside looking in, all we see if how incompetent regular cops are in America, Panic shoot victims. They may have the gear but doesn't me they really have the skills to do the job.

Just go back to your primary school days. There was always a kid with the best sports gear on a team but he was probably the worst player too lol. Their parents thought it was the gear not the natural talent that made person good lol.



 

 

LurkerJ on 29 May 2022

I swear at one point I thought these commentators and hosts were trolling... 

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 29 May 2022

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Cobretti2 on 29 May 2022
LurkerJ said:

I swear at one point I thought these commentators and hosts were trolling... 

Surprised one of the solutions wasn't John Rambo.

Best one is blaming lockdowns. I mean fuck there was no mass shootings before than?  Here where I am in Aus, we were basically in lockdown for 2 years and don't see a rise of mass shootings.



 

 

Rab on 30 May 2022
LurkerJ said:

I swear at one point I thought these commentators and hosts were trolling... 

David Bowie 



LurkerJ on 30 May 2022
Cobretti2 said:
LurkerJ said:

I swear at one point I thought these commentators and hosts were trolling... 

Surprised one of the solutions wasn't John Rambo.

Best one is blaming lockdowns. I mean fuck there was no mass shootings before than?  Here where I am in Aus, we were basically in lockdown for 2 years and don't see a rise of mass shootings.

Yes, the lockdown one was particularly disturbing as Tucker's show is probably the biggest show in the US, moreover, it's a scripted show with hundreds of people involved in preparing it and writing it, no one stopped to tell Tucker he's about to give the stupidest explanation for mass shootings? Talk about mass delusion.. 



Chris Hu on 31 May 2022

Even though what happened was terrible it could have been a lot worse since the perpetrator had over 1,600 rounds of ammo on him. Good thing he didn't do any actual shooting training before he went on his rampage.



Chrkeller on 31 May 2022
Chris Hu said:

Even though what happened was terrible it could have been a lot worse since the perpetrator had over 1,600 rounds of ammo on him. Good thing he didn't do any actual shooting training before he went on his rampage.

Well the NRA wants single entry and exit to schools because guns aren't the problem because reasons.  Anyway, could you imagine if somebody wants to go on a rampage, pulls a fire alarm and all students + staff use the same exit....  



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