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Is free speech suppressed on the internet's main public squares

Yes 56 53.85%
 
No 44 42.31%
 
Undecided 4 3.85%
 
Total:104
ConservagameR on 14 April 2022
JackHandy said:

Every time I see the words "free speech" in this context, I'm always baffled. You don't have the freedom to use someone else's service online to speak your mind. Not on here, not on Twitter, not on anything. Unless you build your own service, you are at the mercy of those hosting whatever service you are using at the time. Why this very simple reality is lost on almost everyone is beyond me. I feel like maybe we should start teaching it in pre-school, so we can once-and-for-all put and end to it lol.

This is correct at it's core. Same as where you work. If someone else takes over, there's no reason to complain. You're not entitled to the old way of things and not entitled to a position. It's now someone else's business and they can run it how they want. I found this out the hard way years ago. Sucks if you like where you work, but that's life. Just gotta move on.



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numberwang on 14 April 2022

Calling this a "once in a lifetime pandemic" shows how much people had moved in a echo chamber because of censorship. Information and consent are a necessity for a functional democracy. The perpetual lockdowns and censorship in China right now prove what an absurd mistake zero-covid policies were and are even though they were promoted by the uniparty and their media in fake "free democracies". I hope that Elon can bring a bit of balance back towards balanced information but I doubt that he is successful. We shouldn't have to rely on "good oligarchs" to save information and consent.



ConservagameR on 14 April 2022
numberwang said:

Calling this a "once in a lifetime pandemic" shows how much people had moved in a echo chamber because of censorship. Information and consent are a necessity for a functional democracy. The perpetual lockdowns and censorship in China right now prove what an absurd mistake zero-covid policies were and are even though they were promoted by the uniparty and their media in fake "free democracies". I hope that Elon can bring a bit of balance back towards balanced information but I doubt that he is successful. We shouldn't have to rely on "good oligarchs" to save information and consent.

Elon tries to help wherever he can, where he deems a vital need, but he's only one man.

Pushes electric cars in China, high speed internet in Ukraine, space travel in America, free speech for the world.

Iron mans all like, where's the rest of the Avengers at?



numberwang on 15 April 2022
RolStoppable said:

It has become a regular occurence in recent years that republicans made laws in states where they have control, laws that are so mindboggingly ridiculous that they push society 50 to 200 years back in time, living up to Trump's slogan of making America great again (i.e. giving more means of oppression back to white people or religion). On the other hand, it's rare to hear of any laws made by democrats that are facepalm-worthy.

Democrats just raised military spending to new heights, refused student loan forgiveness, enabled draconian lockdown laws, pushed the USA close to a nuclear conflict with Russia, created the highest inflation in US history, open borders, pushing censorship for science, supporting regime changes throughout the world, etc. The uniparty has different talking points to dazzle smoothbrains but actual policies are identical.



Torillian on 15 April 2022
ConservagameR said:
Torillian said:

The difficulty here is that I honestly don't think that recommending masks during a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic is some sign that things have gone crazy left politically. What you seem to be telling me is that President Clinton would have been an idiot rather than that he'd be more center. 

What proof or evidence is there that this was a once in a lifetime pandemic? It goes both ways and nobody truly knows, we can only guess.

Masking if it's clearly useful enough isn't so much the problem in a bubble I'd assume, but more so it's the question of how useful the types were, how useful they were for everyone, and why no money for (better masks) if there was a definite need, with all the money that was thrown around?

I would also guess, in a world where every type of new safety measure tends to become the norm, like our new normal, it's not ridiculous to believe that people will assume the next illness, regardless of severity, and so on, will automatically lead to masking up. Again, nobody truly knows.

I wouldn't say Clinton was an idiot overall. He was a relatively decent President in comparison. There was the whole Monica thing which wasn't exactly handled professionally, and not professional to begin with, but that's getting way off topic.

that's true I can't predict the future. When I say once-in-a-lifetime it's because right now for many people around the world (probably all) this is the single largest pandemic in their lifetime. Kind of like when I lived through a 500 year flood, that doesn't mean another 500 year flood won't happen in my lifetime but it's unlikely. 



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Torillian on 15 April 2022
numberwang said:

Calling this a "once in a lifetime pandemic" shows how much people had moved in a echo chamber because of censorship. Information and consent are a necessity for a functional democracy. The perpetual lockdowns and censorship in China right now prove what an absurd mistake zero-covid policies were and are even though they were promoted by the uniparty and their media in fake "free democracies". I hope that Elon can bring a bit of balance back towards balanced information but I doubt that he is successful. We shouldn't have to rely on "good oligarchs" to save information and consent.

Feel free to break the echo chamber and remind me of the other similarly sized pandemic in our lifetimes. 



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Torillian on 15 April 2022
numberwang said:
RolStoppable said:

It has become a regular occurence in recent years that republicans made laws in states where they have control, laws that are so mindboggingly ridiculous that they push society 50 to 200 years back in time, living up to Trump's slogan of making America great again (i.e. giving more means of oppression back to white people or religion). On the other hand, it's rare to hear of any laws made by democrats that are facepalm-worthy.

Democrats just raised military spending to new heights, refused student loan forgiveness, enabled draconian lockdown laws, pushed the USA close to a nuclear conflict with Russia, created the highest inflation in US history, open borders, pushing censorship for science, supporting regime changes throughout the world, etc. The uniparty has different talking points to dazzle smoothbrains but actual policies are identical.

When trying to show that democratic politicians have moved as far to the left as republican politicians have moved to the right the response "they both do the same policies" isn't an argument. We are talking about state level politicians on the republican side putting out laws to reverse marriage equality, disallow trans people from bathrooms, and define treatment of trans kids as child abuse. If you have examples of the democratic state politicians doing things that are crazy left in your mind to counter there examples that would be interesting but I assure you "it's all one uniparty" isn't really a response as these bills are not being passed by democrats. Like Rol said I think a lot of people who argue that the rhetoric is the same on both sides are comparing the twitter left to actual republican politicians with power. 



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numberwang on 15 April 2022

"fascinating transition"

"chilling threat"



ConservagameR on 15 April 2022
Torillian said:
ConservagameR said:

What proof or evidence is there that this was a once in a lifetime pandemic? It goes both ways and nobody truly knows, we can only guess.

Masking if it's clearly useful enough isn't so much the problem in a bubble I'd assume, but more so it's the question of how useful the types were, how useful they were for everyone, and why no money for (better masks) if there was a definite need, with all the money that was thrown around?

I would also guess, in a world where every type of new safety measure tends to become the norm, like our new normal, it's not ridiculous to believe that people will assume the next illness, regardless of severity, and so on, will automatically lead to masking up. Again, nobody truly knows.

I wouldn't say Clinton was an idiot overall. He was a relatively decent President in comparison. There was the whole Monica thing which wasn't exactly handled professionally, and not professional to begin with, but that's getting way off topic.

that's true I can't predict the future. When I say once-in-a-lifetime it's because right now for many people around the world (probably all) this is the single largest pandemic in their lifetime. Kind of like when I lived through a 500 year flood, that doesn't mean another 500 year flood won't happen in my lifetime but it's unlikely. 

Just adding a little balance to the conversation.

Personally I'd say both your point, and Dulfites point, are worthy points made. The odds we have another pandemic like covid is very unlikely. The odds that Democrats 25 years ago would have handled covid differently, and more properly as per those on the right, is quite likely.

Neither of you could show for certain that would be the case, because nobody can be certain of the future, or an untraveled past path.



ConservagameR on 15 April 2022
RolStoppable said:
ConservagameR said:

In the same sense, in America, as per the liberals, everything that doesn't fit what the Dems are doing or saying, is not even conservative, but automatically racist or Nazi. A growing portion of both sides is getting more radical.

Bill Maher, who's been extremely against Trump and the conservatives over the past 4 or so years, has been saying recently the center hasn't changed much, but the left has gone crazy for some time and is way out to left field. He also thinks the right has shifted more right, mostly due to Trump since 2016.

My point is pretty simple. If someone like Maher is saying the left has gone way too far left, Dulfites point about past Democrats (like President Clinton) reacting less harshly to a covid type scenario would seem reasonably likely. How exactly they would've reacted obviously can't be known for certain.

Dulfite, I see the point you're trying to make beyond covid, but Elon hasn't taken over Twitter just yet. No need to end up blue in the face. A virtue, patience is.

It's important to properly determine what the political left and the political right actually are in the USA. I wouldn't make that call by looking at what extremists on either side do or demand, but rather what the politicians in charge of the democrats and republicans actually do, namely the bills and laws they push for and through.

It has become a regular occurence in recent years that republicans made laws in states where they have control, laws that are so mindboggingly ridiculous that they push society 50 to 200 years back in time, living up to Trump's slogan of making America great again (i.e. giving more means of oppression back to white people or religion). On the other hand, it's rare to hear of any laws made by democrats that are facepalm-worthy.

I've only ever watched a few videos of Maher, but I am still quite sure that the left that he is complaining about is not the left that is making the laws, but rather the vocal minority which is indeed crazy.

Don't the people vote for the politicians though? Because if they don't, well, let's not go there.

The system is also set up so the minority shouldn't get ignored and crushed and as you stated, it's the Republicans who try and crush the minorities, not the Democrats. This goes along with the idea that conservatives are more so against democracy and would rather simply have few rulers with slaves.

So if the crazy left as you agree, is a vocal minority, it would then stand to reason, that the Democrat politicians are actually listening and setting their agenda at least partially to that crazy minorities liking. Otherwise the Democrat politicians are purposely ignoring their voters, the poor minority, which would go against the idea that the liberals are the one's hardcore for a just democracy.

I'm not saying conservatives are right and liberals are wrong, I'm just pointing out that both sides have their flaws, which they tend to like to ignore.

Last edited by ConservagameR - on 15 April 2022