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Forums - Politics Discussion - Elon Musk acquires a 9 percent stake in Twitter

 

Is free speech suppressed on the internet's main public squares

Yes 32 52.46%
 
No 27 44.26%
 
Undecided 2 3.28%
 
Total:61
farlaff said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

I actually considered him a Reaganite, not a modern right winger, but still a conservative rather than any modern democrat.

His recent support of the ridiculous action by the truckers in Canada makes feel the same way about him. In the past, I thought he was more in a kind of a middle ground, but not anymore.

5-10 years ago, and certainly in the 90's (as I say Musk is more of a 90's democrat), the main stream democratic party would have never said people should have to wear masks or get vaccines for something that kills less than 1% of the people that have symptoms in the first place, let alone those that don't exibit any symptoms and therefore don't get tested. The right hasn't moved further right, nor has the middle moved further right, but the left has gone waaaay left in America in a ridiculously short time. And not just on Covid. 



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Well, there may yet be a slight glimmer of hope for those who demand that their God-given right to spread dangerous bullshit on social media be honored.

Of course, I doubt this will actually happen, and Musk is probably just pulling another stunt of some kind. He is a very weird man with mostly weird ideas (EVs are a better alternative to ICEVs—ending car dependency altogether would be better—and Tesla did help kickstart the EV renaissance). Of course, billionaires tend to be weird people in general, but that's probably the nicest thing I could say about them and I'll leave it at that.



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In accordance to the VGC forum rules, §8.5, I hereby exercise my right to demand to be left alone regarding the subject of the effects of the pandemic on video game sales (i.e., "COVID bump").

Jumpin said:


Neoliberalism and Musk are no friend of the right-wing in the US, who generally oppose government spending of all sorts. Musk is also no friend of the left, as he lobbies against unions and consumer rights - like he did when he lobbied against the rebate for electric vehicles supplied by union labour - because big auto (like Ford) are unionized and Tesla isn't.

@bolded: I don't get this statement, since Neoliberalism is famously a right-winged movement, that has it's roots back somewhere in the 60's but became quite famous with Thatcher, a famous representative of the right (the real right, not this thing people are calling "right" nowadays, which should actually be called savagery or anything like it).



Dulfite said:
farlaff said:

His recent support of the ridiculous action by the truckers in Canada makes feel the same way about him. In the past, I thought he was more in a kind of a middle ground, but not anymore.

5-10 years ago, and certainly in the 90's (as I say Musk is more of a 90's democrat), the main stream democratic party would have never said people should have to wear masks or get vaccines for something that kills less than 1% of the people that have symptoms in the first place, let alone those that don't exibit any symptoms and therefore don't get tested. The right hasn't moved further right, nor has the middle moved further right, but the left has gone waaaay left in America in a ridiculously short time. And not just on Covid. 

Do you have any way to back up this claim that in the face of a woldwide generation defining pandemic that kills 10 times what we usually see from something like the more endemic flu would have been met by complete apathy (honestly they wouldn't have even said people should wear masks?) by the democrat party 5 years ago? 

Last edited by Torillian - on 14 April 2022

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Dulfite said:
farlaff said:

His recent support of the ridiculous action by the truckers in Canada makes feel the same way about him. In the past, I thought he was more in a kind of a middle ground, but not anymore.

5-10 years ago, and certainly in the 90's (as I say Musk is more of a 90's democrat), the main stream democratic party would have never said people should have to wear masks or get vaccines for something that kills less than 1% of the people that have symptoms in the first place, let alone those that don't exibit any symptoms and therefore don't get tested. The right hasn't moved further right, nor has the middle moved further right, but the left has gone waaaay left in America in a ridiculously short time. And not just on Covid. 

I can see you are against mask mandates from your post, so I take the 6.2 MILLION people that died from Covid are like, what, a simple nuisance? But, really? I could have listened to that argument about two years ago and payed attention to it, but science has proved time and again that masks were and are not only effective against spreading the disease, but also a not invasive way to help people get back into society. Every single one that has half a brain cell and can read knows that by now, so I would say that it has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with a party moving to the left, doesn't matter to what degree. 

Also, what is the actual problem with these people and the mask hatred? I got an infection from an injury on my face from using masks too much some 2 months ago and I would do it again in a heartbeat if that meant I would protect myself AND a fellow human by doing so. And I am not even going to stress myself about the vaccine part.

Finally, do you really think that "the right hasn't moved further right"? For real??? Can you actually compare Reagan, the Bushes, McCain, in the US, or Gorbachev, in Russia, proper representatives of the classical right-wing, to fascist/bigot/nazis such as Trump and Putin? AND say the right has not moved further to the right? Oh my goodness! (Well, I was told in my childhood that being able to read such things is better than being blind.)



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Torillian said:
Dulfite said:

5-10 years ago, and certainly in the 90's (as I say Musk is more of a 90's democrat), the main stream democratic party would have never said people should have to wear masks or get vaccines for something that kills less than 1% of the people that have symptoms in the first place, let alone those that don't exibit any symptoms and therefore don't get tested. The right hasn't moved further right, nor has the middle moved further right, but the left has gone waaaay left in America in a ridiculously short time. And not just on Covid. 

Do you have any way to back up this claim that in the face of a woldwide generation defining pandemic that kills 10 times what we usually see from something like the more endemic flu would have been met by complete apathy (honestly they wouldn't have even said people should wear masks?) by the democrat party 5 years ago? 

I should hope the answer to your questioning comes. See above my comment, pretty much in the same sense.



Dulfite said:
farlaff said:

His recent support of the ridiculous action by the truckers in Canada makes feel the same way about him. In the past, I thought he was more in a kind of a middle ground, but not anymore.

5-10 years ago, and certainly in the 90's (as I say Musk is more of a 90's democrat), the main stream democratic party would have never said people should have to wear masks or get vaccines for something that kills less than 1% of the people that have symptoms in the first place, let alone those that don't exibit any symptoms and therefore don't get tested. The right hasn't moved further right, nor has the middle moved further right, but the left has gone waaaay left in America in a ridiculously short time. And not just on Covid. 

The same COVID-19 measures you speak of have been issued by the conservative governments in Europe (for example, in Austria and Germany), so there's nothing inherently left about these measures. The resistance against COVID-19 measures has been strongly supported by the far-right political parties in Europe, so that's the spot where the USA's republican party is on the political spectrum by now.

Over the years the republican party has moved more and more to the right which is why its policies and stances on issues have become more closely aligned with the interests of the far-right parties in Europe and distanced themselves from the conservative parties in Europe. Unsurprisingly, what used to be a gentle gradual shift of the republican party has been turned into a rapid hard change of course with Trump where a lot of people rallied behind him and continue to support him because he showed that one can win elections without having to wear a mask of a conservative stance anymore.

As Torillian said, the events of January 6th 2021 and how they've been responded to sum up pretty well what the modern republican party is.

Lastly, from a European perspective, Biden isn't a left politician. He's considered a conservative, which isn't surprising, because his policies and stances most closely match up with the behavior of conservative political parties in Europe. But from the American republican perspective, everything a democrat does must be left, therefore anything a republican must support has to be different from what a democrat is for. This is how the republican party got pushed more and more to the right over the past three decades or so, and that's how it ended up in its current position. The saving grace of the republican party is what is effectively a two-party-system in the USA, because otherwise the majority of people would be able to easily tell where republicans really stand instead of the current binary format where the republicans are still largely recognized as plain right.



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RolStoppable said:
Dulfite said:

5-10 years ago, and certainly in the 90's (as I say Musk is more of a 90's democrat), the main stream democratic party would have never said people should have to wear masks or get vaccines for something that kills less than 1% of the people that have symptoms in the first place, let alone those that don't exibit any symptoms and therefore don't get tested. The right hasn't moved further right, nor has the middle moved further right, but the left has gone waaaay left in America in a ridiculously short time. And not just on Covid. 

The same COVID-19 measures you speak of have been issued by the conservative governments in Europe (for example, in Austria and Germany), so there's nothing inherently left about these measures. The resistance against COVID-19 measures has been strongly supported by the far-right political parties in Europe, so that's the spot where the USA's republican party is on the political spectrum by now.

Over the years the republican party has moved more and more to the right which is why its policies and stances on issues have become more closely aligned with the interests of the far-right parties in Europe and distanced themselves from the conservative parties in Europe. Unsurprisingly, what used to be a gentle gradual shift of the republican party has been turned into a rapid hard change of course with Trump where a lot of people rallied behind him and continue to support him because he showed that one can win elections without having to wear a mask of a conservative stance anymore.

As Torillian said, the events of January 6th 2021 and how they've been responded to sum up pretty well what the modern republican party is.

Lastly, from a European perspective, Biden isn't a left politician. He's considered a conservative, which isn't surprising, because his policies and stances most closely match up with the behavior of conservative political parties in Europe. But from the American republican perspective, everything a democrat does must be left, therefore anything a republican must support has to be different from what a democrat is for. This is how the republican party got pushed more and more to the right over the past three decades or so, and that's how it ended up in its current position. The saving grace of the republican party is what is effectively a two-party-system in the USA, because otherwise the majority of people would be able to easily tell where republicans really stand instead of the current binary format where the republicans are still largely recognized as plain right.

In the same sense, in America, as per the liberals, everything that doesn't fit what the Dems are doing or saying, is not even conservative, but automatically racist or Nazi. A growing portion of both sides is getting more radical.

Bill Maher, who's been extremely against Trump and the conservatives over the past 4 or so years, has been saying recently the center hasn't changed much, but the left has gone crazy for some time and is way out to left field. He also thinks the right has shifted more right, mostly due to Trump since 2016.

My point is pretty simple. If someone like Maher is saying the left has gone way too far left, Dulfites point about past Democrats (like President Clinton) reacting less harshly to a covid type scenario would seem reasonably likely. How exactly they would've reacted obviously can't be known for certain.

Dulfite, I see the point you're trying to make beyond covid, but Elon hasn't taken over Twitter just yet. No need to end up blue in the face. A virtue, patience is.



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ConservagameR said:
RolStoppable said:

The same COVID-19 measures you speak of have been issued by the conservative governments in Europe (for example, in Austria and Germany), so there's nothing inherently left about these measures. The resistance against COVID-19 measures has been strongly supported by the far-right political parties in Europe, so that's the spot where the USA's republican party is on the political spectrum by now.

Over the years the republican party has moved more and more to the right which is why its policies and stances on issues have become more closely aligned with the interests of the far-right parties in Europe and distanced themselves from the conservative parties in Europe. Unsurprisingly, what used to be a gentle gradual shift of the republican party has been turned into a rapid hard change of course with Trump where a lot of people rallied behind him and continue to support him because he showed that one can win elections without having to wear a mask of a conservative stance anymore.

As Torillian said, the events of January 6th 2021 and how they've been responded to sum up pretty well what the modern republican party is.

Lastly, from a European perspective, Biden isn't a left politician. He's considered a conservative, which isn't surprising, because his policies and stances most closely match up with the behavior of conservative political parties in Europe. But from the American republican perspective, everything a democrat does must be left, therefore anything a republican must support has to be different from what a democrat is for. This is how the republican party got pushed more and more to the right over the past three decades or so, and that's how it ended up in its current position. The saving grace of the republican party is what is effectively a two-party-system in the USA, because otherwise the majority of people would be able to easily tell where republicans really stand instead of the current binary format where the republicans are still largely recognized as plain right.

In the same sense, in America, as per the liberals, everything that doesn't fit what the Dems are doing or saying, is not even conservative, but automatically racist or Nazi. A growing portion of both sides is getting more radical.

Bill Maher, who's been extremely against Trump and the conservatives over the past 4 or so years, has been saying recently the center hasn't changed much, but the left has gone crazy for some time and is way out to left field. He also thinks the right has shifted more right, mostly due to Trump since 2016.

My point is pretty simple. If someone like Maher is saying the left has gone way too far left, Dulfites point about past Democrats (like President Clinton) reacting less harshly to a covid type scenario would seem reasonably likely. How exactly they would've reacted obviously can't be known for certain.

Dulfite, I see the point you're trying to make beyond covid, but Elon hasn't taken over Twitter just yet. No need to end up blue in the face. A virtue, patience is.

The difficulty here is that I honestly don't think that recommending masks during a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic is some sign that things have gone crazy left politically. What you seem to be telling me is that President Clinton would have been an idiot rather than that he'd be more center. 



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