Freedom. That's all you need to know.

If humans of the last thousands of years wouldn't have fought for it and just agreed to what their oppressors wanted, we would have a much worse planet to live on.

Really nothing crazy not to understand.

If you aren't a Putin operative, then please think about the long-term ramifications of what you suggest.

Appeasement NEVER works. It only leads to greater wars with even more loss of life. If we appease Putin now and let him control many of the areas he has taken control of, there will be a "cleansing" of those areas. We already have evidence of them wanting to do public executions to make the public in those areas submit to him, he has himself said dissidents need to be swatted away like flies within his own country, how much more would he be willing to do that to Ukrainians? Especially people from groups he hates.

If we appease him now, many more civilians will die, and he will then just do this all over again after his military has recovered in a few years and try to take more. He invaded roughly 8 years ago to take land and we appeased him then by not having a war, then he does it a second time. There is literally NO evidence that he will stop suddenly trying to take more territory and ALL the evidence suggests he will keep doing this perpetually. Please don't tell me you honestly believe Putin will just stop invading places even if he were to capture all the old Soviet States? He would be on a power trip and then invade non-former USSR states to expand even more, and the West would be a whole lot less-advantaged at that point to stop him.

If Putin invaded Australia every 5-10 years, taking more territory each time, massacring more of your country-men each time, would you want to just keep appeasing him and letting him have more for some temporary peace before he does it again, or would you want to stand and fight for what's right and put an end to his attack on your nation once and for all, saving countless lives in the generations to come and ensuring more freedom for people?

I encourage anyone in this thread that thinks letting people live under tyrants is worse than the deaths caused by wars to watch The Man in the High Castle on Amazon Prime.

It feels odd that this needed explaining.

You know which countries have actual legit security concerns? Every damn smaller country next to Russia. And this is all because of Russian regime and Putin. They've shown they can't be trusted at all, even if Ukraine was willing to compromise and give them their little finger, Putin will bite their hand off sooner or later.

What about Finland, Sweden and Estonia then? Should we give up our freedom and everthing we've built just because Putin wants it? Gtfo.. 

You said you live in Australia so maybe you just don't understand what's at stake here but it doesn't excuse your pro-Russia propaganda bullshit.

Bullshits, if Russia were truly concerned they would have started negotiation before invading, they didn't. They don't fear NATO at their door, they fear Europeans life style at there door. They fear that the 11 millions Russian with close ties to Ukrainians start realizing how much crappier it is in Russia. That's why there can't be good faith negotiation from Russia, that's why they didn't try to resolve the issue peacefully, they only want Ukraine to be more miserable than Russia so they can keep their propaganda working in the long run.

What country hasn't been conquered and taken over? Aborigines got it bad, as did native americans in the usa. But that was a dumb analogy. 

Which part of "negotiating with someone that wants to take away your freedom, identity and pretty much the life as you know it and possibly even murder you is a bad idea" you didn't understand?

I'm not a fan of the idea that the Ukranians should just stop resisting and accept Putin's terms in order to avoid further bloodshed, as it puts the blame of loss of life and overall destruction on Ukraine when it should be on Russia. It was Russia that choose war, not Ukraine. Using this kind of logic, no nation should ever choose to defend against a more powerful foe as it most certainly would lead to a lot of death and destruction.


But let's say that Ukraine does accept Putin's terms. Yes, it would mean that the current war comes to an end. But then what? The Ukrainians would lose their sovereignty and end up in Russia's sphere of influence. Becoming a member of Nato or the European Union would be impossible. Heck, any kind of approach towards the west would be difficult for Ukraine, and if Russia feels like Ukraine is behaving in a way that doesn't favour them they could simply choose to invade again.
Ukraine surrendering will have longterm consequences for the country and its people. That's something you have to keep in mind when you ask yourself why they're fighting so hard.

They are happy because that is all they know. A country who had freedom and was taken over by the USSR or has tasted freedom post USSR knows exactly how much better life can be.

The reason it is better because a life that has no freedom isn't a life at all. You have to live it to experience it and understand it.

I noted a few people saying you are from Australia.  Well I live here now too. I come here because of the USSR oppression. Australia is a fucking holiday in comparison. The amount of people here that whinge about the smallest shit is laughable. I mean you know the country is good when you can go on a life time of dole payments. People complain they don't have enough money on the dole yet they don't want to work for it to get more money.  In other countries welfare does not last forever. You don't work you die/fight on the street.