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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

SecondWar on 24 February 2023

I want to link to this article to highlight the sheer oddity of the position of some activist who campaign for peace, although often only with apparent naivety or ulterior motives

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/24/leaders-of-german-left-condemn-peace-rally-over-far-right-involvement

It contains a quote from the march organiser from before the invasion, saying this:
Days before the invasion, Wagenknecht portrayed the threat as an invention of western media, telling the broadcaster ARD: “We can be happy that Putin isn’t what he is portrayed to be, namely a crazy Russian nationalist who gets high on moving borders. If that were so, negotiations would probably be pointless.”

So it seems they've just adapted their position to pander to Putin. It why why I see people calling for peace and negotiations I ask 'Ok, but peace at what cost'. Because despite Russia being the recognised aggressor, these people always seem to put the onus on Ukraine to placate Russia. Why never the other way around? Often the reply is along the lines of 'peace is better than war'. Ok, so Ukraine annexed by Russia and subject to ethnic cleansing? Not much of a peace for those abandoned to Putin, is it.

It also always baffles me that they give Putin the benefit of the doubt in spite of all he's done.



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Ryuu96 on 24 February 2023

Between this and military analysts/military sources inside of UK & USA stating that Russia's big early 2023 "offensive" started weeks ago and it all consists of is throwing more bodies at the frontlines, at the cost of thousands of lives for the tiniest of gains, it seems as though Russia has lost nearly all offensive capability.

Now is the time to send Ukraine everything they need.



Ryuu96 on 24 February 2023

A number of Russian state-controlled media outlets have been instructed not to quote statements made by the founder of Russia's Wagner mercenary group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, according to a report.

Independent outlet Verstka, citing sources from the Kremlin-backed media and the Russian defence ministry, reports that Russian state journalists have been ordered not to quote Prigozhin unless absolutely necessary, Meduza writes.

Russian authorities have also prepared a "media smear campaign" against Prigozhin, the outlet says, but have decided not to launch it for the time being.

One source said:
In a meeting this week, the higher-ups repeated to us that the block on Prigozhin that we put in place in January remains in effect.

We're banned from mentioning him unless it's absolutely necessary, we're banned from quoting him, except in cases where he's the first person to report news about successes on the front line. For example, if they captured Soledar or reached the outskirts of Bakhmut.

Russia-Ukraine War Live: First Polish Tanks Arrive in Ukraine; Nato Dismisses China’s Intervention on Peace Talks

Prigozhin is really pushing his luck.



Ryuu96 on 24 February 2023



Ryuu96 on 24 February 2023

Defence Minister Pistorius has decided to hand over another four #Kampfpanzer #Leopard2 A6 from Bundeswehr stocks to the #Ukraine. This increases the number of tanks delivered from 14 to 18 & together with Portugal & Sweden provides a total of one battalion.

It was with great pleasure that we welcomed Sweden's decision to supply #Leopard2 #Kampfpanzern. Together with our partners Sweden and Portugal, we support Ukraine in its struggle for freedom and sovereignty.

Battalion = 31 so that's 18 from Germany, 3 from Portugal and 10 from Sweden.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 24 February 2023

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Ryuu96 on 24 February 2023



Ryuu96 on 24 February 2023



Ryuu96 on 24 February 2023

According to Oryx that is now.

  •  14 Leopard 2A4s
  •  14 Challenger 2s
  • 8 Leopard 2A4s
  •  8 Leopard 2A4s
  •  10 Leopard 2A4s
  •  18 Leopard 2A6s
  •  3 Leopard 2A6s
  •  10 Strv 122s
  •  31 M1 Abrams

31 Abrams + 14 Challenger 2s + 71 Leopard 2s = 116 Western MBTs.

Strv = Upgraded Leopard 2.



Barozi on 24 February 2023
Ryuu96 said:

According to Oryx that is now.

  •  14 Leopard 2A4s
  •  14 Challenger 2s
  • 8 Leopard 2A4s
  •  8 Leopard 2A4s
  •  10 Leopard 2A4s
  •  18 Leopard 2A6s
  •  3 Leopard 2A6s
  •  10 Strv 122s
  •  31 M1 Abrams

31 Abrams + 14 Challenger 2s + 71 Leopard 2s = 116 Western MBTs.

Strv = Upgraded Leopard 2.

I thought Spain only confirmed 6? Also the three tanks from Finland are missing.



Ryuu96 on 24 February 2023
Barozi said:
Ryuu96 said:

According to Oryx that is now.

  •  14 Leopard 2A4s
  •  14 Challenger 2s
  • 8 Leopard 2A4s
  •  8 Leopard 2A4s
  •  10 Leopard 2A4s
  •  18 Leopard 2A6s
  •  3 Leopard 2A6s
  •  10 Strv 122s
  •  31 M1 Abrams

31 Abrams + 14 Challenger 2s + 71 Leopard 2s = 116 Western MBTs.

Strv = Upgraded Leopard 2.

I thought Spain only confirmed 6? Also the three tanks from Finland are missing.

That was my bad, I didn't see they put the Finland tanks in another section but Tbf these aren't tanks with a cannon, they only have a machine gun and are specifically for mine clearing (still important though!).

Oryx is using this: Spain Eyes Up to 10 Leopard Tanks for Ukraine, PM Says | Reuters