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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

KiigelHeart said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/republican-opposition-to-helping-ukraine-grows-wsj-poll-finds-11667467802

Another article and I find this worrying. Today 48% of republicans think US is doing too much to help Ukraine. The fuck is this 'new breed' of republicans? Hard to imagine this would've been the case 10-20 years ago. It's not a communist Soviet Union spreading their infuence but a facists regime so it's alright to them? 

I don't get this argument that war in Ukraine is just a local conflict in Eastern Europe and it's no business of US. A very short-sighted view of populism I'd say. US doesn't exist in a vaccuum. If Russia was to win it would have consequences for US too, their position as the greatest superpower would eventually start shaking. I mean, US didn't join WW2 just for the fun of it.

And think about how much money US has spent on their military since Cold War? Most of it because of Russia. Now there's a chance to weaken/beat them with a minimal cost, without even sending own troops to die. Also compared to money US poured in Afganistan, aid to Ukraine is peanuts. Unlike Afganistan, war in Ukraine has a high chance to be succesful.

Ok rant over. 

A lot of Republicans today would love if America was run like Russia, not so much the pathetic army aspect but culturally, the "anti-woke" "strongman" image that Russia so desperately tries to convey which in Russia just means a bunch of sexism/racism. Another chunk will say that anything the Dems do is bad, Dems support Ukraine = Supporting Ukraine is bad.

Some also will believe that Ukraine is the main thing to blame for the current economic situation and simply don't care about Ukraine, they will think that stopping aid to Ukraine will suddenly hugely improve things, it won't. Ukraine isn't going to surrender no matter what and rightfully so, the best way to relieve the economic pressure that this war is causing is by ending it faster, we end it faster by giving Ukraine everything they need to push Russia out.

But Ukraine is only one of many factors for the current economic situation.

I'm still not worried though, for starters, I don't believe there are enough psychopaths like MTG in Congress, I think there's enough Republicans still who will side with Ukraine aid, if Dems lose House/Senate it will only be by a very small amount and public support is still in Ukraine's favour overall. We've already had top ranking Republicans come out in support of Ukraine; I hope they would know more what is at stake than the general public.

Also, based on everything I've read, Biden does not need congressional approval for Lend-Lease after it's signed into law, which it has been, it allows him to send stuff without going through the usual channels (House/Senate) and has yet to be used, so if the worst comes and House/Senate start blocking aid, we still have Lend-Lease as a backup.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 04 November 2022

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Ok, let's talk about Lend-Lease. I see that this question still causes confusion and various speculations, so I will try to put everything on the shelves.

Lend-Lease is only one of the programs under which Ukraine can receive American weapons - but on rent or loan. In other words, the provided weapons will then either have to be paid for or returned.

On the other hand, under the rest of the programs, weapons for the Armed Forces are provided free of charge and for unlimited use. After receiving it, it fully becomes the property of Ukraine. And as long as Congress appropriates money for these programs, the US will use them.

Lend-Lease is a plan B in case Congress does not approve new financing for Kyiv. Joe Biden promises to support Ukraine as long as necessary - and this is where the trump card of Lend-Lease can come in handy.

To provide weapons under this program, the White House will not have to ask Congress for money again and wait for it to be approved. This is the simplified and accelerated procedure. And what exactly to provide will be decided by the US administration.

-

Basically, the reason why Lend-Lease hasn't started yet is because it's the backup option in case Republicans win House/Senate and decide to be lunatics and block aid to Ukraine, Biden through Lend-Lease doesn't need Congress, the only downside is it is a loan, Ukraine has to either pay it back eventually or return it while the current Congress aid, they don't.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 04 November 2022

Whenever I see Trumpists talk, they always remind me of the drunkest anti-vaxxers out of an East German inbreeding convention.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

"Belarusian border guards accused Ukraine in provocation at the border with armoured vehicle. Video published shows Ukrainian APC at Ukrainian side of the border"

https://t.me/radiomirby/46791

lol, so it ok to let Russia shoot rockets from your ground to Ukraine but Ukraine isn't allowed to drive on their own ground close to yours with one single "harmless" armoured vehicle while they are at war? Mkay... 



Ryuu96 said:

A lot of Republicans today would love if America was run like Russia, not so much the pathetic army aspect but culturally, the "anti-woke" "strongman" image that Russia so desperately tries to convey which in Russia just means a bunch of sexism/racism. Another chunk will say that anything the Dems do is bad, Dems support Ukraine = Supporting Ukraine is bad.

Some also will believe that Ukraine is the main thing to blame for the current economic situation and simply don't care about Ukraine, they will think that stopping aid to Ukraine will suddenly hugely improve things, it won't. Ukraine isn't going to surrender no matter what and rightfully so, the best way to relieve the economic pressure that this war is causing is by ending it faster, we end it faster by giving Ukraine everything they need to push Russia out.

But Ukraine is only one of many factors for the current economic situation.

I'm still not worried though, for starters, I don't believe there are enough psychopaths like MTG in Congress, I think there's enough Republicans still who will side with Ukraine aid, if Dems lose House/Senate it will only be by a very small amount and public support is still in Ukraine's favour overall. We've already had top ranking Republicans come out in support of Ukraine; I hope they would know more what is at stake than the general public.

Also, based on everything I've read, Biden does not need congressional approval for Lend-Lease after it's signed into law, which it has been, it allows him to send stuff without going through the usual channels (House/Senate) and has yet to be used, so if the worst comes and House/Senate start blocking aid, we still have Lend-Lease as a backup.

A reminder, once again, that CPAC featured the worst European dictator after Putin and Lukashenko as a keynote speaker at CPAC in Texas this year. Putin has also convinced them that Russia is a "Christian" nation, in part due to the fact that Patriarch Kirill is a willing collaborator with Putin. 



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Another day of huge losses.





Ryuu96 said:

A lot of Republicans today would love if America was run like Russia, not so much the pathetic army aspect but culturally, the "anti-woke" "strongman" image that Russia so desperately tries to convey which in Russia just means a bunch of sexism/racism. Another chunk will say that anything the Dems do is bad, Dems support Ukraine = Supporting Ukraine is bad.

Some also will believe that Ukraine is the main thing to blame for the current economic situation and simply don't care about Ukraine, they will think that stopping aid to Ukraine will suddenly hugely improve things, it won't. Ukraine isn't going to surrender no matter what and rightfully so, the best way to relieve the economic pressure that this war is causing is by ending it faster, we end it faster by giving Ukraine everything they need to push Russia out.

But Ukraine is only one of many factors for the current economic situation.

I'm still not worried though, for starters, I don't believe there are enough psychopaths like MTG in Congress, I think there's enough Republicans still who will side with Ukraine aid, if Dems lose House/Senate it will only be by a very small amount and public support is still in Ukraine's favour overall. We've already had top ranking Republicans come out in support of Ukraine; I hope they would know more what is at stake than the general public.

Also, based on everything I've read, Biden does not need congressional approval for Lend-Lease after it's signed into law, which it has been, it allows him to send stuff without going through the usual channels (House/Senate) and has yet to be used, so if the worst comes and House/Senate start blocking aid, we still have Lend-Lease as a backup.

Also even in the case Democrats loose both the House and senate next week, it will enter a lame duck period which Biden and democrats may use to sign into law new, even outrageously high, amount for Ukraine supports. 

Republicans will then need to pass new resolutions to undo those, the problems is that those resolutions will be far from popular, will be subject to filibuster from democrats and also presidential veto.