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Forums - Sony Discussion - GT7 state of play 2nd feb (30 min deep dive)

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I was surprised with the choice of music in the presentation. It was mainly slow/classical music, and I don't know if that is effective when your aim is to make a new generation of players interested in cars.

The Cafe Mode seems to be the main feature aimed at new players.
Having to use specific cars to clear challenges is a good incentive to make people use different cards than they normally would. But I don't see the education of the history of cars to be something that a younger generation will appreciate. I hope I'm wrong, but chances are they'll just find it a boring obstacle in the way of driving/racing.

I think introducing new modes that focus on gameplay may be a better way to get a broader audience interested.

SvennoJ said:

how to manage tire wear

I still remember in GT 3 I managed to improve my time a lot in an endurance race by driving with completely worn out tires for a number of laps before doing pit stops.
But that was mainly because I was using the F1 car, that can manage those situations better than any other car, I think, since it's all about full break and acceleration.



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Hiku said:

I was surprised with the choice of music in the presentation. It was mainly slow/classical music, and I don't know if that is effective when your aim is to make a new generation of players interested in cars.

The Cafe Mode seems to be the main feature aimed at new players.
Having to use specific cars to clear challenges is a good incentive to make people use different cards than they normally would. But I don't see the education of the history of cars to be something that a younger generation will appreciate. I hope I'm wrong, but chances are they'll just find it a boring obstacle in the way of driving/racing.

I think introducing new modes that focus on gameplay may be a better way to get a broader audience interested.

SvennoJ said:

how to manage tire wear

I still remember in GT 3 I managed to improve my time a lot in an endurance race by driving with completely worn out tires for a number of laps before doing pit stops.
But that was mainly because I was using the F1 car, that can manage those situations better than any other car, I think, since it's all about full break and acceleration.

The trick is to find the balance with the other players in the room.

A lot of races in GT Sport require you to use two compounds during the race, enforcing a pit stop. (Before they allowed no stop races where it was all about conserving fuel to make it, but the focus shifted to tire choice and pit strategy)

When you start at the back it's better to start on the slower compound and use slipstream to keep up. Then switch to the faster compound while the car is already lighter (less fuel) to make optimum use of them with less weight wearing them out.
However if you start at the front you want to stay at the front, so start on the faster compound, take smooth lines, avoid the rear breaking out, avoid spinning the wheels, avoid kerbs where possible to minimize tire wear and get them to last as long as possible.

Some people are really good at managing tires (easier with a wheel) and in some races the fastest players only do 1 lap on the slower (more durable) compound and either pit in lap 1 or right before the last lap. I don't use a wheel but can still do more laps on the less durable faster compound than the hard tires. It's a simple calculation in the end, switch when your lap times match what you can achieve with the other compound in their most worn out state.

No stop fuel saving races were a lot of fun too btw. Conserve fuel either by leaning the fuel mixture or by short shifting and coasting into corners. Shifting early saves a lot of fuel, keep the rpms down and some cars like the Corvette actually have better torque at lower rpms, so it's actually faster to shift earlier.

None of this is mentioned anywhere in GT Sport. The fuel lean mixture in race menu isn't even explained anywhere. Nor is the brake balance you can change on the fly which you can use to optimize corner entry, but also to spread tire wear evenly. If the front tires wear faster in a certain car, put the brake balance to the rear to put more pressure and wear on them during braking. However that changes the balance of the car entering the corner and you might have more understeer going into a corner.

The real pros change the brake balance on the fly, like shifting gears. Too much for me, I leave brake balance on neutral most of the time, rarely change it, and only to even out tire wear. Yet the fastest players will figure out the best brake balance for every corner!


Anyway I was surprised at the choice of music and presenters as well. Maybe this was more focused on getting the old crowd back. It's not that targeted at me either, the whole history of cars, seen it many times now, never was that interested. Racing school, racing techniques is what I'm interested in.

This is my racing 'bible'
https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/
Those are the rules I race by in GT Sport, problem is, many people have a different interpretation of what racing should look like.

And I'll carry those rules over to GT7 as again I didn't see anything about collision physics. GT Sport always claimed to be a non contact sport, so it makes sense collision are an after thought. However they happen all the time now without a penalty system and with lag you get weird comedy physics.

This is draft bumping with lag (a player disconnected causing a little lag spike)


And this was with me and the car behind having a good connection. Imagine lag in corners with 2 cars rubbing, it just doesn't work in today's internet environment.

Hopefully GT7 also improved on the net code, lag detection and better smoothing / prediction. Sometimes you have cars jumping all over the track or moving stop motion style or wobbling sideways back and forth. Very distracting and big cause of accidents.



DonFerrari said:
BraLoD said:

The SoP was great, it's really exciting to see the amount of passion they put in everything about the game, how they explained the systems and features with such care was amazing, sometimes it even felt like I was being given a small lecture to be able to properly understand what they were trying to pass on within the game xD

But... the replays definitely had some issues, almost all of the time they were shown, normal ones and the new music ones, all had several "quick freezes" which were likely big frame drops.

I'll be waiting for DF take on it, but it definitely breaks a lot of the fluidity, not good, at all.

I`m not really bothered with a decrease in framerate count or even framedrops for replay mode if used to make it look even better since well I`m not playing at that moment =p

But yes I saw several glitches here and there.

I mean, we play the game not the replays, but replays have been really good on GT and I do enjoy them quite a lot, so I definitely don't want big performance spikes getting in the way when I'm on it.

There were also some ugly pop-ins, can't remember if it was during replays or gameplay tho, but I honestly don't think those will be getting on the game on day 1.

I'll likely not get it on PS4 so it might take a good while until I'll be finally getting my hands on it, tho.

I'm pretty sure performance and experience will be quite a lot better on PS5 due to the ssd, so PS5 it is.



I must say one thing about graphics talk here: as long as I can clearly see the movement/ direction of the track, stuff like pop-in is like a non-factor for me.

I use Dirt 5 here as an example: some tracks are just so bad at telling the player where they should be going. Especially the horrid ice tracks with the consistent colour changing barriers. Like I need to actively stare at the map to even be competitive against AI.

Not that I think graphical improvements are.not important: they are. Just my 2 cents on certain stuff. :D



BraLoD said:
DonFerrari said:

I`m not really bothered with a decrease in framerate count or even framedrops for replay mode if used to make it look even better since well I`m not playing at that moment =p

But yes I saw several glitches here and there.

I mean, we play the game not the replays, but replays have been really good on GT and I do enjoy them quite a lot, so I definitely don't want big performance spikes getting in the way when I'm on it.

There were also some ugly pop-ins, can't remember if it was during replays or gameplay tho, but I honestly don't think those will be getting on the game on day 1.

I'll likely not get it on PS4 so it might take a good while until I'll be finally getting my hands on it, tho.

I'm pretty sure performance and experience will be quite a lot better on PS5 due to the ssd, so PS5 it is.

I don`t think it will be worse than GTS in any visible mean so performance shouldn`t be an issue.

On graphic things, one thing I noticed was that on the replay the flowers were blurred by the speed on the background, but if you looked through the window they were standing still.



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Pardon my ignorance, I don't play this genre. I'm curious for those that really love this genre and are unbiased, how does this hold up to the Forza game from 2021?

My racing knowledge is almost entirely made up of Mariokart and Diddy Kong Racing lol. Some random need for speed game on the GameCube as well.



Dulfite said:

Pardon my ignorance, I don't play this genre. I'm curious for those that really love this genre and are unbiased, how does this hold up to the Forza game from 2021?

My racing knowledge is almost entirely made up of Mariokart and Diddy Kong Racing lol. Some random need for speed game on the GameCube as well.

My 2 cent contribution to your answer...

They are different racing games, their targets are very different.

FH is an "arcade racer" in an open world. Here the game does not focus so much on "simulation of reality", the objective is to make the player have fun driving a car on an open map, beautiful landscapes, impossible maneuvers... almost a "Mario Kart open world" that has real life cars, realistic maps.

GT7 and main line Forza games are a simulator focused on closed tracks. Here you have the experience of simulating a "pilot driving the car", the game is much more complex and seeks to reflect the reality of a race.

i'm not a big fan, but i know people that realy love racing games.



GoTY 2022:

Dulfite said:

Pardon my ignorance, I don't play this genre. I'm curious for those that really love this genre and are unbiased, how does this hold up to the Forza game from 2021?

My racing knowledge is almost entirely made up of Mariokart and Diddy Kong Racing lol. Some random need for speed game on the GameCube as well.

I don't think there's really a comparison to be made to Forza Horizon 5. They're extremely different games that celebrate similar things in very different ways.

To compare it to something more universal, let's equate cars to food in each of the 3 games you're talking about.

Mario Kart - Baking goods at home with friends

  • Close-knit socially
  • Easy enough to get into baking but a lot of depth to making things amazing
  • A lot of depth available to technique but not a huge amount of complexity to ingredients

Forza Horizon 5 - Attending a food-truck festival

  • An openly social experience
  • A variety of things to enjoy beyond just the food
  • A good amount of depth to culture and technique available to explore but not necessary to enjoy yourself

Gran Turismo 7 - Fine dining

  • Immense amount of depth to how things come together and how you engage with it
  • Celebrating technique and ingredients at their highest level
  • Extremely fun and engaging for those who really dive into it

At the end of the day, each is doing what they set out to do at the top of their game and each has their own audience (which isn't entirely mutually exclusive). The Forza Motorsport series sits between Forza Horizon and Gran Turismo in this scale (slightly closer to fine dining) but doesn't do either as well as the others IMO. It seems like Turn 10 is looking to go more deeply into the fine dining route with their reboot of the franchise but we don't know enough to say how far they're going or how good it'll be. 



The biggest difference is open world vs specifically crafted tracks.

Open world is great for hanging out, exploring the landscape (you can go anywhere, roads are optional in some of its disciplines) and basically being there. Like going on a small holiday, enjoy the sunset in Mexico while getting a little taste of the culture.
FH5 is a festival game which constantly rewards you with gifts. Racing is just one of the many activities and you have road racing (a circuit sectioned off without traffic), street racing (a ribbon to follow with traffic), dirt racing (a ribbon to follow over dirt roads) and off road racing (check point to check point cross map). Next to that you have all kinds of stunts, barn finds, story missions, showcase events, speed traps, drift sections, houses to buy, there is always something to do near you on the map.
Unfortunately it lacks any feeling of progression and you can basically complete the whole game with one car. It's a jump in and do whatever game.

GT7 focuses on the tracks and cars. All the tracks are either real life or carefully hand crafted for optimum flow suited to racing. They are also all over the world instead of one location. In GT7 the skies will even be different (and dynamic) depending on location in the world.
GT7 focuses on a realistic driving experience, no 500ft jumps like in FH5 and better stay on the road or you end up with dirty tires compromising grip.
You can enjoy the history of cars through it's many museums and in the cafe.
GT7 has a driving school to teach you all the techniques, track experience to learn all the tracks, a campaign with actual progression from slow family car to race car driver, and a ranked competitive online racing environment that tries to separate the clean drivers from crash kiddies.

Both allow modding, tuning and painting of cars. But that's really the only overlap there is.



I bet you can't drift like in Mario Kart. Clearly Nintendo does physics better.