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Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware July 4-10 - PS5 Sales Top 10 Million

Alby_da_Wolf said:
curl-6 said:

This isn't the first gen where consoles had different amounts of RAM, or just significantly different specs in general.

In the 6th gen Xbox had 64MB while Gamecube had 40MB and PS2 just 32MB. 

In the second half of the 8th gen games had to scale all the way from Xbox One X and PS4 Pro down to the base Xbox One.

What you say is true, but this gen there is one thing that changed: until 8th gen even base models had a huge RAM size increase compared to previous gen.
But this gen full specced models offer a big, not huge increase, and XS base model offers an increase quite small, smaller than the typical mid-life RAM upgrade anyone would do to their PC. And PC-console multiplats are more than in the past, and since PC gaming dropped DOS, with PC development comes the developers attitude to put less work than in the past on RAM usage optimisation.

The amount of RAM is less crucial on 9th gen consoles due to the SSDs being able to accommodate a lot of the stuff that used to be done in RAM on older hardware, and since XSS has the same SSD as the X, it still shouldn't really hold back the X or PS5, especially when things like textures and resolution can be easily lowered to save memory.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

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curl-6 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

What you say is true, but this gen there is one thing that changed: until 8th gen even base models had a huge RAM size increase compared to previous gen.
But this gen full specced models offer a big, not huge increase, and XS base model offers an increase quite small, smaller than the typical mid-life RAM upgrade anyone would do to their PC. And PC-console multiplats are more than in the past, and since PC gaming dropped DOS, with PC development comes the developers attitude to put less work than in the past on RAM usage optimisation.

The amount of RAM is less crucial on 9th gen consoles due to the SSDs being able to accommodate a lot of the stuff that used to be done in RAM on older hardware, and since XSS has the same SSD as the X, it still shouldn't really hold back the X or PS5, especially when things like textures and resolution can be easily lowered to save memory.

Don't believe SSD is a replacement for RAM, SSD is great because it's a great speed and latency improvement compared to HDD. Yes, precisely thanks to these features an advantage offered by SSD is being able to load in RAM a lot of stuff "last minute" as smoothly or even more than loading larger portions in advance from HDD, so keeping a lot more RAM available on average, but when you need the speed and latency of RAM, SSD won't be a replacement.
Also, in single player games with free roaming in large worlds managed in real time also outside of draw distance, the game engine will need to keep loaded all the non graphic world infos needed for the task (well, for this particular issue we're talking about a very small minority of very ambitious titles, but even if they are in small number, surely both Sony and MS will want them on their latest consoles).
I took into accont graphics scalability, but I'm also willing to take into account that even the entry level GPU is more powerful, and some years newer, so it offers more and more advanced functions, even limiting it to 1080p it will still require more RAM than last gen, I fear 10GB is just a couple of GB too stingy, 12GB would have made devs life easier. BTW 12GB was precisely one of the most agreed upon guesses about entry level  RAM size before PS5 and XS were fully revealed.
Anyway, I don't predict doom and gloom, I just predict that eventually the compromises required by entry level XS will force devs to not fully use XSX, and PS too in multiplats, CPU power and their larger RAM will mostly be used only for better graphics.
Anyhow, it could also happen that XSS limits become a good excuse for devs to pause the race to ever more demanding games and prevent dev costs from skyrocketing.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Alby_da_Wolf said:
curl-6 said:

The amount of RAM is less crucial on 9th gen consoles due to the SSDs being able to accommodate a lot of the stuff that used to be done in RAM on older hardware, and since XSS has the same SSD as the X, it still shouldn't really hold back the X or PS5, especially when things like textures and resolution can be easily lowered to save memory.

Don't believe SSD is a replacement for RAM, SSD is great because it's a great speed and latency improvement compared to HDD. Yes, precisely thanks to these features an advantage offered by SSD is being able to load in RAM a lot of stuff "last minute" as smoothly or even more than loading larger portions in advance from HDD, so keeping a lot more RAM available on average, but when you need the speed and latency of RAM, SSD won't be a replacement.
Also, in single player games with free roaming in large worlds managed in real time also outside of draw distance, the game engine will need to keep loaded all the non graphic world infos needed for the task (well, for this particular issue we're talking about a very small minority of very ambitious titles, but even if they are in small number, surely both Sony and MS will want them on their latest consoles).
I took into accont graphics scalability, but I'm also willing to take into account that even the entry level GPU is more powerful, and some years newer, so it offers more and more advanced functions, even limiting it to 1080p it will still require more RAM than last gen, I fear 10GB is just a couple of GB too stingy, 12GB would have made devs life easier. BTW 12GB was precisely one of the most agreed upon guesses about entry level  RAM size before PS5 and XS were fully revealed.
Anyway, I don't predict doom and gloom, I just predict that eventually the compromises required by entry level XS will force devs to not fully use XSX, and PS too in multiplats, CPU power and their larger RAM will mostly be used only for better graphics.
Anyhow, it could also happen that XSS limits become a good excuse for devs to pause the race to ever more demanding games and prevent dev costs from skyrocketing.

From Sony reveal of PS5 their explanations of the SSD and how fast it was allowing a lot of space that previously needed to be on the RAM because it needed to be recalled fast now wasn`t an issue. So we will really need to wait to be sure how much the 10Gb will affect the games. But yes in general terms I do agree that to some point Series S will hold back multiplats, even more because most third parties don`t put much on optmizing and love to cut costs and corners.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Alby_da_Wolf said:
curl-6 said:

The amount of RAM is less crucial on 9th gen consoles due to the SSDs being able to accommodate a lot of the stuff that used to be done in RAM on older hardware, and since XSS has the same SSD as the X, it still shouldn't really hold back the X or PS5, especially when things like textures and resolution can be easily lowered to save memory.

Don't believe SSD is a replacement for RAM, SSD is great because it's a great speed and latency improvement compared to HDD. Yes, precisely thanks to these features an advantage offered by SSD is being able to load in RAM a lot of stuff "last minute" as smoothly or even more than loading larger portions in advance from HDD, so keeping a lot more RAM available on average, but when you need the speed and latency of RAM, SSD won't be a replacement.
Also, in single player games with free roaming in large worlds managed in real time also outside of draw distance, the game engine will need to keep loaded all the non graphic world infos needed for the task (well, for this particular issue we're talking about a very small minority of very ambitious titles, but even if they are in small number, surely both Sony and MS will want them on their latest consoles).
I took into accont graphics scalability, but I'm also willing to take into account that even the entry level GPU is more powerful, and some years newer, so it offers more and more advanced functions, even limiting it to 1080p it will still require more RAM than last gen, I fear 10GB is just a couple of GB too stingy, 12GB would have made devs life easier. BTW 12GB was precisely one of the most agreed upon guesses about entry level  RAM size before PS5 and XS were fully revealed.
Anyway, I don't predict doom and gloom, I just predict that eventually the compromises required by entry level XS will force devs to not fully use XSX, and PS too in multiplats, CPU power and their larger RAM will mostly be used only for better graphics.
Anyhow, it could also happen that XSS limits become a good excuse for devs to pause the race to ever more demanding games and prevent dev costs from skyrocketing.

SSD can't replace everything RAM is used for, but there's a reason even Series X and PS5 have only double as much RAM as the circa 2013 PS4 and Xbone yet are still a big leap over them. 

Devs have been targeting different specs with their games for decades, I really don't think 10GB will be a big problem. The S versions of games may suffer a bit but if PS4 games can run on Switch, PS5 games can run on the Series S.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Don't believe SSD is a replacement for RAM, SSD is great because it's a great speed and latency improvement compared to HDD. Yes, precisely thanks to these features an advantage offered by SSD is being able to load in RAM a lot of stuff "last minute" as smoothly or even more than loading larger portions in advance from HDD, so keeping a lot more RAM available on average, but when you need the speed and latency of RAM, SSD won't be a replacement.
Also, in single player games with free roaming in large worlds managed in real time also outside of draw distance, the game engine will need to keep loaded all the non graphic world infos needed for the task (well, for this particular issue we're talking about a very small minority of very ambitious titles, but even if they are in small number, surely both Sony and MS will want them on their latest consoles).
I took into accont graphics scalability, but I'm also willing to take into account that even the entry level GPU is more powerful, and some years newer, so it offers more and more advanced functions, even limiting it to 1080p it will still require more RAM than last gen, I fear 10GB is just a couple of GB too stingy, 12GB would have made devs life easier. BTW 12GB was precisely one of the most agreed upon guesses about entry level  RAM size before PS5 and XS were fully revealed.
Anyway, I don't predict doom and gloom, I just predict that eventually the compromises required by entry level XS will force devs to not fully use XSX, and PS too in multiplats, CPU power and their larger RAM will mostly be used only for better graphics.
Anyhow, it could also happen that XSS limits become a good excuse for devs to pause the race to ever more demanding games and prevent dev costs from skyrocketing.

SSD can't replace everything RAM is used for, but there's a reason even Series X and PS5 have only double as much RAM as the circa 2013 PS4 and Xbone yet are still a big leap over them. 

Devs have been targeting different specs with their games for decades, I really don't think 10GB will be a big problem. The S versions of games may suffer a bit but if PS4 games can run on Switch, PS5 games can run on the Series S.

About your bet, it is likely that PS5 alone will be very near that 56M by the end of 2023.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

SSD can't replace everything RAM is used for, but there's a reason even Series X and PS5 have only double as much RAM as the circa 2013 PS4 and Xbone yet are still a big leap over them. 

Devs have been targeting different specs with their games for decades, I really don't think 10GB will be a big problem. The S versions of games may suffer a bit but if PS4 games can run on Switch, PS5 games can run on the Series S.

About your bet, it is likely that PS5 alone will be very near that 56M by the end of 2023.

I expect so too. I only make bets when I am confident I will win, hence why I have a 7/8 win rate in my 11 years on VGChartz haha.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
DonFerrari said:

About your bet, it is likely that PS5 alone will be very near that 56M by the end of 2023.

I expect so too. I only make bets when I am confident I will win, hence why I have a 7/8 win rate in my 11 years on VGChartz haha.

Yep, and Xbox is likely to sell better than X1, so yep this bet is very very very unlikely for you to lose.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."