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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Evo champion smash bros tournament player tries to commit suicide

Ganoncrotch said:

In case anyone is wondering the mistakes that his former partner is talking about when referring to him are...

People like this are why I'm totally on Nintendo's side when it comes to distancing itself from Smash Tournaments... even when I have some smash content on my channel and would love to further explore the game with streaming, it's been completely ruined by people like this.

Not the worst aspect of this, but shit like this definitely part of why Nintendo doesn't want to support the Smash community, or get too involved with esports in general. Helping create a platform for people who then to stuff like this would, fairly or otherwise, be blamed at least partly on Nintendo. And Zero is hardly the only one. If I'm Nintendo, I'm not touching this kind of thing with a ten foot poll.



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Jumpin said:

While I understand an older teenager flirting with or dating a younger teenager is frowned upon, especially in more puritanical locations, there is nothing objectively wrong with it. At this point, people being overly judgmental have set their brains aside and are just virtue signalling. As far as I know, this boy did not harm anyone.

On the other hand, mass gang-bullying a teenager to the point of suicide is incredibly harmful. I'd say fucking despicable.

Facts. Biological development does not occur at the same rates for everybody. 18 is as arbitrary as any other age. I remember at 14 there were girls who you'd mistake for 18 and others who looked 8. In China, 14 is the age of consent. In France, 15. In Nigeria, it's 11. And we're not even talking about having sex here as I understand it so people getting upset seem to have no ability to break out of their preconditioning. These are the same types of people who think drugs are bad because they are illegal. Like that's the entirety of their thought process. Not they can be dangerous, not that it would be difficult to track levels of intoxication, just "bad cuz illegal".

It really is a myopic and sophomoric thought process, but hey not all of us can be smart.



JWeinCom said:

Jumpin said:

While I understand an older teenager flirting with or dating a younger teenager is frowned upon, especially in more puritanical locations, there is nothing objectively wrong with it. At this point, people being overly judgmental have set their brains aside and are just virtue signalling. As far as I know, this boy did not harm anyone.

On the other hand, mass gang-bullying a teenager to the point of suicide is incredibly harmful. I'd say fucking despicable.

No, saying that asking a 14 year old girl for pictures of her masturbating is not virtue signaling. That is solicitation of child pornography. It's a crime in these parts at least.  

This wasn't a 16 year old hitting on a 14 year old. He was 19 at the time. Just because his age ended in "teen" does not mean they were remotely developmentally close. This is a college sophmore with a highschool freshman. A 14 year old messaged him saying she was a fan and he immediately saw this as an opportunity for sexual gratification. Likely not the only time.

He is not a teenager, he is now 25. I don't know that he was mass bullied. He likely should have retreated from the internet anyway. But I find it hard to imagine anyone said anything to him that was worse then asking a 14 year old girl for photos of her masturbating. His reaction when called out did not seem to show genuine remorse or a genuine attempt to get better. When called out he made a statement acting as if he didn't remember anything about what was said and backhandedly implying that the accuser was lying, leading to them receiving backlash and hate. When more evidence came out, he copped to as little as possible, posting enough to seem like he was "confessing" but intentionally leaving out enough details (like the girl telling him he was 14 right up front). Then eventually he had no choice but to confess. 

Zero is the author of his own misfortune. Hope he recovers and then gets whatever help he needs to not be a predator, but holding someone accountable is not bullying.

KLXVER said:

Yeah, he seems to be judged a bit too harshly. I dont know the whole story, but it seems like he sent some sexually charged texts to some younger teenagers when he was 19. If he was like 25 or older I would get the hate. I dont know. I was never a fan of the guy. He always seemed a bit obnoxious to me, but I dont think he deserves the hate. Unless Im missing something about the story...

He was 19 at the time and among other things he requested pictures of a 14 year old masturbating. Do you find that acceptable?

So he should lose everything because he did that? I think he just got caught up in the controversy. There were people who actually hurt kids.



OhNoYouDont said:
Jumpin said:

While I understand an older teenager flirting with or dating a younger teenager is frowned upon, especially in more puritanical locations, there is nothing objectively wrong with it. At this point, people being overly judgmental have set their brains aside and are just virtue signalling. As far as I know, this boy did not harm anyone.

On the other hand, mass gang-bullying a teenager to the point of suicide is incredibly harmful. I'd say fucking despicable.

Facts. Biological development does not occur at the same rates for everybody. 18 is as arbitrary as any other age. I remember at 14 there were girls who you'd mistake for 18 and others who looked 8. In China, 14 is the age of consent. In France, 15. In Nigeria, it's 11. And we're not even talking about having sex here as I understand it so people getting upset seem to have no ability to break out of their preconditioning. These are the same types of people who think drugs are bad because they are illegal. Like that's the entirety of their thought process. Not they can be dangerous, not that it would be difficult to track levels of intoxication, just "bad cuz illegal".

It really is a myopic and sophomoric thought process, but hey not all of us can be smart.

It is not remotely like taking drugs because there are two parties involved and a high probability of harm.

It is not based an arbitrary distinction, but a reasoned knowledge of human development and psychology. The goal is to prohibit sex with someone until they are old enough to make a rational informed decision. We can't pinpoint this moment, but we can be sure that, until the point of mental decline, the older a person is, the more likely the are to have that capability. We know typically when people develop their executive function enough to make sound decision, and we know how those who have sexual relationships with adults when they are children tend to feel about it later in life. Tends not to be good. Physical development is irrelevant as the mental development necessary for consent does not correlate well with physical development. That being said, I generally do not believe in strict liability for statutory rape, and if the accused had reasonable belief that a person is legal aged, then that should be a valid defense.

Humans do not all develop at the same rate. However, unless we set some age, it would be impossible to enforce any kind of statutory rape law. 18 is a reasonable standard, particularly whereas most states have a romeo and juliet clause to prevent prosecution when the parties are close and age. 

The laws do not only protect minors, but also adults who are attracted to younger people. If we had a standard where a person could have sex with anyone of any age so long as they are "mature enough", then a person could have sex with a minor that he believes is "mature" but later be found guilty because a court disagrees. Clear laws help protect violators by ensuring that they can abide by them. Laws that do not enable someone to know clearly when they may be in violation are actually invalid "void for vagueness". If I made a law that stated "a person can consent to sexual activity when they are mentally developed enough to give informed consent" that would undoubtedly be struck down.

It is possible that there are some very highly mentally developed minors who are capable of informed consent to sexual activity with adults and would suffer no ill effects. We may be delaying some potential sexual relationships that might be benign. However, setting no age limits will inevitable enable relationships that would be damaging and destructive. And forcing people to wait a few years before fucking is a price well worth paying to avoid child abuse.

Do you believe we should model our laws after China or Nigeria?

If the basis for your position is "hey, some girls get tall and get tits earlier so we can't have any laws to protect children" then I'd suggest you might want to think on the matter a bit more before being condescending.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 05 April 2021

KLXVER said:
JWeinCom said:

No, saying that asking a 14 year old girl for pictures of her masturbating is not virtue signaling. That is solicitation of child pornography. It's a crime in these parts at least.  

This wasn't a 16 year old hitting on a 14 year old. He was 19 at the time. Just because his age ended in "teen" does not mean they were remotely developmentally close. This is a college sophmore with a highschool freshman. A 14 year old messaged him saying she was a fan and he immediately saw this as an opportunity for sexual gratification. Likely not the only time.

He is not a teenager, he is now 25. I don't know that he was mass bullied. He likely should have retreated from the internet anyway. But I find it hard to imagine anyone said anything to him that was worse then asking a 14 year old girl for photos of her masturbating. His reaction when called out did not seem to show genuine remorse or a genuine attempt to get better. When called out he made a statement acting as if he didn't remember anything about what was said and backhandedly implying that the accuser was lying, leading to them receiving backlash and hate. When more evidence came out, he copped to as little as possible, posting enough to seem like he was "confessing" but intentionally leaving out enough details (like the girl telling him he was 14 right up front). Then eventually he had no choice but to confess. 

Zero is the author of his own misfortune. Hope he recovers and then gets whatever help he needs to not be a predator, but holding someone accountable is not bullying.

KLXVER said:

Yeah, he seems to be judged a bit too harshly. I dont know the whole story, but it seems like he sent some sexually charged texts to some younger teenagers when he was 19. If he was like 25 or older I would get the hate. I dont know. I was never a fan of the guy. He always seemed a bit obnoxious to me, but I dont think he deserves the hate. Unless Im missing something about the story...

He was 19 at the time and among other things he requested pictures of a 14 year old masturbating. Do you find that acceptable?

So he should lose everything because he did that? I think he just got caught up in the controversy. There were people who actually hurt kids.

Yes, and he was one of them. Obviously to a lesser extent than others. Based on what we know at least.

Should he lose everything? No. Should he be allowed an online platform that will increase his visibility and allow him to interact with more young girls without some sort of evidence that he has changed? If I were the platform holder, I would say no.

That's what happened. He got banned from Twitch and Facebook, and can't go to video game tournaments anymore. He got off pretty easy as what he did, at least in America, was a felony. People judged him because that's what people do when you do shitty things.

I'm sorry this situation has been hard for him, and hope he gets help, but again, this is a situation entirely of his design.



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JWeinCom said:
KLXVER said:

So he should lose everything because he did that? I think he just got caught up in the controversy. There were people who actually hurt kids.

Yes, and he was one of them. Obviously to a lesser extent than others. Based on what we know at least.

Should he lose everything? No. Should he be allowed an online platform that will increase his visibility and allow him to interact with more young girls without some sort of evidence that he has changed? If I were the platform holder, I would say no. That's what happened.

Those are consequences. They could have been far worse, so he should consider himself lucky. I'm sorry this situation has been hard for him, and hope he gets help, but again, this is a situation entirely of his design.

What help does he need? Help against being a horny teenager? Im not sure therapy is going to "cure" that. Again if he was older, I would agree with you, but he was barely an adult himself at the time.



KLXVER said:
JWeinCom said:

Yes, and he was one of them. Obviously to a lesser extent than others. Based on what we know at least.

Should he lose everything? No. Should he be allowed an online platform that will increase his visibility and allow him to interact with more young girls without some sort of evidence that he has changed? If I were the platform holder, I would say no. That's what happened.

Those are consequences. They could have been far worse, so he should consider himself lucky. I'm sorry this situation has been hard for him, and hope he gets help, but again, this is a situation entirely of his design.

What help does he need? Help against being a horny teenager? Im not sure therapy is going to "cure" that. Again if he was older, I would agree with you, but he was barely an adult himself at the time.

Help at not soliciting child pornography.

I was a horny teenager too when I was 19. I was not trying to get highschool freshman to send me nude pictures. If you think this is normal "boys will be boys" behavior, that is disconcerting. 

He was barely an adult? This happened in September of 2014. She was barely out of middle school. Literally, if this had happened three months earlier she would have been in middle school

If you think 19 is not old enough to know that you should not be telling someone who graduated from middle school three months ago to masturbate with a piece of ice, and is not a sign of deeper issues, then that is highly fucked.



JWeinCom said:
KLXVER said:

What help does he need? Help against being a horny teenager? Im not sure therapy is going to "cure" that. Again if he was older, I would agree with you, but he was barely an adult himself at the time.

Help at not soliciting child pornography.

I was a horny teenager too when I was 19. I was not trying to get highschool freshman to send me nude pictures. If you think this is normal "boys will be boys" behavior, that is disconcerting. 

He was barely an adult? This happened in September of 2014. She was barely out of middle school. Literally, if this had happened three months earlier she would have been in middle school

If you think 19 is not old enough to know that you should not be telling someone who graduated from middle school three months ago to masturbate with a piece of ice, and is not a sign of deeper issues, then that is highly fucked.

He had a girlfriend of age when this came out. If you think he is some sick guy grooming kids, then that is concerning as well. He made a mistake. He has apologized and that should be it. If he would do anything like that again now, then throw the book at him. 



KLXVER said:
JWeinCom said:

Help at not soliciting child pornography.

I was a horny teenager too when I was 19. I was not trying to get highschool freshman to send me nude pictures. If you think this is normal "boys will be boys" behavior, that is disconcerting. 

He was barely an adult? This happened in September of 2014. She was barely out of middle school. Literally, if this had happened three months earlier she would have been in middle school

If you think 19 is not old enough to know that you should not be telling someone who graduated from middle school three months ago to masturbate with a piece of ice, and is not a sign of deeper issues, then that is highly fucked.

He had a girlfriend of age when this came out. If you think he is some sick guy grooming kids, then that is concerning as well. He made a mistake. He has apologized and that should be it. If he would do anything like that again now, then throw the book at him. 

Yes... if he has a girlfriend of age he must no longer have any sexual interest in children. Because no married man has ever committed child abuse, right? -_-...

I think he was a sick guy who was grooming kids, because he was a sick guy grooming kids. A fan who was three months out of middle school messaged him cause they were a fan. Almost instantly, after knowing her age, he started telling her how cute she was, and starting bringing the conversation to sex, before long asking her to masturbate for him. 

That is grooming, she was a kid. Hence, he was grooming kids. There are other stories taking place after that.

Whether he still is, I don't know, but I would imagine so. He did not seek any help until after being called out and then his efforts seemed sketchy. I don't think he magically stopped being attracted to minors or magically learned how to control those impulses.

Point blank, do you think a 19 year old man asking a girl who, again, was three months out of middle school, to send him pictures of her masturbating is morally wrong?

Should such a person seek help?

Spoiler!
Willing to bet I don't get a straight answer.

 



JWeinCom said:
KLXVER said:

He had a girlfriend of age when this came out. If you think he is some sick guy grooming kids, then that is concerning as well. He made a mistake. He has apologized and that should be it. If he would do anything like that again now, then throw the book at him. 

Yes... if he has a girlfriend of age he must no longer have any sexual interest in children. Because no married man has ever committed child abuse, right? -_-...

I think he was a sick guy who was grooming kids, because he was a sick guy grooming kids. A fan who was three months out of middle school messaged him cause they were a fan. Almost instantly, after knowing her age, he started telling her how cute she was, and starting bringing the conversation to sex, before long asking her to masturbate for him. 

That is grooming, she was a kid. Hence, he was grooming kids. There are other stories taking place after that.

Whether he still is, I don't know, but I would imagine so. He did not seek any help until after being called out and then his efforts seemed sketchy. I don't think he magically stopped being attracted to minors or magically learned how to control those impulses.

Point blank, do you think a 19 year old man asking a girl who, again, was three months out of middle school, to send him pictures of her masturbating is morally wrong?

Should such a person seek help?

Spoiler!
Willing to bet I don't get a straight answer.

 

I cant give you a straight answer. If you want to believe hes a young Jeffrey Epstein, then thats fine. I dont have a dog in this race. I just think he was a dumb kid who did a dumb thing. Nothing Ive seen from him makes me believe hes some sort of monster. Thats all.