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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony VR Round 2

Tagged games:

 

Should Sony create VR games that also work without VR?

Yes 4 16.67%
 
No 16 66.67%
 
Sony should give up on VR 4 16.67%
 
What's VR?! 0 0%
 
Total:24
OneTime said:
mutantsushi said:

Yeah, I didn't understand the logic of their scenario. Besides what you mention, none of that "increases the install base" if it's just serving people who already own PSVR1 with PS4/PS5. I don't know if they were unaware that PS4 VR games can run on PS5, but it doesn't make sense to produce PS5 only games designed for PSVR1 which is vastly smaller than combined PS4/Pro/PS5 PSVR market, and any new VR games entering production can make the biggest splash if they target PSVR2 for PS5.

I think most people with PS5 and PSVR1 at the moment are aware that they can play their old PS4 games.  From what I understand, developers can't really use the enhanced features of PS5 for these games (the PSVR locks the system in bc mode or something similar - I haven't found any examples of "here's what PS5 can do for PSVR").

Should new PS5 VR games support old headsets?  That must be up to the developers, in my opinion.  Building a PS5-only game is already a costly business.  Building a PS5-only, PSVR2-only game may result in a lot of developers baulking.

To me it feels like a mistake for there not to be a couple of PS5 VR titles at launch for the old headset, even if they were just small demos.  It makes it look like Sony "forgot" about their VR product.

@bolded: A simple Google search...

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.roadtovr.com/blood-truth-firewall-zero-hour-ps5-update-enhancements/amp/



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SvennoJ said:
VAMatt said:

Yes, I agree.  That is the fundamental problem faced by VR, and (I think) the biggest hurdle remaining.  

I've used every major tethered VR headset excluding the Index.  I own PSVR and I owned Gear VR.  IMO, Gear VR was the overall best experience because of the relatively higher level of immersion possible without a cable.  There are much better looking games on the tethered headsets. Many of the games are much better in many other ways as well.  But, you simply cannot forget about the cable(s) in most games.  You must pay attention to them, otherwise you'll get wrapped up.  So, either you're consciously thinking about cables, or you're ignoring them for a minute until you get wrapped up and have to stop playing to untangle. Either way is extremely immersion breaking.  

I have not used in Oculus Quest, nor have I used the wireless accessory for Vive.  I hear very good things about the latest Quest.  My buddy, who has been messing around with VR since the early days of Rift DK2 (that's when I first was exposed as well), and is much more of a VR enthusiast than I am, speaks highly of it.  So, I think I may take the plunge this year. 

I haven't been doing much with VR lately, because I kind of lost interest after a couple of years when I finally accepted the reality that the necessary levels of immersion just weren't really possible yet in high rez, cutting edge games.  

What games are you playing that you have to stop to untangle the cable?

I'm only aware of the cable while playing Beat Saber and there I hang it over my shoulder down my back to avoid stepping on it or getting wrapped in it. For sit down games it's never an issue, just the few you walk around a bit. It would be nicer without a cable but you still need a power source. Wearing a battery on your body or on the headset isn't comfortable either. I'm much more aware of the headset than the cable. Lighter and more comfort first.

Two fundamental problems, transmission rates and power. If the battery only lasts a couple hours, I'll still be playing tethered on a charge cable while having the extra bulk and weight of the battery...

Nr 1 improvement for comfort for me would be adjustable lenses so I don't need to wear my glasses inside the headset. I don't with beat saber since I can see all the shapes fine and it's a lot more comfortable. It's blur on top of low res though, far from ideal.

The one cable claim could very much be for charging purpose and allowing you to play wired when the battery needs said charging through the USB-C port at the front of the PS5.. That would be my hopeful best case scenario. Because, like you, I don’t think the cable that the PSVR headset has gets in the way anywhere near as much as some others claim here. In fact, I think most of those complaining about it are either purposefully exaggerating the issue to try to make their point, or doing it to downplay the PSVR in typical concern trolling fashion.

That being said, a wireless headset would still be preferred for convenience purpose, even if it only has 3 hours battery life in-between charges. When it dies off, you plug it and the experience becomes no more or no less cumbersome as the original PSVR. And I say that because the least cords visible in my entertainment center the better.

In the end, the most important thing for me, aside from the controller which I think they nailed, will be the display quality and its pixel density. It needs to have a high pixel density so the aliasing isn’t as distracting as what is found in the current headset, and so they don’t need to put vaseline on the graphics to compensate.

Last edited by Hynad - on 25 March 2021

Hynad said:

@bolded: A simple Google search...

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.roadtovr.com/blood-truth-firewall-zero-hour-ps5-update-enhancements/amp/

LOL - read carefully.  It explicitly says:

"It’s also worth mentioning that there’s still a lot of power under the hood that the games can’t tap into because they aren’t built natively for PS5; Sony still hasn’t confirmed if we’ll ever see native PS5 games for PSVR."

That was the article I actually based my original comment on.  Although to be fair I did say "what PS5 can do for VR" - even running PS4 games on PS5 does make them a little better.  I'm not a believer in this "cross-gen" stuff, personally - if I pay for PS5, I want games specifically written for PS5.

Last edited by OneTime - on 25 March 2021

OneTime said:
Hynad said:

@bolded: A simple Google search...

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.roadtovr.com/blood-truth-firewall-zero-hour-ps5-update-enhancements/amp/

LOL - read carefully.  It explicitly says:

"It’s also worth mentioning that there’s still a lot of power under the hood that the games can’t tap into because they aren’t built natively for PS5; Sony still hasn’t confirmed if we’ll ever see native PS5 games for PSVR."

That was the article I actually based my original comment on.  Although to be fair I did say "what PS5 can do for VR" - even running PS4 games on PS5 does make them a little better.  I'm not a believer in this "cross-gen" stuff, personally - if I pay for PS5, I want games specifically written for PS5.

LMAO!!! - The games are PS4 games running in BC mode. It goes without saying that, as such, they weren’t conceived to harness the PS5’s feature set. Yet developers can patch the game to recognize when it is running off a PS5 and enhancements that harness the PS5’s capabilities that make sense without having to alter the entire game engine are then provided. That simple common sense that none of those PS4 games are going to tap into the full potential of the PS5. That you need to point this out as if it was some sort of issues is questionable at best.

As for the PS5 currently not having native PS5 VR games, that’s another non issue that is answered through another dose of common sense. The PSVR is a PS4 peripheral that was built around the specs of that console. With the eventual release of Sony’s second gen VR headset coming for the PS5, you’d think the developers making VR games are currently working on their titles to be ready for that device’s eventual launch.

Finally, saying that “It makes it look like Sony "forgot" about their VR product” after all the VR games that got announced recently makes it seem like you’re behind on information.

Last edited by Hynad - on 25 March 2021

Hynad said:
OneTime said:

LOL - read carefully.  It explicitly says:

"It’s also worth mentioning that there’s still a lot of power under the hood that the games can’t tap into because they aren’t built natively for PS5; Sony still hasn’t confirmed if we’ll ever see native PS5 games for PSVR."

That was the article I actually based my original comment on.  Although to be fair I did say "what PS5 can do for VR" - even running PS4 games on PS5 does make them a little better.  I'm not a believer in this "cross-gen" stuff, personally - if I pay for PS5, I want games specifically written for PS5.

LMAO!!! - The games are PS4 games running in BC mode. It goes without saying that, as such, they weren’t conceived to harness the PS5’s feature set. Yet developers can patch the game to recognize when it is running off a PS5 and enhancements that harness the PS5’s capabilities that make sense without having to alter the entire game engine are then provided. That simple common sense that none of those PS4 games are going to tap into the full potential of the PS5. That you need to point this out as some sort of issues is questionable at best.

As for the PS5 currently not having native PS5 VR games, that’s another non issue that is answered through another dose of common sense. The PSVR is a PS4 peripherals that was built around the specs of that console. With the eventual release of Sony’s second gen VR headset coming for the PS5, you’d think the developers making VR games are currently working on their titles to be ready for that device’s launch.

Finally, saying that “It makes it look like Sony "forgot" about their VR product” after all the VR games that got announced recently makes it seem like you’re behind on information.

Not sure what you are trying to say here.  I think you agree that there is no support for "native PS5 games running on PSVR1".  So a logical conclusion is that they only support PSVR1 running PS4 games in backwards compatibility mode.

The PSVR is just a headset display, so there is no particular reason that PS5 games could not target it.  Maybe Sony will allow developers to do so in future.

As there were no VR titles in the PS5 launch line up, and the PSVR1 needs an extra adaptor, and it still isn't clear if people will be forced to upgrade to PSVR2 to play PS5 VR games, I'd say that it is fair to say that Sony's messaging is a bit disjointed.



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OneTime said:
Hynad said:

LMAO!!! - The games are PS4 games running in BC mode. It goes without saying that, as such, they weren’t conceived to harness the PS5’s feature set. Yet developers can patch the game to recognize when it is running off a PS5 and enhancements that harness the PS5’s capabilities that make sense without having to alter the entire game engine are then provided. That simple common sense that none of those PS4 games are going to tap into the full potential of the PS5. That you need to point this out as some sort of issues is questionable at best.

As for the PS5 currently not having native PS5 VR games, that’s another non issue that is answered through another dose of common sense. The PSVR is a PS4 peripherals that was built around the specs of that console. With the eventual release of Sony’s second gen VR headset coming for the PS5, you’d think the developers making VR games are currently working on their titles to be ready for that device’s launch.

Finally, saying that “It makes it look like Sony "forgot" about their VR product” after all the VR games that got announced recently makes it seem like you’re behind on information.

Not sure what you are trying to say here.  I think you agree that there is no support for "native PS5 games running on PSVR1".  So a logical conclusion is that they only support PSVR1 running PS4 games in backwards compatibility mode.

The PSVR is just a headset display, so there is no particular reason that PS5 games could not target it.  Maybe Sony will allow developers to do so in future.

As there were no VR titles in the PS5 launch line up, and the PSVR1 needs an extra adaptor, and it still isn't clear if people will be forced to upgrade to PSVR2 to play PS5 VR games, I'd say that it is fair to say that Sony's messaging is a bit disjointed.

What exactly is the disjointed message? The PSVR runs all the VR titles that come out on PS4 and PS Store. If you have a PS5, it runs all those games as well, and no titles have been announced to require anything PS5 specific outside of the PS4 cam adaptor, which Sony is giving for free to everyone requiring it.

So you are creating this “disjointed message” out of thin air, and trying to make an issue over nothing. As for the PS5 not targeting the current PSVR, why should they alienate the majority of PSVR owners using the PS4 for these games?

It wouldn’t make sense to make VR titles that leave out the users from the gen the peripheral is made for.

Last edited by Hynad - on 25 March 2021

Hynad said:
OneTime said:

Not sure what you are trying to say here.  I think you agree that there is no support for "native PS5 games running on PSVR1".  So a logical conclusion is that they only support PSVR1 running PS4 games in backwards compatibility mode.

The PSVR is just a headset display, so there is no particular reason that PS5 games could not target it.  Maybe Sony will allow developers to do so in future.

As there were no VR titles in the PS5 launch line up, and the PSVR1 needs an extra adaptor, and it still isn't clear if people will be forced to upgrade to PSVR2 to play PS5 VR games, I'd say that it is fair to say that Sony's messaging is a bit disjointed.

What exactly is the disjointed message? The PSVR runs all the VR titles that come out on PS4 and PS Store. If you have a PS5, it runs all those games as well, and no titles have been announced to require anything PS5 specific outside of the PS4 cam adaptor, which Sony is giving for free to everyone requiring it.

So you are creating this “disjointed message” out of thin air, and trying to make an issue over nothing. As for the PS5 not targeting the current PSVR, why should they alienate the majority of PSVR owners using the PS4 for these games?

It wouldn’t make sense to make VR titles that leave out the users from the gen the peripheral is made for.

So here's what I think makes sense:  

You thought that PS5 games could run with PSVR1, and posted that article without reading it.  When I pointed out the article said that it was backward compatibility, you started attacking me rather than changing the subject or admitting you were wrong.



OneTime said:
Hynad said:

What exactly is the disjointed message? The PSVR runs all the VR titles that come out on PS4 and PS Store. If you have a PS5, it runs all those games as well, and no titles have been announced to require anything PS5 specific outside of the PS4 cam adaptor, which Sony is giving for free to everyone requiring it.

So you are creating this “disjointed message” out of thin air, and trying to make an issue over nothing. As for the PS5 not targeting the current PSVR, why should they alienate the majority of PSVR owners using the PS4 for these games?

It wouldn’t make sense to make VR titles that leave out the users from the gen the peripheral is made for.

So here's what I think makes sense:  

You thought that PS5 games could run with PSVR1, and posted that article without reading it.  When I pointed out the article said that it was backward compatibility, you started attacking me rather than changing the subject or admitting you were wrong.

That’s not what happened. Either you have reading comprehension issues, or you’re another case of projection.

I provided a link that shows what the PS5 can do for the current PSVR headset. I also explained why there’s no reason for developers  to make PS5 exclusives for that headset when the console will get its own VR headset made to harness its specific architecture down the line. And finally, how it doesn’t make sense to target a fraction of the PSVR’s less than 10 million userbase just so you can see what a PS5 exclusive VR game could look like on it. This is rendered especially moot by the fact the PS5’s own VR solution is coming down the line with its specific set of features that aren’t going to simply be superficial coating upgrades like you’re asking them to make right now.

And I don’t see how I would think PS5 games could run with PSVR, seeing as there are no PS5 exclusive VR games, as I said already.

But what is indeed happening is current and upcoming PSVR games do and will run on the PS5. That’s the current messaging from Sony, and so far, there hasn’t been anything announced to detract from that.

Last edited by Hynad - on 25 March 2021

Fei-Hung said:

Yes, I know a few people in my family who had trouble with this. I had trouble with headphones as they won't fit over the VR headset and my ears are shaped funny and won't hold regular earphones. 

I didn't pay any stand up games, but I remember kids trying out the deep sea dive demo and wanting to stand up and look around and me thinking omg the cables, watch the cables.

My little one used to climb on the couch to reach things in Job Simulator (we couldn't figure out how to change the height, so he realistically could not look over the desk lol). So it was more like OMG don't fall down, don't hurt the headset :p My headphones sort of fit but it's not comfortable at all. The V2 earbuds aren't bad but I prefer to just use my 5.1 surround system, sounds much better.