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Forums - Politics - Gina Carano - Disney fired her, what does that solve?

sundin13 said:
sales2099 said:

We at a impasse then. If you wanna deny thats your right. In entertainment for the past several years, the vast majority affected by cancel culture are not left-wing. 

I actually disagree with this too. You could make the argument that on twitter, those that are most visibly using "cancel" hashtags are left wing, but people on the left are more than willing to criticize others on the left. I'd say that people on the left hold others on the left to a higher standard than they hold people on the right, so it is often easier to "cancel" (aka get a "cancel" hashtag trending) someone on the left than on the right. 

I agree with this actually. That said, I’ve seen where if the affected person is left wing, they get a small window to make things right and keep their job.

An example is Kevin Hart. A decade old homophobic tweet was dug up, and he made a ton of apologies. Went on Ellen Degeneres and really showed remorse and sensitivity. He still is in movies and has a healthy career. If he was a conservative, I 100% believe he would get the Gina Carano treatment. 



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JWeinCom said:
sales2099 said:

Yes i did. Boycot gives a chance for change and a warning. A cancelation is swift with no chance of reconciliation. This is very clear. Look, you on the other spectrum as me, but you gotta meet me half way. This was described very simply. There is a difference. 

I genuinely have no idea what the distinction is in what people are actually doing. Saying "it's quick" doesn't in any way help me understand the actual actions you define as "cancelling". 

Which is why I asked a clarifying question. Please answer it.

sales2099 said:

That’s what cancel culture refers to by the majority of people that use the term. I didn’t invent that. 

Because the majority of people who use that term are doing so disingenuously to claim something is a problem, but only when people they disagree with are doing it.

Like what you're doing right now, when an example of the right calling for someone to be fired for expressing an unpopular opinion is being presented and you're just like. "Welp, it's not canceling so no need to address that". 


So, were the people who called for the news anchor to be fired for calling Arizona as much of a problem as people calling for Gina Carano to be fired?

I’m sorry I can’t describe it any easier. A boycott gives a small window for the affected party to do right, make amends and ultimately save their career and IP. Even if they get surrounded by controversy for years and take in less money, their career is in tact. Cancel culture gives no window, no notice, no room for apology. I honestly can’t make it simpler then this. 

And if you have a issue with cancel culture only referring to entertainment, then that’s not a discussion with me. I don’t make the rules I’m just talking within them. But if I had to put in my 2 cents, an entertainment Ip or content creator could make something that I invest myself in. Like the Mandalorian or Harry Potter. I could care less about a news anchor that I don’t watch or have no investment in. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

shikamaru317 said:
JWeinCom said:

Well, if you throw out all of the examples of it being done by people on the right, then yeah, it's very one sided.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

Why is it not a problem to fire a reporter for giving news people didn't like, but firing Gina is? Because one is about entertainment? I'm sorry, that's just stupid. 

I see a world of difference between those 2 personally. It's the job of a news agency to present news in a fair and unbiased fashion, to not lead topics of conversation in a one sided direction and such. An actor's job on a fiction series is to portray a character and that is exactly what Gina did on the Mandalorian. What she posts on her social media accounts really has nothing to do with her job playing Cara Dune, a job which she performed more than adequately. She was not posting as an official representative of Disney on her personal social media accounts, she didn't add #Disney to her supposedly controversial tweets or something, and nothing she said was all that bad from what I've seen. 

Sales was dismissing it simply because it wasn't related to entertainment. That's what I was responding to, so don't jump in and take things out of context.

Part of an actor's job is to promote the show. Unless you thought they keep doing those interviews because they just love it so much. Gina was hired because she provides name value, not because she's an amazing actress. When her name value goes down, and she no longer is able to promote the show, she is less qualified for the job.

If we assume that Gina's comments would ultimately mean keeping her on the show will lead to a net loss for Disney, why should they?

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 14 February 2021

sales2099 said:

I’m sorry I can’t describe it any easier. A boycott gives a small window for the affected party to do right, make amends and ultimately save their career and IP. Even if they get surrounded by controversy for years and take in less money, their career is in tact. Cancel culture gives no window, no notice, no room for apology. I honestly can’t make it simpler then this. 

And if you have a issue with cancel culture only referring to entertainment, then that’s not a discussion with me. I don’t make the rules I’m just talking within them. But if I had to put in my 2 cents, an entertainment Ip or content creator could make something that I invest myself in. Like the Mandalorian or Harry Potter. I could care less about a news anchor that I don’t watch or have no investment in. 

It does leave room for apology. You literally just referenced this when talking about Kevin Hart. He was "cancelled", made an apology and now he is just as rich and famous as ever. This also makes it ridiculous that you are imply that "cancelling" destroys people's careers. Look at Kevin Hart, Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel, Ellen, Chris Pratt. All of them were "cancelled" but they are still rich and famous and have "in tact" careers. 

This implication that "cancelling" deletes someone from existence is pure nonsense and simply repeating it over and over again doesn't make it true.

Also, the phrase "cancel culture" is not exclusive to entertainment. If you want to assert that, back it up with literally anything: 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cancel-culture



sales2099 said:
JWeinCom said:

I genuinely have no idea what the distinction is in what people are actually doing. Saying "it's quick" doesn't in any way help me understand the actual actions you define as "cancelling". 

Which is why I asked a clarifying question. Please answer it.

sales2099 said:

That’s what cancel culture refers to by the majority of people that use the term. I didn’t invent that. 

Because the majority of people who use that term are doing so disingenuously to claim something is a problem, but only when people they disagree with are doing it.

Like what you're doing right now, when an example of the right calling for someone to be fired for expressing an unpopular opinion is being presented and you're just like. "Welp, it's not canceling so no need to address that". 


So, were the people who called for the news anchor to be fired for calling Arizona as much of a problem as people calling for Gina Carano to be fired?

I’m sorry I can’t describe it any easier. A boycott gives a small window for the affected party to do right, make amends and ultimately save their career and IP. Even if they get surrounded by controversy for years and take in less money, their career is in tact. Cancel culture gives no window, no notice, no room for apology. I honestly can’t make it simpler then this. 

And if you have a issue with cancel culture only referring to entertainment, then that’s not a discussion with me. I don’t make the rules I’m just talking within them. But if I had to put in my 2 cents, an entertainment Ip or content creator could make something that I invest myself in. Like the Mandalorian or Harry Potter. I could care less about a news anchor that I don’t watch or have no investment in. 

It's telling when someone can't answer a simple question. I'm trying to figure out what a person is actually doing when they cancel someone as opposed to when they boycotting. Like if I wanted to cancel something, what specific actions would I take. Apparently I'm supposed to do something quick that leaves no opportunity for redemption, but I have no idea what the fuck that thing is. 

If I say I'm not going to watch the Mandalorian unless Gina is fired and tell everyone I can to do the same, am I boycotting or cancelling? This shouldn't be hard if there is actually a distinction between they do.

At least you're honest enough to admit you don't give a shit about free speech until it effects something you like. And apparently not when it's not something like Christians suppressing gay portrayals in media. Just an issue when it's attacking media that you like...

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 14 February 2021

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sundin13 said:
sales2099 said:

I’m sorry I can’t describe it any easier. A boycott gives a small window for the affected party to do right, make amends and ultimately save their career and IP. Even if they get surrounded by controversy for years and take in less money, their career is in tact. Cancel culture gives no window, no notice, no room for apology. I honestly can’t make it simpler then this. 

And if you have a issue with cancel culture only referring to entertainment, then that’s not a discussion with me. I don’t make the rules I’m just talking within them. But if I had to put in my 2 cents, an entertainment Ip or content creator could make something that I invest myself in. Like the Mandalorian or Harry Potter. I could care less about a news anchor that I don’t watch or have no investment in. 

It does leave room for apology. You literally just referenced this when talking about Kevin Hart. He was "cancelled", made an apology and now he is just as rich and famous as ever. This also makes it ridiculous that you are imply that "cancelling" destroys people's careers. Look at Kevin Hart, Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel, Ellen, Chris Pratt. All of them were "cancelled" but they are still rich and famous and have "in tact" careers. 

This implication that "cancelling" deletes someone from existence is pure nonsense and simply repeating it over and over again doesn't make it true.

Also, the phrase "cancel culture" is not exclusive to entertainment. If you want to assert that, back it up with literally anything: 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cancel-culture

Like I said, left on left gives room to make it better because they the same ideology. Provides some leeway, Conservatives get the Gina Carano treatment. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

JWeinCom said:
sales2099 said:

I’m sorry I can’t describe it any easier. A boycott gives a small window for the affected party to do right, make amends and ultimately save their career and IP. Even if they get surrounded by controversy for years and take in less money, their career is in tact. Cancel culture gives no window, no notice, no room for apology. I honestly can’t make it simpler then this. 

And if you have a issue with cancel culture only referring to entertainment, then that’s not a discussion with me. I don’t make the rules I’m just talking within them. But if I had to put in my 2 cents, an entertainment Ip or content creator could make something that I invest myself in. Like the Mandalorian or Harry Potter. I could care less about a news anchor that I don’t watch or have no investment in. 

It's telling when someone can't answer a simple question. I'm trying to figure out what a person is actually doing when they cancel someone as opposed to when they boycotting. Like if I wanted to cancel something, what specific actions would I take.

If I say I'm not going to watch the Mandalorian unless Gina is fired and tell everyone I can to do the same, am I boycotting or cancelling? This shouldn't be hard if there is actually a distinction between they do.

At least you're honest enough to admit you don't give a shit about free speech until it effects something you like. And apparently not when it's not something like Christians suppressing gay portrayals in media. Just an issue when it's attacking media that you like...

It’s telling if you can’t meet me halfway on what I honestly believe is a simple distinction I made. Sorry we can’t agree on anything.

People care about what they are invested in, it’s human nature. How people use the term cancel culture and people liking what affects them personally is a culture issue you have, not with me. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
JWeinCom said:

It's telling when someone can't answer a simple question. I'm trying to figure out what a person is actually doing when they cancel someone as opposed to when they boycotting. Like if I wanted to cancel something, what specific actions would I take.

If I say I'm not going to watch the Mandalorian unless Gina is fired and tell everyone I can to do the same, am I boycotting or cancelling? This shouldn't be hard if there is actually a distinction between they do.

At least you're honest enough to admit you don't give a shit about free speech until it effects something you like. And apparently not when it's not something like Christians suppressing gay portrayals in media. Just an issue when it's attacking media that you like...

It’s telling if you can’t meet me halfway on what I honestly believe is a simple distinction I made. Sorry we can’t agree on anything.

People care about what they are invested in, it’s human nature. How people use the term cancel culture and people liking what affects them personally is a culture issue you have, not with me. 

My issue is with you, because you're the one using the term to arbitrarily limit speech you don't approve of.

I'm trying to meet you by asking a clarifying question. There's no way you can honestly believe that based on your description someone would know how to cancel things, and how to boycott them. 

What actions would I take to boycott something?

What actions would I take to cancel something?

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 14 February 2021

JWeinCom said:
sales2099 said:

It’s telling if you can’t meet me halfway on what I honestly believe is a simple distinction I made. Sorry we can’t agree on anything.

People care about what they are invested in, it’s human nature. How people use the term cancel culture and people liking what affects them personally is a culture issue you have, not with me. 

If I say I'm not going to watch the Mandalorian unless Gina is fired and tell everyone I can to do the same, am I boycotting or cancelling?

Thats a boycott. Because people likeminded as yourself only represent a certain percentage of the viewership. Many will still like the character, the actress, or simply not know/care what she says in her personal social media. Gina could also apologize, “bend the knee” and over time can appease some people like yourself if she says and does enough good to compensate for whatever wrong she may have done. Her career can remain in tact if she plays it right. 

Cancelling makes the choice for everybody involved regardless where they stand. It’s swift with no window, no chance to make it right. This is exactly what happened with Gina. It took literally hours for execs to make their decision. Please understand. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
JWeinCom said:

If I say I'm not going to watch the Mandalorian unless Gina is fired and tell everyone I can to do the same, am I boycotting or cancelling?

Thats a boycott. Because people likeminded as yourself only represent a certain percentage of the viewership. Many will still like the character, the actress, or simply not know/care what she says in her personal social media. Gina could also apologize, “bend the knee” and over time can appease some people like yourself if she says and does enough good to compensate for whatever wrong she may have done. Her career can remain in tact if she plays it right. 

Cancelling makes the choice for everybody involved regardless where they stand. It’s swift with no window, no chance to make it right. This is exactly what happened with Gina. It took literally hours for execs to make their decision. Please understand. 

But, that's exactly what people did here.

The thing that seems to make it "cancelling" is only the fact that Disney acted quickly, which the boycotters had no control over. If the boycotters did the exact same thing, but Disney waited two weeks, would it have no longer been cancelling?

Also, Gina had been posting things that upset people for quite some time, and seemingly had no intention of stopping. The firing was done quickly after the last post, but she had a lot of them.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/gina-carano-mandalorian-holocaust-trump-covid-b1800802.html

Whether you think those things should legitimately upset people or not is not relevant to the conversation (I wouldn't have fired her myself assuming I had no interest in Disney's reputation), but she had lots of opportunities to change her behavior to make it suit what she needs. She still has a chance to change it now and work with Disney on future projects. They didn't execute her. 

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 14 February 2021