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Forums - Gaming - Best console of the 20th century

 

I think the best is...

NES 9 6.47%
 
Super NES 50 35.97%
 
Megadrive/Genesis 1 0.72%
 
PS1 50 35.97%
 
N64 18 12.95%
 
Saturn 3 2.16%
 
Dreamcast 4 2.88%
 
Other 4 2.88%
 
Total:139
The_Liquid_Laser said:
Hynad said:

What you’re saying is an half truth. Part of the truth is that the industry in the US was in a slump, for sure. But in Japan and Europe, it wasn’t going through the same struggles. In case you don’t know, the US isn’t the world, and as such isn’t “The Industry”. And while it is undoubtedly one of the biggest markets right now, the industry at the time was continuing to grow elsewhere, regardless of the situation with the saturation caused by the second gen systems in the US.

(...)

You have changed the argument.  I am not talking about the "Game Industry".  I am talking about console gaming.  The NES saved console gaming.

We already agree that the NES revived console gaming in North America.
European gaming in the early-mid 80s was being developed on computers.  They were not developing any significant console worth mentioning.
That just leaves Japan.  

I do think another company, like Sega, could have made a decently successful system in Japan, but it would mostly have just stayed in Japan.  Nintendo had to do amazing things to revive console gaming in North America.  And console gaming never became that big in Europe until Sony entered the market, which is a result of their temporary partnering with Nintendo on the Nintendo Playstation.  Also console gaming, even in Japan, would be much smaller in Japan without the Famicom.  The kinds of successes that the Famicom was having in Japan were amazing in their own right, before the rest of the world even enters the picture.  The SMS could succeed in Brazil where there wasn't a significant movement in computer gaming, but not in North America or Europe.

In a world without the NES, computer gaming becomes the dominant platform instead of console gaming.  This is important, because the console market is naturally much bigger than the computer game market.  The C64 succeeded in the absence of consoles and sold about 16m units.  The NES sold about 4 times that amount a few years later.  That indicates that the console market is about 4 times larger than it would have been with just computer gaming alone.  Consoles are cheaper and more convenient than computers and that naturally leads to a much bigger gaming market.

So yes, Nintendo and the NES did save console gaming.  In a world without the NES, there is no reason to believe that people would have kept trying to make consoles when computer gaming had already proven to be successful.  The PC would have become the standard instead of the console.  And the most likely result is that the "Game Industry" would be about 1/4 of its current size.  Gaming would still be a decent sized industry, but still much smaller than what it actually did become because of the NES.

I obviously meant the home console industry as this is what I’ve been discussing the whole time. So spare me the “change the goal posts” crap.

But I see that you think nothing can ever be a thing if it’s not a thing in the US. That because the NES was the console that managed to take traction in the US, it can only be Nintendo, and the others can never ever possibly have continued investing in the industry beyond Gen 2, despite having continually invested in it and released systems prior and during the NES’s US launch. That if it’s not in the US, then it’s only in Japan, and Japan only.

Nintendo is single handedly responsible for everything that is good in the universe. And without them, there can’t possibly be anything. I often forget about that one.

Last edited by Hynad - on 06 February 2021

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Hynad said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

You have changed the argument.  I am not talking about the "Game Industry".  I am talking about console gaming.  The NES saved console gaming.

We already agree that the NES revived console gaming in North America.
European gaming in the early-mid 80s was being developed on computers.  They were not developing any significant console worth mentioning.
That just leaves Japan.  

I do think another company, like Sega, could have made a decently successful system in Japan, but it would mostly have just stayed in Japan.  Nintendo had to do amazing things to revive console gaming in North America.  And console gaming never became that big in Europe until Sony entered the market, which is a result of their temporary partnering with Nintendo on the Nintendo Playstation.  Also console gaming, even in Japan, would be much smaller in Japan without the Famicom.  The kinds of successes that the Famicom was having in Japan were amazing in their own right, before the rest of the world even enters the picture.  The SMS could succeed in Brazil where there wasn't a significant movement in computer gaming, but not in North America or Europe.

In a world without the NES, computer gaming becomes the dominant platform instead of console gaming.  This is important, because the console market is naturally much bigger than the computer game market.  The C64 succeeded in the absence of consoles and sold about 16m units.  The NES sold about 4 times that amount a few years later.  That indicates that the console market is about 4 times larger than it would have been with just computer gaming alone.  Consoles are cheaper and more convenient than computers and that naturally leads to a much bigger gaming market.

So yes, Nintendo and the NES did save console gaming.  In a world without the NES, there is no reason to believe that people would have kept trying to make consoles when computer gaming had already proven to be successful.  The PC would have become the standard instead of the console.  And the most likely result is that the "Game Industry" would be about 1/4 of its current size.  Gaming would still be a decent sized industry, but still much smaller than what it actually did become because of the NES.

I obviously meant the home console industry as this is what I’ve been discussing the whole time.

But I see that you think nothing can ever be a thing if it’s not a thing in the US. That because the NES was the console that managed to take traction in the US, it can only be Nintendo, and the others can never ever possibly have continued investing in the industry beyond Gen 2, despite having continually invested in it and released systems prior and during the NES’s US launch. That if it’s not in the US, then it’s only in Japan, and Japan only.

Nintendo is single handedly responsible for everything that is good in the universe. And without them, there can’t possibly be anything. I often forget about that one.

Fully agreed, can't say that happens often.



Trying to downplay the impact of the NES in the home console market based on if they had not done it, someome else could have is like saying Tampa isn't very relevant to the superbowl this year because another team would be there if they were not. The fact is Nintendo DID play a big part in saving the console market, regardless of if anyone else could have or not.

Having said that, to think that console gaming would not exist at all had the NES not been around is equally outlandish. But the fact remains that they do exist in this reality, and so they get the credit as that is what actually transpired. No amount of hypotheticals can change that.



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Raven said:
Hynad said:

I obviously meant the home console industry as this is what I’ve been discussing the whole time.

But I see that you think nothing can ever be a thing if it’s not a thing in the US. That because the NES was the console that managed to take traction in the US, it can only be Nintendo, and the others can never ever possibly have continued investing in the industry beyond Gen 2, despite having continually invested in it and released systems prior and during the NES’s US launch. That if it’s not in the US, then it’s only in Japan, and Japan only.

Nintendo is single handedly responsible for everything that is good in the universe. And without them, there can’t possibly be anything. I often forget about that one.

Fully agreed, can't say that happens often.

The clique is still watching me. I almost feel honoured..



Hynad said:
Raven said:

Fully agreed, can't say that happens often.

The clique is still watching me. I almost feel honoured..

A bit paranoid, but alrighty. Glad you see the value of the NES helping shape the videogame industry though!



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Raven said:
Hynad said:

The clique is still watching me. I almost feel honoured..

A bit paranoid, but alrighty. Glad you see the value of the NES helping shape the videogame industry though!

@italic: Not really, but I won’t push this further.

@bolded: It obviously did. That was never put into question.



The debate going on here is quite interesting, but it's one of those situations where no one can be right or wrong, because it's all hypothetical. Unless parallel universes exist and we discover a way to travel to them, we'll never know what would've happened if Nintendo and the NES weren't around in the eighties. Still, a chilled argument speculating on different scenarios is always very nice to read.



I'm mostly a lurker now.

While the SNES is inarguably my number 1, I find myself constantly unable to choose between the PS1 and N64.

Both were a big part of my youth. On the one hand, Banjo Kazooie, Tooie, Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, F-Zero X and Starfox 64 remain some of my most beloved games to this day, but then so do Crash Bandicoot 1-3, Spyro 1-3, and Crash Team Racing. PS1 obviously has a lot more games but I'd put the very best of N64 slightly above the very best of PS1. Screw it, it's a tie for #2.

Megadrive would be my #3.



The_Liquid_Laser said:
Hynad said:

What you’re saying is an half truth. Part of the truth is that the industry in the US was in a slump, for sure. But in Japan and Europe, it wasn’t going through the same struggles. In case you don’t know, the US isn’t the world, and as such isn’t “The Industry”. And while it is undoubtedly one of the biggest markets right now, the industry at the time was continuing to grow elsewhere, regardless of the situation with the saturation caused by the second gen systems in the US.

(...)

You have changed the argument.  I am not talking about the "Game Industry".  I am talking about console gaming.  The NES saved console gaming.

We already agree that the NES revived console gaming in North America.
European gaming in the early-mid 80s was being developed on computers.  They were not developing any significant console worth mentioning.
That just leaves Japan.  

I do think another company, like Sega, could have made a decently successful system in Japan, but it would mostly have just stayed in Japan.  Nintendo had to do amazing things to revive console gaming in North America.  And console gaming never became that big in Europe until Sony entered the market, which is a result of their temporary partnering with Nintendo on the Nintendo Playstation.  Also console gaming, even in Japan, would be much smaller in Japan without the Famicom.  The kinds of successes that the Famicom was having in Japan were amazing in their own right, before the rest of the world even enters the picture.  The SMS could succeed in Brazil where there wasn't a significant movement in computer gaming, but not in North America or Europe.

In a world without the NES, computer gaming becomes the dominant platform instead of console gaming.  This is important, because the console market is naturally much bigger than the computer game market.  The C64 succeeded in the absence of consoles and sold about 16m units.  The NES sold about 4 times that amount a few years later.  That indicates that the console market is about 4 times larger than it would have been with just computer gaming alone.  Consoles are cheaper and more convenient than computers and that naturally leads to a much bigger gaming market.

So yes, Nintendo and the NES did save console gaming.  In a world without the NES, there is no reason to believe that people would have kept trying to make consoles when computer gaming had already proven to be successful.  The PC would have become the standard instead of the console.  And the most likely result is that the "Game Industry" would be about 1/4 of its current size.  Gaming would still be a decent sized industry, but still much smaller than what it actually did become because of the NES.

Yeah... the console market, in US, become other thing. Other scale, nothing you can measure and think. Only crazy dreamings without data or history to backup this premise.

Last edited by Agente42 - on 06 February 2021