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Forums - Politics Discussion - Question to non-Americans

 

My Countries Education System Teaches our history accurately.

Strongly Agree 16 21.62%
 
Somewhat Agree 29 39.19%
 
Neutral 7 9.46%
 
Somewhat Disagree 14 18.92%
 
Strongly Disagree 8 10.81%
 
Total:74
Eagle367 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Considering a lot of people here are of European origin, I'd argue it would be sad if it wasn't. Especially for us Europeans, it definitely should be Eurocentric since it's the most relevant to us.

No I was talking about people from the new world aka The Americas plus people from Asia and Africa and Oceania. It's sad that even our history is only plagued with eurocentric views because we were colonies of some European kingdom in the past. We aren't taught about the great leaders, philosophers, poets, scientists, etc but we do learn about Newton, Plato, Shakespeare, etc. I would love to learn about history from all over the world in our schools, of course with more focus on our native lands. I learned more about some of the greats from other regions after school. There are a great many things that happened outside Europe like the arabic-indian numerals, algebra, a lot of research in all sorts of fields, great poetry and philosophy, etc.

The first man to discover how our eyes perceive light was not a European but rather a guy named Ibne-Al-Haytham. A lot of people knew about the world being a sphere before some European did. Ibne-Batuta travelled the world and was actually a great adventurer and role model unlike Columbus. There are so many great writers in Japan like Osamu Dazai and Ryonosuke, Odasaku, etc. Al-Jazari was a great inventor and his Book of knowledge of ingenious mechanical devices is something more people should know about. A lot of weird things are said about Al-Ghazali but he was a great thinker and should be taught about regardless of whether you're Muslim or not. Mansa Musa is regarded as the richest man in history so much so that when he went for Hajj, wherever he stopped, the economy of the place changed entirely. A many things were happening in Africa before the Europeans that we don't learn about like the kingdom of kush. I can go on and on but I am still learning about these people and I am sadly not knowledgeable as I should be. That's why it's sad that it's so eurocentric.

Well most of the people in the Americas are of European origin, the vast majority if you consider partial European ancestry too.

I don't think a lot of the things you mentioned should be in history class full stop. Indian numerals, algebra etc. should be in maths class. Poetry & writers in literature class (which should also be cancelled completely because literature is boring and teaching kids poetry should be considered child abuse!).

I would like a lot of the other history, I know of Mansa Musa for example and he (and the Mali empire) certainly seem like they'd be interesting), but I also think it should be in optional/additional classes. The focus during regular education should absolutely be national history. In most cases there isn't even enough time to cover national history in the amount of school history classes you do, so if you can't even do all of your own history then history from other places should definitely be extra later on, rather than further limiting the amount of national history that's taught. So on that basis I'd agree that countries such as yours should have minimal, if any, European history, but it should still be important for European countries, or former European colonies.

Edit: Oh and Shakespeare was in English literature class, rather than history class. Hence why I think other writers should be in literature class too. But it was the worst class ever so I'd rather it just get abolished completely!

Last edited by Ka-pi96 - on 21 January 2021

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Eagle367 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Considering a lot of people here are of European origin, I'd argue it would be sad if it wasn't. Especially for us Europeans, it definitely should be Eurocentric since it's the most relevant to us.

No I was talking about people from the new world aka The Americas plus people from Asia and Africa and Oceania. It's sad that even our history is only plagued with eurocentric views because we were colonies of some European kingdom in the past. We aren't taught about the great leaders, philosophers, poets, scientists, etc but we do learn about Newton, Plato, Shakespeare, etc. I would love to learn about history from all over the world in our schools, of course with more focus on our native lands. I learned more about some of the greats from other regions after school. There are a great many things that happened outside Europe like the arabic-indian numerals, algebra, a lot of research in all sorts of fields, great poetry and philosophy, etc.

The first man to discover how our eyes perceive light was not a European but rather a guy named Ibne-Al-Haytham. A lot of people knew about the world being a sphere before some European did. Ibne-Batuta travelled the world and was actually a great adventurer and role model unlike Columbus. There are so many great writers in Japan like Osamu Dazai and Ryonosuke, Odasaku, etc. Al-Jazari was a great inventor and his Book of knowledge of ingenious mechanical devices is something more people should know about. A lot of weird things are said about Al-Ghazali but he was a great thinker and should be taught about regardless of whether you're Muslim or not. Mansa Musa is regarded as the richest man in history so much so that when he went for Hajj, wherever he stopped, the economy of the place changed entirely. A many things were happening in Africa before the Europeans that we don't learn about like the kingdom of kush. I can go on and on but I am still learning about these people and I am sadly not knowledgeable as I should be. That's why it's sad that it's so eurocentric.

Again, most of the history outside of eurocentric and the topics covered for the non-eurocentric is what survived and had most impact in the world. There isn't much on the history of let's say congo or nepal that would really be relevant to anyone that isn't from there.



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Ka-pi96 said:
Eagle367 said:

No I was talking about people from the new world aka The Americas plus people from Asia and Africa and Oceania. It's sad that even our history is only plagued with eurocentric views because we were colonies of some European kingdom in the past. We aren't taught about the great leaders, philosophers, poets, scientists, etc but we do learn about Newton, Plato, Shakespeare, etc. I would love to learn about history from all over the world in our schools, of course with more focus on our native lands. I learned more about some of the greats from other regions after school. There are a great many things that happened outside Europe like the arabic-indian numerals, algebra, a lot of research in all sorts of fields, great poetry and philosophy, etc.

The first man to discover how our eyes perceive light was not a European but rather a guy named Ibne-Al-Haytham. A lot of people knew about the world being a sphere before some European did. Ibne-Batuta travelled the world and was actually a great adventurer and role model unlike Columbus. There are so many great writers in Japan like Osamu Dazai and Ryonosuke, Odasaku, etc. Al-Jazari was a great inventor and his Book of knowledge of ingenious mechanical devices is something more people should know about. A lot of weird things are said about Al-Ghazali but he was a great thinker and should be taught about regardless of whether you're Muslim or not. Mansa Musa is regarded as the richest man in history so much so that when he went for Hajj, wherever he stopped, the economy of the place changed entirely. A many things were happening in Africa before the Europeans that we don't learn about like the kingdom of kush. I can go on and on but I am still learning about these people and I am sadly not knowledgeable as I should be. That's why it's sad that it's so eurocentric.

Well most of the people in the Americas are of European origin, the vast majority if you consider partial European ancestry too.

I don't think a lot of the things you mentioned should be in history class full stop. Indian numerals, algebra etc. should be in maths class. Poetry & writers in literature class (which should also be cancelled completely because literature is boring and teaching kids poetry should be considered child abuse!).

I would like a lot of the other history, I know of Mansa Musa for example and he (and the Mali empire) certainly seem like they'd be interesting), but I also think it should be in optional/additional classes. The focus during regular education should absolutely be national history. In most cases there isn't even enough time to cover national history in the amount of school history classes you do, so if you can't even do all of your own history then history from other places should definitely be extra later on, rather than further limiting the amount of national history that's taught. So on that basis I'd agree that countries such as yours should have minimal, if any, European history, but it should still be important for European countries, or former European colonies.

Edit: Oh and Shakespeare was in English literature class, rather than history class. Hence why I think other writers should be in literature class too. But it was the worst class ever so I'd rather it just get abolished completely!

I wasn't strictly talking about history class. I was talking about the entire structure of classes that involve history in any way e.g literature, politics, world history, maths, etc. Also those people didn't know how to stay in their own region so most of the world has been a colony at some point

DonFerrari said:
Eagle367 said:

No I was talking about people from the new world aka The Americas plus people from Asia and Africa and Oceania. It's sad that even our history is only plagued with eurocentric views because we were colonies of some European kingdom in the past. We aren't taught about the great leaders, philosophers, poets, scientists, etc but we do learn about Newton, Plato, Shakespeare, etc. I would love to learn about history from all over the world in our schools, of course with more focus on our native lands. I learned more about some of the greats from other regions after school. There are a great many things that happened outside Europe like the arabic-indian numerals, algebra, a lot of research in all sorts of fields, great poetry and philosophy, etc.

The first man to discover how our eyes perceive light was not a European but rather a guy named Ibne-Al-Haytham. A lot of people knew about the world being a sphere before some European did. Ibne-Batuta travelled the world and was actually a great adventurer and role model unlike Columbus. There are so many great writers in Japan like Osamu Dazai and Ryonosuke, Odasaku, etc. Al-Jazari was a great inventor and his Book of knowledge of ingenious mechanical devices is something more people should know about. A lot of weird things are said about Al-Ghazali but he was a great thinker and should be taught about regardless of whether you're Muslim or not. Mansa Musa is regarded as the richest man in history so much so that when he went for Hajj, wherever he stopped, the economy of the place changed entirely. A many things were happening in Africa before the Europeans that we don't learn about like the kingdom of kush. I can go on and on but I am still learning about these people and I am sadly not knowledgeable as I should be. That's why it's sad that it's so eurocentric.

Again, most of the history outside of eurocentric and the topics covered for the non-eurocentric is what survived and had most impact in the world. There isn't much on the history of let's say congo or nepal that would really be relevant to anyone that isn't from there.

Sorry but I disagree completely. Many of the Europeans we study learned from people all over the world. All of it survived and ad influence in the modern world. It didn't just disappear. It's what you choose to learn. And the most impact thing is a bit ludicrous. It would seem that way if you only learn the eurocentric view which is a result of your education I guess. But the more history you learn, the more you realise there are a lot of holes in the eurocentric view and the more you realize how wrong your statement is.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Well most of the people in the Americas are of European origin, the vast majority if you consider partial European ancestry too.

I don't think a lot of the things you mentioned should be in history class full stop. Indian numerals, algebra etc. should be in maths class. Poetry & writers in literature class (which should also be cancelled completely because literature is boring and teaching kids poetry should be considered child abuse!).

I would like a lot of the other history, I know of Mansa Musa for example and he (and the Mali empire) certainly seem like they'd be interesting), but I also think it should be in optional/additional classes. The focus during regular education should absolutely be national history. In most cases there isn't even enough time to cover national history in the amount of school history classes you do, so if you can't even do all of your own history then history from other places should definitely be extra later on, rather than further limiting the amount of national history that's taught. So on that basis I'd agree that countries such as yours should have minimal, if any, European history, but it should still be important for European countries, or former European colonies.

Edit: Oh and Shakespeare was in English literature class, rather than history class. Hence why I think other writers should be in literature class too. But it was the worst class ever so I'd rather it just get abolished completely!

I wasn't strictly talking about history class. I was talking about the entire structure of classes that involve history in any way e.g literature, politics, world history, maths, etc. Also those people didn't know how to stay in their own region so most of the world has been a colony at some point

Who exactly do you mean? Europeans originated in Persia/India after all so that would be "their own region", right?

Last edited by Ka-pi96 - on 21 January 2021

Ka-pi96 said:
Eagle367 said:

I wasn't strictly talking about history class. I was talking about the entire structure of classes that involve history in any way e.g literature, politics, world history, maths, etc. Also those people didn't know how to stay in their own region so most of the world has been a colony at some point

Who exactly do you mean? Europeans originated in Persia/India after all so that would be "their own region", right?

What do you mean? Europeans didn't originate in Persia/India and even if they did, it wasn't their land. Europeans didn't discover the new world, it was there for a long while with people already there and hell it's said that Africans had reached it way before Columbus. Or was this some sort of joke I didn't understand? Either way, Europeans didn't know when to stop. From China to India to Australia to Indonesia to Malaysia to Afghanistan to most of the middle east and Africa, etc they tried to take control of it all. Today's Europeans are pretty chill but those people back then make me angry just thinking about them.



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As a brazilian I'm american and can't answer the thread.
I guess this answer a bit about how some country taughts its story too.



BraLoD said:

As a brazilian I'm american and can't answer the thread.
I guess this answer a bit about how some country taughts its story too.

I thought this might come up as it's been debated numerous times on VGC. 

The number of continents is not universally excepted or taught. It ranges 5-7 with people from the United States using 7, dividing North and South America.

That being said, only one nationality uses American to self-identify themselves.  I understand this is a sensitive issue for some reason and I don't want to derail the thread.  



 

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Eagle367 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Who exactly do you mean? Europeans originated in Persia/India after all so that would be "their own region", right?

What do you mean? Europeans didn't originate in Persia/India and even if they did, it wasn't their land. Europeans didn't discover the new world, it was there for a long while with people already there and hell it's said that Africans had reached it way before Columbus. Or was this some sort of joke I didn't understand? Either way, Europeans didn't know when to stop. From China to India to Australia to Indonesia to Malaysia to Afghanistan to most of the middle east and Africa, etc they tried to take control of it all. Today's Europeans are pretty chill but those people back then make me angry just thinking about them.

They did. Caucasian people originated in Persia/northern India. We're talking a LONG time ago, but that's where they were before they migrated into Europe.



Eagle367 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Who exactly do you mean? Europeans originated in Persia/India after all so that would be "their own region", right?

What do you mean? Europeans didn't originate in Persia/India and even if they did, it wasn't their land. Europeans didn't discover the new world, it was there for a long while with people already there and hell it's said that Africans had reached it way before Columbus. Or was this some sort of joke I didn't understand? Either way, Europeans didn't know when to stop. From China to India to Australia to Indonesia to Malaysia to Afghanistan to most of the middle east and Africa, etc they tried to take control of it all. Today's Europeans are pretty chill but those people back then make me angry just thinking about them.

Why do you get angry about what people did “back then”? Utterly pointless, unhelpful and nonsensical. I’m afraid getting angry about anything in history will do nothing to change it, so you’d be better off simply learning what is good to do and not so good to do and moving forward. Origins of science and maths and literature and art etc etc are all fascinating yet if you’re learning the core subject (maths for example) it’s utterly irrelevant who, what and where “discovered” the equations etc - it matters only that those who are learning it understand it now, in the present, to be able to do something useful with the knowledge. It’s good to keep the knowledge alive of who, what and where, for historical and cultural purposes, but pressing home the ethnicity or culture of the time of the supposed discoverers of anything is unhelpful and time consuming. Furthermore, being through the education system in the UK, I was never taught about the wonderful, magical European discoverers of everything under the sun; I was simply taught the core subject. I really don’t know where people get this idea that Europeans dance about the place thinking they’re the greatest species of anything ever in the whole universe, but it’s not the reality at all and most people are just trying to live their lives the best they can today. 



So in my case I think it depends. Im from Spain but basically education is more regulated by our autonomous community. With that and during high school it was mostly Civil war and Catalan nationalism, thats they only thing the would ask for univ entrance exams for example. Even if you could choose history related subjects like modern history it would just talk about both WW. I believe that european countries focus a lot on that but theres a lack of information in text books at least after that, no talking about cold war, korean war, cultural revolution... which I think are basics to have a bit of understanding about today's problems.