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Forums - Gaming - Cyberpunk 2077 Review Thread | 83 OC, 87 Meta

 

Predict which range Cyberpunk's meta score will fall in?

98-100 4 4.94%
 
95-97 5 6.17%
 
92-94 28 34.57%
 
89-91 21 25.93%
 
86-88 9 11.11%
 
83-85 5 6.17%
 
80-82 3 3.70%
 
Less than 80 6 7.41%
 
Undecided 0 0%
 
Total:81
coolbeans said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:

Gamespot reviews are garbage that is why people dont like them, its not because of the review system.

As much as I'm... iffy on their value judgments overall this is just a bullshit cover.  There isn't some upswell of complainers going after poor grammar or the like.  It's umbrage taken over critiques they consider 'trash' despite not even playing the game for themselves yet.  Even IF there are bad/hyperbolic points made, their hand was revealed too early.

What if that person wrote the exact same review but had given it a 9/10?  I guarantee they'd receive even less vitriol from the community at large, despite how mismatched the text and number would be.  Wanting better arguments by reviewers is totally fine; expecting everyone to adore 'the next hyped thing' in unison is stupid.

I don't expect reviewers to adore any game they review. But the whole idea of having 'professional reviewers' who contribute to aggregate sites, is so the average consumer can get a general idea on the quality of a title. Not so they have to try and weigh every reviewer's personal bias/frustrations with any given title.

The logic of 'every person has their own subjective view' is the same dumb excuse used when Jim Sterling dropped Breath of the Wild's Meta, in a rather blatant act of attention-seeking showmanship, yet people will still defend it. When a score/review is that much of an outlier compared to almost every other reviewer, there's clearly a disconnect, and they're likely not doing their job properly.

If you want to post opinionated views on games for everyone with your particular mindset, put it on your blog and the people who care will read it. If you're gonna contribute to an aggregate site as a professional reviewer, then be a professional. Is that too much to ask?



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Better than expected considering how janky the gameplay looked. One of my most anticipated titles for a long time, glad its getting good reception.



Ka-pi96 said:
Shaunodon said:

I don't expect reviewers to adore any game they review. But the whole idea of having 'professional reviewers' who contribute to aggregate sites, is so the average consumer can get a general idea on the quality of a title. Not so they have to try and weigh every reviewer's personal bias/frustrations with any given title.

The logic of 'every person has their own subjective view' is the same dumb excuse used when Jim Sterling dropped Breath of the Wild's Meta, in a rather blatant act of attention-seeking showmanship, yet people will still defend it. When a score/review is that much of an outlier compared to almost every other reviewer, there's clearly a disconnect, and they're likely not doing their job properly.

If you want to post opinionated views on games for everyone with your particular mindset, put it on your blog and the people who care will read it. If you're gonna contribute to an aggregate site as a professional reviewer, then be a professional. Is that too much to ask?

Why would you consider not copying everybody else "unprofessional"?

Plus there's really no point at all in even having aggregate sites if everybody has the same opinion. If everybody gives a game the same (or very similar) scores then why bother coalescing them on one site, why not just have people go to individual sites since they'd all be pretty much the same anyway.

As far as I'm concerned a professional reviewer would post their review, as is, regardless of what others think. Changing one's review just because a bunch of other people thought the game was better/worse than they did would be incredibly unprofessional.

Because the more sources that can reliably judge the quality of a game, and the more you have reaching a similar outcome, the more you should be able to trust that you're getting an accurate assessment.

It's not about everyone 'copying' eachother. That would be counter-productive. Obviously every reviewer should be independant. But if they're all doing their job correctly to judge the objective quality of a title, then they should all be delivering scores and points within a certain value to be accurate. Or are we going to have the argument now that 'objective quality isn't a thing'?

When 38 reviewers give it at least 90+, five more give it 80-85, and one gives it 78.. then those scores of 60 and 70 are big outliers. At least with the grading system Metacritic is judged by.

Saying 'they use their own grading system' only makes the matter worse. If you're gonna judge games by your own standard rather than the one that's universally recognised on the aggregate site, then you're only further muddying the data. You're not helping the average consumer.



I find GamesBeat's review to be particularly informative for someone like me who hoped (foolishly) for more depth and being it closer to tabletop experience, though I find that 3/5 stars doesn't translate well to 100 point scale, aside from (most likely) being a bit too harsh.



This game clearly isn’t a 94+ metacritic game - the sign of true greatness. In order to get 94+ far more reviewers should have given the game a 100 rather than a 90. It’s not like this is the only universally acclaimed game that has ever gotten a 70 60 50 or even 40 score from some reviewer.



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shikamaru317 said:
EnricoPallazzo said:

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense. I also dont understand why game reviews only use the upper portion of the score spectrum.

At the same time, this might be a problem when you consider the bonus of a lot of developers are usually also tied to a metacritic score.

And that right there is exactly my problem with Gamespot (and a few other sites) using a different review methodology than the industry standard. We live in an world where publishers sometimes give developers a bonus if their game reviews over a certain meta threshold (the Obsidian Fallout New Vegas situation is one of the most notable examples of this), some critics using the full 0-100 scale instead of the 50-100 scale can totally screw those devs out of a much needed bonus. 

You have a problem with Gamespot, but not publishers that tie bonuses to an arbitrary congregated score???

I've actually read the Gamespot review as well as Games beat and PC gamer and they make valid well constructed, backed up points to explain their scores. Yet not to 'screw' devs out of a bonus (which is not how CDPR works btw) they should get in line with the yes men and alter their scores?

Any site giving this game a perfect score, 100, in the state the game is currently in, is part of the problem. None of those even expect the day 1 patch to address all the issues, not any time soon after release. For example from one of the 100s, "but it’s not without fault. It’s let down by elements that should have been better; not the bugs, in particular (because they will be fixed), but things like the melee combat, the explanation of systems, the oppressive influx of side quests." Perfect score!

Let's blame the ones that actually reflect their impressions in a (still meaningless) score.

There was a glimmer of hope for reviews at the start of this gen when it briefly looked like we were getting a reversal from the bloated scores. It's worse now than ever with tons of small sites pushing out a 100 score asap for clicks. Leaving the ones with more realistic scores open to abuse.

Eurogamer had it right to get rid of scores and simply go with recommended, which isn't even based on how good the game actually is, just whether the reviewer would recommend it. Still you get the endless nonsense in the comments why one game got the one badge and not the other. Just read the text and decided for yourself what you find important. (Not that I'm saying you don't but people put way too much value on an average score)



Ka-pi96 said:
Shaunodon said:

Because the more sources that can reliably judge the quality of a game, and the more you have reaching a similar outcome, the more you should be able to trust that you're getting an accurate assessment.

It's not about everyone 'copying' eachother. That would be counter-productive. Obviously every reviewer should be independant. But if they're all doing their job correctly to judge the objective quality of a title, then they should all be delivering scores and points within a certain value to be accurate. Or are we going to have the argument now that 'objective quality isn't a thing'?

When 38 reviewers give it at least 90+, five more give it 80-85, and one gives it 78.. then those scores of 60 and 70 are big outliers. At least with the grading system Metacritic is judged by.

Saying 'they use their own grading system' only makes the matter worse. If you're gonna judge games by your own standard rather than the one that's universally recognised on the aggregate site, then you're only further muddying the data. You're not helping the average consumer.

Except if you specifically exclude sources that are different then you're actually reducing the accuracy.

Objective quality ISN'T a thing. On a technical level it is, in regards to frame rates and the like. Those are objective facts. They just are what they are, regardless of whether people "agree" or not. Whether a game is fun, enjoyable, has a good story, has interesting characters, looks good etc. are all subjective. If they weren't subjective then you wouldn't even need reviewers any more since you could just use a computer programme to determine the sole objective "quality" of a game. But they are subjective, there isn't one factual objective answer, there are countless subjective opinions.

You're also wrong about reviewers that use their own grading system affecting the data. That would be true if they only reviewed a tiny number of games. If they actually review a fair few games (which Gamespot certainly do) then the way they do their scores is widespread enough to be fair. All of those games are affected (positively or negatively) in the same way.

A computer system can't judge the human elements of entertainment or art, which is why we're meant to have reviewers with the necessary education, experience and wisdom to judge them to a certain degree.

But if everything is subjective, we may as well just grab 100 random gamers off the street and pay them to review every game. If there's no objective way to define the quality of a title, what's the point of even having 'professional reviewers'?

By your logic, nothing a majority of reviewers say will be helpful anyway. Makes me wonder why someone with that mindset would even look at aggregate scores or come to these threads. Why not just find one who directly shares your mindset and only listen to them.



shikamaru317 said:

Lower than I was expecting. That 70 from Gamespot and 60 from Gamesbeat really hurt it.

Looks like CD Projekt won't be pulling off the hat trick of increasing their review scores 5 straight times in a row.

Doesn't matter.



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

shikamaru317 said:

No, it's 100% shitty that publishers pull that bs on devs, I agree with you there (though efficiency bonuses are common in many industries, my dad works on a printing press and gets large gift cards whenever his press manages to print over 97% useable pages for a month). I'm just saying that some publishers do pull that metacritic bonus BS, and we have sites with totally different review methodologies across the industry, some only using the 50-100 portion of the scale and some using the full 0-100 scale; the critics that choose to use the full 0-100 scale instead of the industry standard 50-100 scale that most use, create a system that is rigged against these developers who are unlucky enough to be paid a bonus based on metacritic performance. I wonder how many of them realize the damage they may be doing to those devs, or if they only care about doing their own job of reviewing games.

Don't you realize how wrong this sounds? The problem lies 100% with the publishers. Efficiency bonuses tied to efficiency make sense, as well as sharing part of the profit with the employees (as CDPR does). Buyers are the ultimate critics in the end. It wouldn't make sense to tie a bonus to how some arbitrary reviewers judge the quality of the paper printed by your dad.

Plus it's Metacritic's fault for not aggregating scores in a balanced way. Either they should stretch all the 50-100 scores to a 0-100 scale, or compress the 0-100 scores to the 50-100 scale. Then you have the 1 to 5 star reviews, how do hey handle that.

Basically you're asking to put any integrity aside in fear of developers missing out on a bonus. How can any reviews be trusted anymore when this practice exists. What is the point of a review nowadays. Not that journalistic integrity is still a thing ugh.

Anyway now more than ever it doesn't make sense to buy day one anymore, let alone pre-order. You get a still unfinished product with rushed reviews that can't tell you how the game actually is in the long run. We went from slamming games for day 1 problems to now assuming that everything will be fixed asap. There's only one thing certain, you can't tie a score to a game on day one. The times of games being complete and static from launch are long gone.

Metacritic is only good for list wars, nothing else :/



shikamaru317 said:

Honestly this whole discussion may be purely academic. I'm not even sure if there are still some publishers doing the whole metacritic bonus thing, after Bethesda pulled it on Obsidian and got called out on it, creating a bunch of negative PR for them. Hopefully the practice was abolished after that, but I'm not sure if it was or wasn't. 

I also agree that it would be nice if Metacritic and Opencritic took sites different review scales into account when averaging the scores, but I don't think they do, I think Metacritic at least only weights review scores based on how popular a gaming site is, the most popular sites like IGN and Gamespot having a higher weight put on their scores than the less popular sites do, and I don't think Opencritic weights scores at all. 

Ha, weighing the 'alternative' score heavier. I can see why putting different weights on less trusted sites but that's a whole other can of worms I used to visit gamerankings up to a  couple gens ago, I see they closed last year. I don't know how they dealt with the influx of new review sites. Back then you mostly had big sites coming from actual magazines like Edge making up the combined scores (Are they gone as well?)

It's all a bit of a mess nowadays with who knows how many goty awards and every new game there are new review sites I've never heard of before lol. For example, when half-life 2 came out
https://web.archive.org/web/20041117043434/http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/914642.asp
The average review ratio for all 13 editorial reviews has been 97.6%, which went up to 24 selected reviews by the 20th (97.4%)
There are 81 reviews on Metacritic for half-life 2... No way to tell which are original.

It is what it is, 46 'reviews' already for Cyberpunk and another 18 pending and the game isn't even out yet, and that's just based on the PC version.
The last of us pt 2, 121 'critic' reviews LOL Things have gotten out of hand, that's over double the reviews compared to the biggest blockbuster movies.