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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Sony Japan Studio director Keiichiro Toyama, and 2 other veterans, leave to form new studio, Bokeh

There goes the Silent Hill rumor. At least as for now.

And that also further proves that the Bloomberg's report is true. Sad to see Sony sidelining Japan.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

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sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

And what does it mean to you? Because you were already exposed to the games not being affected by it and called that defensive, so were you attacking?

It means there’s some retention problems with high level employees, nothing more. Sure the end users like us don’t feel any impacts, hence me just making an observation. That guys tone warranted my reply, it was said differently then how you said it. 

Considering the whole market doesn't seem a Sony problem. Movement in the industry is quite normal, but since Sony Studios are very proeminent they get a lot of coverage when anyone leaves



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

sales2099 said:
mjk45 said:

On the front page now we have an article of two devs from upper management leaving Bioware, but we don't have a thread about an  EA exodus.

The industry has people moving all the time, the difference now is anyone from the CEO to the Janitor leaves, VGChartz makes an article so it has more exposure now.

As to why the movement of Sony's personnel seems to hold intrigue compared to movement elsewhere, without any negatives from those moving on to drive the interest or data showing there is a unaccountable spike in movement,I would conjecture that it comes down to human nature. 

That being that we tend to see things we align with/like from a glass half full positive standpoint, while starting from a more glass half empty critical approach towards those that don't.

Well it’s news like this coupled with seemingly every 2 months I read that The Initiative poached another Sony dev. So there’s that. Also didn’t the Days Gone dev have a departure too?

Like I said you are seeing more reporting on these movements, but for some reason someone leaving a Sony Studio becomes leaving Sony while elsewhere it is more likely tied to a particular studio, another factor you have to take into account is scheduling most of Sony big games have come out in the last few years and that tends to be the time that movement is at it's peak, plus the way the media portrays this is  you get headlines ND developer leaves,only to find out that he/she  was there for less than 2 years on a short term contract but only the headline gets attention.



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

twintail said:
sales2099 said:

It means there’s some retention problems with high level employees, nothing more. Sure the end users like us don’t feel any impacts, hence me just making an observation. That guys tone warranted my reply, it was said differently then how you said it. 

Whether it was your intention or not, there's no denying that your comment of employees moving to 'the competition' and ending your comment with 'intriguing' reads in bad faith. It's as if you are under some suspicion that Sony is bleeding talent because of company culture. 

Again, that may not be your intention, but you have a very obvious habit of entering Sony threads and making similar underhanded comments.

Nautilus said:

There goes the Silent Hill rumor. At least as for now.

And that also further proves that the Bloomberg's report is true. Sad to see Sony sidelining Japan.

Not necessarily for either. Sony Japan underwent a massive restructuring back in April, giving the studio's external development arm far more importance.

Considering that SCEJA is mostly an external development studio, this move is only a positive thing. 

As for Silent Hill, the departure of these employees depends entirely on how long into development the game is. While the director leaving surely is problematic, it's not unheard of in the gaming industry.

As long as enough development to understand the broad strokes of the game has been accomplished, 3 employees leaving is not going to drastically jeopardize the game's development. 

Regarding the Silent Hill part I agree.

But about Sony sidelining Japan... how many Japan developed games have Sony (internally) developed in recent years? Couple that with the fact that Sony feels more like a western company than ever, and that the PS5 japanese shipments are abysmal (to say the least), and it"s pretty clear that Sony focus is not in Japan. It's still an important market for Sony, there is no doubt about that, but they clearly aren"t giving as much attention as they are giving the US and Europe, for example. At least compared to previous gens.

I mean, it makes financial sense, but that could bring long term problems for Sony.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

twintail said:
Nautilus said:

Regarding the Silent Hill part I agree.

But about Sony sidelining Japan... how many Japan developed games have Sony (internally) developed in recent years? Couple that with the fact that Sony feels more like a western company than ever, and that the PS5 japanese shipments are abysmal (to say the least), and it"s pretty clear that Sony focus is not in Japan. It's still an important market for Sony, there is no doubt about that, but they clearly aren"t giving as much attention as they are giving the US and Europe, for example. At least compared to previous gens.

I mean, it makes financial sense, but that could bring long term problems for Sony.

I understand where you are coming from. but I can't say I fully agree.

SCEJA internally made games are like a drop in the ocean to their overall portfolio, and has been so ever since they began making games. I think their first truly internally developed title was Ape Escape in 1998. By that point they were probably already like 30 games deep. Many of us seem to forget that externally developed games are the bread and butter of SCEJA.

But they have been moving to solidifying themselves alongside the studios in SCEA and SCEE, who have become well-established in making critically and commercially successful titles on a consistent basis. Unfortunately, SCEJA haven't been able to copy this.

By making the external development side of their business a separate division now, they can focus on their internal stuff too. And I would imagine that they are focusing on bigger and better stuff. The PS5 gen is really where all the hard work of restructuring since the end of the PS3 gen will start to show. It sucks that Toyama is leaving, but in reality it's not like he has been providing SCEJA the level of success they are looking for anyways.

As for PS5 shipments, I believe they pretty much sold out what they sent. And honestly, I think it's time ppl started seeing Japan for what it is: a mobile major demographic. It's been like this for the last 2 gens (PS3 and PS4). Sony isn't giving Japan the cold-shoulder: they have merely recalculated how much focus the region should be getting. And that makes sense. The PS4 isn't even at 10 million units sold in Japan and realistically, the PS5 ain't going to hit 10 million either.

tldr: Sony isn't shifting away from Japan. Hardware wise they know what they can realistically sell. Software wise, SCEJA is being primed for better success while continuing their external development output. SCEJA is going to be fine unless there are mass layouts (which could happen, who kows)

Regarding the part about game development, you are probably right. Won't fight you there.

But about ther rest: Sony sold all the shipment it sent because it sent almost nothing. It would be the same as Nintendo or Xbox celebrating that it sold all it's 50k units it sent for launch week. It may be sold out, but it's only sold out because there was barely no stock there. That's not a win. That's a clear admission that they don't expect much from Japan.

And Japan is not a mobile-centric demographics. If that was the case, the Switch Lite would be the best selling SKU of the Switch. It isn't, and it's not even close. If it was a mobile centric country, games like Ring Fit wouldn't sell, because it only works in the Switch home console mode. It's been sold out for more than a year there, and it has recently passed the 1 million mark if I'm not mistaken. Switch wouldn't be breaking records left and right either, and wouldn't have the potential to be the best selling console there.

People should stop making excuses for Sony poor performance in Japan.Sony is doing bad there because their product dosen't appeal to them anymore. It's not because the demographic had "grown" over games. It's because that, compared to competitors like Nintendo, Sony dosen't make the cut anymore. It's seen as an "inferior" product for them. Sony hasn't adapted their product to Japan's growing needs, so they were cast out. That's all there is to it.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

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twintail said:
Nautilus said:

Regarding the part about game development, you are probably right. Won't fight you there.

But about ther rest: Sony sold all the shipment it sent because it sent almost nothing. It would be the same as Nintendo or Xbox celebrating that it sold all it's 50k units it sent for launch week. It may be sold out, but it's only sold out because there was barely no stock there. That's not a win. That's a clear admission that they don't expect much from Japan.

And Japan is not a mobile-centric demographics. If that was the case, the Switch Lite would be the best selling SKU of the Switch. It isn't, and it's not even close. If it was a mobile centric country, games like Ring Fit wouldn't sell, because it only works in the Switch home console mode. It's been sold out for more than a year there, and it has recently passed the 1 million mark if I'm not mistaken. Switch wouldn't be breaking records left and right either, and wouldn't have the potential to be the best selling console there.

People should stop making excuses for Sony poor performance in Japan.Sony is doing bad there because their product dosen't appeal to them anymore. It's not because the demographic had "grown" over games. It's because that, compared to competitors like Nintendo, Sony dosen't make the cut anymore. It's seen as an "inferior" product for them. Sony hasn't adapted their product to Japan's growing needs, so they were cast out. That's all there is to it.

But the Switch is a portable device. 

And Japan is also in the midst of the Covid 19 pandemic...

The Switch is a hybrid system. It works as both, and is used as both, as inumerous surveys from Nintendo and third party shows, and as many other evidence shows, clearly stated in my previous post.Just as much as it is used as a portable system, it is also heavily used as a stationary system in Japan.

And what does the Coronavirus has anything to do with the Switch doing well/bad and the PS5 doing well/bad?



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

twintail said:
Nautilus said:

The Switch is a hybrid system. It works as both, and is used as both, as inumerous surveys from Nintendo and third party shows, and as many other evidence shows, clearly stated in my previous post.Just as much as it is used as a portable system, it is also heavily used as a stationary system in Japan.

And what does the Coronavirus has anything to do with the Switch doing well/bad and the PS5 doing well/bad?

The simple fact that it can be used portably is counteractive to the point you are trying to make.

IF the switch was solely a console and it was selling well, then you would have an argument on your hands. 

But that isn't the case. As long as the switch has the advantage of being portable in a portable market means that it was always going to see a level or success that console only devices wouldn't be able to.

Dual usage of the Switch is of course a selling point too. If you own the device for it's portability first, that doesn't mean that you disregard it's functionality as a console. 

And Covid 19 means that many ppl in Japan underwent a lockdown period too. So console based games are naturally going to see a lift (as we've seen in other markets too).R

Ringfit selling well doesn't tell us that consoles can thrive in Japan. It tells us that console software can.

But again, as long as the Switch allows itself to be portable, you can't make the argument that consoles can sell well in Japan unless you have a actual evidence that a large enough percentage of ppl are buying the switch 100% only for console use. 

Provide that evidence then we can discuss this further. 

Switch is the console of schroedinger. When it is of convenience, let's say someone point out lack of power, then "it is a portable system so it won't have the same power as a console", but if someone say it doesn't directly compete with PS or Xbox "it is a console so it compete", etc.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

twintail said:
Nautilus said:

The Switch is a hybrid system. It works as both, and is used as both, as inumerous surveys from Nintendo and third party shows, and as many other evidence shows, clearly stated in my previous post.Just as much as it is used as a portable system, it is also heavily used as a stationary system in Japan.

And what does the Coronavirus has anything to do with the Switch doing well/bad and the PS5 doing well/bad?

The simple fact that it can be used portably is counteractive to the point you are trying to make.

IF the switch was solely a console and it was selling well, then you would have an argument on your hands. 

But that isn't the case. As long as the switch has the advantage of being portable in a portable market means that it was always going to see a level or success that console only devices wouldn't be able to.

Dual usage of the Switch is of course a selling point too. If you own the device for it's portability first, that doesn't mean that you disregard it's functionality as a console. 

And Covid 19 means that many ppl in Japan underwent a lockdown period too. So console based games are naturally going to see a lift (as we've seen in other markets too).R

Ringfit selling well doesn't tell us that consoles can thrive in Japan. It tells us that console software can.

But again, as long as the Switch allows itself to be portable, you can't make the argument that consoles can sell well in Japan unless you have a actual evidence that a large enough percentage of ppl are buying the switch 100% only for console use. 

Provide that evidence then we can discuss this further. 

I did provide the evidence. You are the one that simply ignored it. And against that, there is nothing I can do.

The simple fact is, Sony isn't selling well in Japan. And it's it's own fault for that. Nintendo managed to find a solution, both hardware and software wise, that accomodates to Japan new tastes and to those that like the tradicional style. In a way, that is the true genius  of the Switch and it's hybrid system. It can be a home console and a portable console, and have almost zero drawbacks on both modes, outside of having a bit less power compared to it's competitors(an aspect that is becomming less and less relevant)

But more than that, Sony dosen't have the games that appeal to the japanese audience. If you look at the PS4 sales it was obviously the right decision, but their focus on having more western-focused games, while the third party fill the holes for more japanese-centric titles, clearly hasn't worked too well for Japan. Outside of a few exceptions like Ghost of Tsushima(which seems to be doing well over there), Sony dosen't have a killer app for Japan, and that's a consequence of almost all of it's studios being western.While Nintendo is the opposite. But the difference being that most Nintendo games have a wide appeal, meaning that it sells well regardless of the territory, due to the thematics of the games they make, and how polished and fun they are.

Aagin, it makes sense. Sony is extremely popular right now. It's games are selling better than ever, and if the price to pay is to lose "territory" in just one region, so be it. After all, the PS5 had the biggest Sony launch ever( showing that COVID has zero impact on sales or distribution. If anything, it's actually helping), so Sony is obviously doing something right.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

twintail said:
Nautilus said:

I did provide the evidence. You are the one that simply ignored it. And against that, there is nothing I can do.

The simple fact is, Sony isn't selling well in Japan. And it's it's own fault for that. Nintendo managed to find a solution, both hardware and software wise, that accomodates to Japan new tastes and to those that like the tradicional style. In a way, that is the true genius  of the Switch and it's hybrid system. It can be a home console and a portable console, and have almost zero drawbacks on both modes, outside of having a bit less power compared to it's competitors(an aspect that is becomming less and less relevant)

But more than that, Sony dosen't have the games that appeal to the japanese audience. If you look at the PS4 sales it was obviously the right decision, but their focus on having more western-focused games, while the third party fill the holes for more japanese-centric titles, clearly hasn't worked too well for Japan. Outside of a few exceptions like Ghost of Tsushima(which seems to be doing well over there), Sony dosen't have a killer app for Japan, and that's a consequence of almost all of it's studios being western.While Nintendo is the opposite. But the difference being that most Nintendo games have a wide appeal, meaning that it sells well regardless of the territory, due to the thematics of the games they make, and how polished and fun they are.

Aagin, it makes sense. Sony is extremely popular right now. It's games are selling better than ever, and if the price to pay is to lose "territory" in just one region, so be it. After all, the PS5 had the biggest Sony launch ever( showing that COVID has zero impact on sales or distribution. If anything, it's actually helping), so Sony is obviously doing something right.

But you didn't provide anything. Just because the device is also used heavily as a console device is not the same thing as ONLY as a console device.

Your words literally do not exclude portability as the core reasoning for owning the Switch.

Not like it matters. I don't think you have any idea how the Japanese market has changed. But it is what it is. 

Yet again, I did provide proofs. The fact that the only thing you are doing is trying to be dismissive just shows that you have no way to counter any of my arguments. I mean I do understand, you can't because there isn't any proof in favor.

And once again, like I already explained to you, the Switch success has more to do than the fact that it's a hybrid system. It has games that appeal to that audience, has a more friendly design overall to the japanese(*cough*didn't do anything close to something like changing the X and O usual roles *cough*), and it has stronger brands that resonate more with that public. Hell, we even have data from Nintendo themselves that points out that the console is used as much as a portable system as a stationary one. I know you are going to ignore all these points and just vomit the "The market there only likes portability now" excuse, but I wanted to make those points clear again.

Honestly, at this point in time, the only people that look at the hard data and somehow reaches the conclusion of:

Are people that are lying to themselves. As if Sony couldn't have done better because they did all they could( Hell, the Vita was an early sign that Sony didn't understand the japanese market anymore. Screwed up the hardware, and had almost zero games(first party wise) that appealed to the japanese market).

The bottom line is that, with the huge success that Sony began seeing with their western developed games and their overall philosofy, Sony went all in on them and it payed off, even if they knew that it would eventually come at the cost of the japanese market in the long term.That's how we got Uncharted, God of War, Horizon, Ghost of Tsushima, Days Gone, Spiderman, etc. Hell, even most japanese developed games(that were commissioned by Sony) had a focus on the western market, like Bloodborne(Dark Souls is far more popular in the west than in Japan).

If I were in charge of Sony, I would do the same as them. So like I said, they made the right call. But it's just a fact that, in result of that strategy, Japan got sidelined.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1