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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Verge - Xbox and PS5 gap - MS response

Azzanation said:
eva01beserk said:

The power narrative was an excuse the xbox fans had as a way to dismiss the need of exclusive games. You trying to acuse now that it swings to whoever has the power is a blatant lie that wont deceive anybody. The xboxs battle cry was always "best place to play multiplats" or "its multiplats that sell consoles". This is why you are seeing them hoping that dev tools will change and the xbox will pull ahead in the future because they dont want the conversation to go back to exclusive games. 

You clearly sit on one side of the fence with that post. Power was a narrative at the start of last generation and changed mid way through. It was all the talk, however it seems you are in denial of it. I heard the same power narrative with the PS3 vs 360 with its incredibly powerful Cell Processor. Lets not talk crap here. They all do it, this is not a one sided affair.

Power was one of many narratives at the start of last gen. Alone with drm and price and Kinect. And I understand as during launch there where barely any new games. So yea it changed mid way when Sony started pushing out great games and MS basicly stop. And it also happened during 7th I guess, I was not here for that. But I'm gona go on a limb and say it also stoped when it was clear that Sony was not gona pull ahead but their games Sure did. 

For some odd reason GAMES tend to be the focus of GAMING CONSOLES and every other topic falls to the side eventually. 

Edit: reminds me of the x1s 4k br player. It was gona change the market because that was a feture that put ps2 and ps3 ahead. Obiously not the games. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

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eva01beserk said:
Azzanation said:

You clearly sit on one side of the fence with that post. Power was a narrative at the start of last generation and changed mid way through. It was all the talk, however it seems you are in denial of it. I heard the same power narrative with the PS3 vs 360 with its incredibly powerful Cell Processor. Lets not talk crap here. They all do it, this is not a one sided affair.

Power was one of many narratives at the start of last gen. Alone with drm and price and Kinect. And I understand as during launch there where barely any new games. So yea it changed mid way when Sony started pushing out great games and MS basicly stop. And it also happened during 7th I guess, I was not here for that. But I'm gona go on a limb and say it also stoped when it was clear that Sony was not gona pull ahead but their games Sure did. 

For some odd reason GAMES tend to be the focus of GAMING CONSOLES and every other topic falls to the side eventually. 

Edit: reminds me of the x1s 4k br player. It was gona change the market because that was a feture that put ps2 and ps3 ahead. Obiously not the games. 

Power never determines a consoles success, however it doesn't mean it was never the narrative, the internet blows up, the fanboys start fighting while the average consumer really doesn't care, normally its the price that makes a bigger difference for them. If we want to be calling Xbox out for being power driven, than Sony has to be called out too. They pushed power with almost all their generations dating back to the PS2 vs Dreamcast with their Emotion Engine etc. Much like Xbox and Nintendo when they have/had the advantages.



Azzanation said:
eva01beserk said:

The power narrative was an excuse the xbox fans had as a way to dismiss the need of exclusive games. You trying to acuse now that it swings to whoever has the power is a blatant lie that wont deceive anybody. The xboxs battle cry was always "best place to play multiplats" or "its multiplats that sell consoles". This is why you are seeing them hoping that dev tools will change and the xbox will pull ahead in the future because they dont want the conversation to go back to exclusive games. 

You clearly sit on one side of the fence with that post. Power was a narrative at the start of last generation and changed mid way through. It was all the talk, however it seems you are in denial of it. I heard the same power narrative with the PS3 vs 360 with its incredibly powerful Cell Processor. Lets not talk crap here. They all do it, this is not a one sided affair.

You don’t even have to go back to last gen when it comes to NeoGAF and the power gap. Before the Cerny event all GAF could talk about was how the PS5 would be a 15TF beast with 32GB of RAM. That’s what spawned the “Xbox Power King Meme” thread there, a direct result of SonyGAF’s nonsense. From there the narrative shifted to SSD and I/O but it came back to the power narrative with FUD about how PS5 is actually more like RDNA2.5 while X|S is more 1.5. It’s pointless to debate about which side “started it” there, both sides have console warriors that take the FUD and bullshit to new levels. You’re right about that no doubt.



Azzanation said:
eva01beserk said:

Power was one of many narratives at the start of last gen. Alone with drm and price and Kinect. And I understand as during launch there where barely any new games. So yea it changed mid way when Sony started pushing out great games and MS basicly stop. And it also happened during 7th I guess, I was not here for that. But I'm gona go on a limb and say it also stoped when it was clear that Sony was not gona pull ahead but their games Sure did. 

For some odd reason GAMES tend to be the focus of GAMING CONSOLES and every other topic falls to the side eventually. 

Edit: reminds me of the x1s 4k br player. It was gona change the market because that was a feture that put ps2 and ps3 ahead. Obiously not the games. 

Power never determines a consoles success, however it doesn't mean it was never the narrative, the internet blows up, the fanboys start fighting while the average consumer really doesn't care, normally its the price that makes a bigger difference for them. If we want to be calling Xbox out for being power driven, than Sony has to be called out too. They pushed power with almost all their generations dating back to the PS2 vs Dreamcast with their Emotion Engine etc. Much like Xbox and Nintendo when they have/had the advantages.

Thats basically what I said. When there are no games to talk about, power and many other things are the center of attention and no time is this more evident than at the start of a gen when  there are slim pickings. So thats something in past gens that I dont have to be on forums to know it was happening. But again im willing to bet that as those gens started kicking out their big hitters the conversation always switched back to the games each console can offer. So all that braging means nothing if you have nothing to show for it. Something thats more evident than ever as we see here with ps5 vs xsx. 

Definitely agree that price has a huge impact. Its the reason I went with the wii over the ps3, also zelda. But I ended up loving so many more games that came on the wii than on the ps3. Except the last of us, I still believe that was the game of that generation. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:

It is fun to see on neogaf how many are complaining about Sony fans gloating of the small victories on the face-offs, since those were the people that were touting the performance king for Xbox and for a whole year mocked the Sony fans there.

Who are the same people who mock the base X1 model to the PS4 and gloated about the PS4's power advantages. Come on Don, it swings both ways here. Power only matters when the ball is in their court, doesn't matter what side of the fence you are sitting on. 

And its extremely odd that this seems to be affecting more Sony people on this website, i rarely hear complaints on the Xbox side about having less fidelity in the launch games. Why does it matter so much? People act like what ever console is more powerful than the other is the most powerful in general, its liek they forget PC gaming exists all of a sudden.

You can name them, do it.

And read again what was posted. Go to the face-off threads on neogaf and you'll see people complaining about the gloating and talking about the delayed tools. If Xbox fans weren't complaining how would some of DF staff saying they are receiving a lot of bad message from that crowd or why would MS be responding?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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shikamaru317 said:

Tom also released an article citing several developers who who wished to remain anonymous, saying that the Series S | X launch issues are mainly due to late dev kits (sent out months after PS5 dev kits) and incomplete dev tools (MS themselves said in official documents that the dev tools wouldn’t be finished until after the Xbox Series launch).

I’m interested to see if these AC Valhalla and Dirt 5 patches close the gap on those games.

It is on this article as well.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Azzanation said:
eva01beserk said:

Power was one of many narratives at the start of last gen. Alone with drm and price and Kinect. And I understand as during launch there where barely any new games. So yea it changed mid way when Sony started pushing out great games and MS basicly stop. And it also happened during 7th I guess, I was not here for that. But I'm gona go on a limb and say it also stoped when it was clear that Sony was not gona pull ahead but their games Sure did. 

For some odd reason GAMES tend to be the focus of GAMING CONSOLES and every other topic falls to the side eventually. 

Edit: reminds me of the x1s 4k br player. It was gona change the market because that was a feture that put ps2 and ps3 ahead. Obiously not the games. 

Power never determines a consoles success, however it doesn't mean it was never the narrative, the internet blows up, the fanboys start fighting while the average consumer really doesn't care, normally its the price that makes a bigger difference for them. If we want to be calling Xbox out for being power driven, than Sony has to be called out too. They pushed power with almost all their generations dating back to the PS2 vs Dreamcast with their Emotion Engine etc. Much like Xbox and Nintendo when they have/had the advantages.

You seem to confuse fan bickering with company marketing and media coverage.

Sony didn't said PS4 was the strongest for several months before launch. They said how many Tflops it had, that it was easy to develop (acknowledging PS3 wasn't) and that they worked to make it very balanced (removing as many bottlenecks as they could), fans run with it. MS gone in defense mode and had Albert Penello saying:

"I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe," Penello wrote on NeoGAF. "There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance."

"People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their [hardware] skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious."

So if don't try to rewrite the story you'll see that the company that have been talking about power and how the competitor compared was MS with they not being behind in X1, with X1X being the most powerful ever, and now with XSX it is the most powerful ever again then got changed to most powerful xbox ever. Sony didn't gave a fuck to Xbox or mentioning them, fans did.

And to compliment on launch the games were considerably performing better on PS4 instead of X1 so no one needed to find excuses (although we got articles saying the resolution difference didn't matter and that fps was the deal). This time the problem is that while everyone was expecting Xbox to outperform PS5 considerably (with the likes of Tom from Verge and Colt Eastwood thinking it could even reach 40-50% advantage and Albert Penello - yes again - saying that even Series S would end up outperforming PS5 because PS5 wouldn't be able to keep framerate) the games told a different story so we got excuses and complains.

On your point about power not being much relevant, yes most of us agree, but on your price deciding the outcome so will Series S outsell PS5?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Azzanation said:

Who are the same people who mock the base X1 model to the PS4 and gloated about the PS4's power advantages. Come on Don, it swings both ways here. Power only matters when the ball is in their court, doesn't matter what side of the fence you are sitting on. 

And its extremely odd that this seems to be affecting more Sony people on this website, i rarely hear complaints on the Xbox side about having less fidelity in the launch games. Why does it matter so much? People act like what ever console is more powerful than the other is the most powerful in general, its liek they forget PC gaming exists all of a sudden.

You can name them, do it.

And read again what was posted. Go to the face-off threads on neogaf and you'll see people complaining about the gloating and talking about the delayed tools. If Xbox fans weren't complaining how would some of DF staff saying they are receiving a lot of bad message from that crowd or why would MS be responding?

Don, i personally don't care as much as you do when it comes to face off threads and neogaf etc, i know their are Xbox fanboys gloating, but there are also PS fanboys gloating too. You like to act when one side does it and tend to defend or ignore the other side doing it. I game mainly on PC now and i wont be buying a XSX or PS5 anytime soon, so whatever the fanboys want to claim they will claim. Does it affect me? not one bit, but lets not pretend this is all Xbox's doing. Sony were gloating about power before Xbox was even in the industry, and they will continue to brag about power when they know they have the tech advantages. Fans will be fans. I just wanted to point out your statement on calling out Xbox fans when clearly the community swap and change all the time with the narrative.

Did you forget that most of the Xbox community shuffled over to the PS4 last gen? Those 360 fanboys that bashed the PS3 are now PS4 fanboys bashing the XB1. You have to look at the reality Don.



Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:

You can name them, do it.

And read again what was posted. Go to the face-off threads on neogaf and you'll see people complaining about the gloating and talking about the delayed tools. If Xbox fans weren't complaining how would some of DF staff saying they are receiving a lot of bad message from that crowd or why would MS be responding?

Don, i personally don't care as much as you do when it comes to face off threads and neogaf etc, i know their are Xbox fanboys gloating, but there are also PS fanboys gloating too. You like to act when one side does it and tend to defend or ignore the other side doing it. I game mainly on PC now and i wont be buying a XSX or PS5 anytime soon, so whatever the fanboys want to claim they will claim. Does it affect me? not one bit, but lets not pretend this is all Xbox's doing. Sony were gloating about power before Xbox was even in the industry, and they will continue to brag about power when they know they have the tech advantages. Fans will be fans. I just wanted to point out your statement on calling out Xbox fans when clearly the community swap and change all the time with the narrative.

Did you forget that most of the Xbox community shuffled over to the PS4 last gen? Those 360 fanboys that bashed the PS3 are now PS4 fanboys bashing the XB1. You have to look at the reality Don.

You really need to improve your reading skills Azz. Have I said Sony fans don't gloat? I even said Xbox fans on neogaf were complaining exactly of Sony fans gloating, did that gone over your head?

At least this time you didn't confuse fans gloating about power with the company. But thank you to ask me to look at reality, it would do you wonders.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

You really need to improve your reading skills Azz. Have I said Sony fans don't gloat? I even said Xbox fans on neogaf were complaining exactly of Sony fans gloating, did that gone over your head?

At least this time you didn't confuse fans gloating about power with the company. But thank you to ask me to look at reality, it would do you wonders.

Don, the fact that you take what these companies say to heart is the bigger problem. Xbox marketing is no different to PS marketing. They continue to out do each other. The fact i always see you in a Phil Spencer articles bickering on his PR acting like his some sort of religious cult leader while on the other hand, everything  Sony do is gospel. I am not going to get into the "He said, she said" debate with you because i honestly don't care what Xbox or Sony say to market there consoles. Sometimes companies will retaliate, lets not forget the digs Sony took with the XB1 to promote some of there responses. It takes two Don.