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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft: Xbox Series S and X only next-gen consoles with full RDNA 2 feature set

Hiku said:
sales2099 said:

Only Xbox can do sampler feedback, mesh shaders, and variable rate shading. 

Can you link to a source for that?
Because Xbox listed those as features they have. Not as features other's don't have.

The only thing they said on the subject was "Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today."

That can very well just be referring to Direct X, which I've also explained why that would be the only thing Microsoft could know for a fact that PS5 doesn't have.

If you also want to talk about PR, they specified "showcased today". Did AMD showcase every feature of their chip on that particular day?
If they did, then again, that could just mean DirectX. If they didn't, then PS5 could have more of the features that AMD chose for their solution than Xbox.

Not that that matters anyway, because all three were developed alongside each other, at the same time, and all three chose the solutions that best suited their environment. With perhaps the exception of DirecX since that's Microsoft's tech.

You are confused; variable rate shading, mesh shaders, and sampler feedback are all part of the DX12 Ultimate suite. Does the PS5 have similar (or even better) technology? We don't know because Sony is not telling us. Why are they not telling us? I don't know, maybe they just don't need to.



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chakkra said:
You are confused; variable rate shading, mesh shaders, and sampler feedback are all part of the DX12 Ultimate suite. Does the PS5 have similar (or even better) technology? We don't know because Sony is not telling us. Why are they not telling us? I don't know, maybe they just don't need to.

I'm sure they're being quiet because they've created superior methods than AMD themselves. This is probably why DF didn't see any VRS in PS5 games, the custom solution is just too good.

Also JRPG, while you're quoting GeordieImp or whatever, make sure you also quote the many posts where he claims X|S does not utilize RDNA2 tech and that PS5 is actually RDNA3, which will be revealed in a surprise showcase at the AMD event. (narrator: it wasn't)



SvennoJ said:
sales2099 said:

You and I both know that you are being hopeful given the slight vagueness at the moment but if you been following all the rumors and various news sources coupled with the basic spec comparisons we will find out soon enough. You wanna wait, sure I’ll wait. But I got the feeling it’s delaying the inevitable. 

Pot calling the kettle black lol. Custom is usually better than default, boasting about having the default feature set doesn't mean anything ;)

Sure we'll find out (later when we actually get next gen games) and yes on paper the X has more juice. However the 5 doesn't need to support a gimped little brother throughout the gen... One camp gets to optimize for one spec, the other has to make sure it runs well on both while not disappointing either set of users. Look at Cyberpunk, now delayed again because the base consoles are giving problems. The S is the new base console next gen.

Custom could mean anything. Most industry people connected imply it’s a “RDNA 1.5” but if we gotta wait we gotta wait. It’s amazing how people say power doesn’t matter but I’ve never seen a fan group cling to the power narrative quite like what I’m seeing this year. Not you but in general. 

Well now we going into other territory. That’s FUD imo regarding Series S. CPU and SSD parity mean that only resolution, FPS, and some graphical fidelity take a hit. Much like PC games on Ultra settings vs medium settings. It was designed with scalability in mind.  

Can you confirm the recent delay was due to last gen versions? Just seems like unusual circumstances of crunch coupled with working under pandemic conditions. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Hiku said:
sales2099 said:

Only Xbox can do sampler feedback, mesh shaders, and variable rate shading. 

If these things are indeed part of DirectX12, then that explains why MS would know for a fact that PS5 doesn't have these things. 
But regarding PR, they said "Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today."

Did AMD showcase every feature of their chip on that particular day?
If they did, then again, that could just mean DirectX. If they didn't, then PS5 could have more of the features that AMD chose for their solution than Xbox.

Not that that matters anyway, because all three were developed alongside each other, at the same time, and all three chose the solutions that best suited their environment. With perhaps the exception of DirecX since that's Microsoft's tech.

sales2099 said:

AMD confirmed full RDNA 2 were as PS5 is “custom RDNA 2”. To me that’s PR for “some but not all features”. 

Seems like you haven't read any of my posts?
Xbox is also custom RDNA2. And it doesn't sound like you know what 'full RDNA2' means here, so please read my posts, and refute anything I said if you think anything sounds inaccurate. And explain why.

Remember when Xbox One S won 2 NPD's in a row and they made that commercial stating "the best selling console in the US"? Even though PS4 had sold several million units more. Technically their statement was true. But it was all about what they left out of that statement. And it's essentially the same thing here.

AMD's chip is not a standard that Xbox and PS5 strive to follow. They all developed these technologies together at the same time. But because only AMD named theirs "RDNA2", it can sound that way when Xbox and Sony's chips are described as "RDNA2 based". In reality RDNA2 is also XSX and PS5 based.
Because as Mark Cerny pointed out, AMD may use some of the features that were developed for PS5 (and Series X).

They all chose what was best for their solution. Xbox and PS5 being consoles with set hardware gives them the opportunity to do things with their chip that isn't feasible for a PC GPU that has to account for a wide variety of hardware configurations. That's why Sony's and Xbox's chips have more features.

Sorry I don’t read all posts. And I’m not a technical guy. It’s all up in the air I suppose but putting the various little pieces together it’s a odds-stacked-against-Sony bet that the PS5 RDNA is superior to what Xbox is packing. Seems to me they put most of their cost into the SSD and controller redesign where as MS simply has in-house tech that’s cutting edge. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:

Custom could mean anything. Most industry people connected imply it’s a “RDNA 1.5” but if we gotta wait we gotta wait. It’s amazing how people say power doesn’t matter but I’ve never seen a fan group cling to the power narrative quite like what I’m seeing this year. Not you but in general. 

Well now we going into other territory. That’s FUD imo regarding Series S. CPU and SSD parity mean that only resolution, FPS, and some graphical fidelity take a hit. Much like PC games on Ultra settings vs medium settings. It was designed with scalability in mind.  

Can you confirm the recent delay was due to last gen versions? Just seems like unusual circumstances of crunch coupled with working under pandemic conditions. 


Extra "optimisation" work was still necessary on the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One versions of Cyberpunk 2077, CD Projekt Red told investors last night, and it was this which had caused the game's release to shift back yet again.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-10-29-cyberpunk-2077-delay-necessary-for-last-minute-work-on-current-consoles-dev-says
However, the dude that said that is not all that reliable, what happened to CDPR! Btw designed with scalability in mind, doesn't mean it will just work.



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Hiku said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

I'm sure they're being quiet because they've created superior methods than AMD themselves. This is probably why DF didn't see any VRS in PS5 games, the custom solution is just too good.

Also JRPG, while you're quoting GeordieImp or whatever, make sure you also quote the many posts where he claims X|S does not utilize RDNA2 tech and that PS5 is actually RDNA3, which will be revealed in a surprise showcase at the AMD event. (narrator: it wasn't)

Microsoft released this statement yesterday. But Sony are 'being quiet' because they didn't respond within 24 hours?

How about instead of throwing shade on other people on other forums, you respond to the people that engage with you here first?
I responded to you a few times about some statements you've made. Namely regarding the meaning of RDNA2 and the notion that PS5 was somehow not involved in the development for as long as Xbox, but you just ignore it and keep making the same kind of comments instead.

Seems like you never had any intention of having proper conversation. But you really need to respond.

Let me also point something out about the Github leak. Or rather the theory about the 2019 PS5.
Aside from the fact that 'the leak was right about some things', the entire basis for the theory about PS5 originally being a 2019 system lost all merit in 2020.

The whole premise for that theory was to explain why PS5 had fewer compute units, etc.
Another theory was that it was because Series X would be more expensive than PS5.

Well, now everyone knows why. Sony focused more money towards the SSD and its controller instead. (Both the SSD controller and the actual controller.) Different priorities. But both are $500 systems with reasonable price tags for the hardware inside.

So the whole idea about the 2019 release is baseless nonsense (and for other reasons I've mentioned before), and was jumping to conclusions.
And in the case of this thread, isn't it obvious that PS5 would not have DirectX?

There's no mystery here.

I don’t need to respond, I don’t care to respond to you. Feel free to quote me replying to someone else, I don’t need to reply to you in order to be engaged in “proper conversation”, whatever that means. Nothing you are saying is substantial anyway. You act as if you’re speaking with some authority on the matter or something. I don’t know why. 



chakkra said:
Pemalite said:

 I am talking low-level stuff not marketing fluff laid on top, that is for those who don't delve into the hardware nitty gritty.

The RX 6000 GPU line is going to perform better than the RX 5000 line no matter how you slice it. And that performance comes from all of those small adjustments and features that the RX 5000 was missing. If more performance equals "marketing fluff" to you, well, okay then.

Not once have I talked about performance, I have talked about hardware features.

chakkra said:

No, they are not exactly the same as one offers better performance, and again, you keep repeating that as if better performance doesn't directly impact the end user experience.

They are the same thing.
I have already elaborated on how the approaches differ prior.

It's just like Tessellation, AMD and nVidia approached the issue very differently (Truform vs Polymorph vs Evergreen Graphics Engine), they all offered the same feature in the end and yes they both had different levels of performance, but I am not talking about performance.

Hiku said:
sales2099 said:

Only Xbox can do sampler feedback, mesh shaders, and variable rate shading. 

If these things are indeed part of DirectX12, then that explains why MS would know for a fact that PS5 doesn't have these things. 
But regarding PR, they said "Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today."

Did AMD showcase every feature of their chip on that particular day?
If they did, then again, that could just mean DirectX. If they didn't, then PS5 could have more of the features that AMD chose for their solution than Xbox.

Not that that matters anyway, because all three were developed alongside each other, at the same time, and all three chose the solutions that best suited their environment. With perhaps the exception of DirecX since that's Microsoft's tech.

Most of those features are exposed in Vulkan to various degrees.
Shit nVidia even has nVidia specific extensions for allot of similar technologies in even OpenGL.

LudicrousSpeed said:
chakkra said:
You are confused; variable rate shading, mesh shaders, and sampler feedback are all part of the DX12 Ultimate suite. Does the PS5 have similar (or even better) technology? We don't know because Sony is not telling us. Why are they not telling us? I don't know, maybe they just don't need to.

I'm sure they're being quiet because they've created superior methods than AMD themselves. This is probably why DF didn't see any VRS in PS5 games, the custom solution is just too good.

Also JRPG, while you're quoting GeordieImp or whatever, make sure you also quote the many posts where he claims X|S does not utilize RDNA2 tech and that PS5 is actually RDNA3, which will be revealed in a surprise showcase at the AMD event. (narrator: it wasn't)

Unlikely.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
chakkra said:

The RX 6000 GPU line is going to perform better than the RX 5000 line no matter how you slice it. And that performance comes from all of those small adjustments and features that the RX 5000 was missing. If more performance equals "marketing fluff" to you, well, okay then.

Not once have I talked about performance, I have talked about hardware features.

chakkra said:

No, they are not exactly the same as one offers better performance, and again, you keep repeating that as if better performance doesn't directly impact the end user experience.

They are the same thing.
I have already elaborated on how the approaches differ prior.

It's just like Tessellation, AMD and nVidia approached the issue very differently (Truform vs Polymorph vs Evergreen Graphics Engine), they all offered the same feature in the end and yes they both had different levels of performance, but I am not talking about performance.

But these features are all about performance, each and every one of them was designed with one thing and one thing only in mind; performance. If you were expecting something else, you're going to be disappointed.



The fun part is that some guy in this thread recommended us to got to Gaf for a meltdown.
Ehm, nope. We don’t need to go anywhere to witness...



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

chakkra said:
Pemalite said:

Not once have I talked about performance, I have talked about hardware features.

They are the same thing.
I have already elaborated on how the approaches differ prior.

It's just like Tessellation, AMD and nVidia approached the issue very differently (Truform vs Polymorph vs Evergreen Graphics Engine), they all offered the same feature in the end and yes they both had different levels of performance, but I am not talking about performance.

But these features are all about performance, each and every one of them was designed with one thing and one thing only in mind; performance. If you were expecting something else, you're going to be disappointed.

It's not just about performance, that is a fallacious line of thinking.

Often a feature gets introduced not because of performance reasons, but because it may also reduce development burden on game developers.
Remember what runs on top of graphics hardware... Games.
nVidia and AMD both work closely with developers and various API's to extract as much ease-of-development as possible with various development tools and optimizations.

I.E. Case in point TressFX. - It allows for advanced simulation of hair, grass and fur by leveraging various middle-ware libraries that just happened to be GPU accelerated. - It greatly expedited development time, but enabling it? There was certainly an impact to performance and efficiency, but that was worth the trade-off for the visual gains.

So no. It's not just about performance, it's often just about reducing development time and increasing visuals.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--