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Forums - Politics Discussion - If transracialism is BS, why isn't transgenderism?

vivster said:
Cobretti2 said:

This has been debated for a long time, from what I can tell majority born, then a few by choice for various personal reasons.

Let's look at it from a history point of view before technological advancement. It was natures way of population control. Now you can just make a test tube baby with donors so any gay couple could have a child in theory. 

Ancient Rome/Greece, were they homosexual that were married to women? Or just an acceptable practice for straight males to have male partners too since on usually took on the dominant role the other was more feminine? Was straight, gay even terms back then? Or was it simply, if you want a child you have to mate with a woman, of you want just sex do it with whoever? At what point in history in these cultures suddenly homosexuality become bad? 

Similar with this scenario, lets look at an extreme, say you were adopted as a baby by a black family, and you have red hair, freckles, white skin etc.. Now you were raised in such an environment. Are you going to lean towards feeling like you belong to the black race? or will you feel like the odd one out? Are black people going to look at you funny and call you crazy, or will they accept that you were adopted and see you as part of their race? What about if the situation was reverse and it was a black baby in a white home?

Personally i feel like everything in the last 10 years has gone way to far. We have lost the concept of we are all humans and suddenly every small variance has a label. LBGT was just that, now how many letters are in that group? Facebook at one stage (not sure if it still does, had 50+ genders), some were basically the same with short or long spelling because people were offended by the spelling even so they created multiple options. 

It went all downhill when LGB added the T, which had nothing to do with their original message.

This discussion has brought an interesting thought into my mind. People are talking about weather you are born a certain way or not, but I ask myself how many people were born a certain way but never got to experience who they are because of social oppression. Homo- and bisexuality are probably way more common than people think. There are probably millions of people who don't even know they are because they never dared to explore themselves and their desires.

Which makes it so heartbreaking to see that the transgender community has completely taken over the conversation, hurting both homosexuals and heterosexuals with their stupid gender stereotypes while getting to pretend that they do the opposite.

Ah yes forgot about bisexuals. I know a girl who has explored but in her home country she would never have done it. I think she still fears what her family would think. TBH i don't know if she has landed on a position what she is because of it and you can't really talk about it with her because she finds it awkward and sometimes is in denial. 

The next thing I will say will probably sound shallow, but I think it is a good way to put things into perspective for people that fear the unknown and ho might be reading. I don't know why to this day a straight person would care if someone from their same gender is gay. There is no logical reason for it. Let's be honest dating has a lot of luck element to it. Sure trying hard gets you more dates but to find a person you can click with is real hard and all about being at the right place at the right time, especially if you have to live with them for many year/life if you get married. If your competition narrows because people are born gay, how is that a bad thing? Better odds for you finding the right person for you. In cultures where you mentioned oppression happens, gay people marry the opposite sex are not happy and in turn the straight person struggles also to find anyone suitable.  If those places allowed those people to explore their sexuality, than your mr/mrs right might not have been taken into an unexpected relationship that their partner is lying to them about what they really want and putting on a fake smile like the relationship is strong as ever. Now i won't pretend I haven't been upset to find out some women are gay. But not because i find it disgusting but because when I was single I was like damn would have been fun to get to know her at an intimate level.



 

 

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Sure seems to me like the people calling transracialism BS today are the type of folks who will be dubbed bigots by the next generation. Progressive movements don't stop when you come of age, after all: they "progress."



Cobretti2 said:
vivster said:

It went all downhill when LGB added the T, which had nothing to do with their original message.

This discussion has brought an interesting thought into my mind. People are talking about weather you are born a certain way or not, but I ask myself how many people were born a certain way but never got to experience who they are because of social oppression. Homo- and bisexuality are probably way more common than people think. There are probably millions of people who don't even know they are because they never dared to explore themselves and their desires.

Which makes it so heartbreaking to see that the transgender community has completely taken over the conversation, hurting both homosexuals and heterosexuals with their stupid gender stereotypes while getting to pretend that they do the opposite.

Ah yes forgot about bisexuals. I know a girl who has explored but in her home country she would never have done it. I think she still fears what her family would think. TBH i don't know if she has landed on a position what she is because of it and you can't really talk about it with her because she finds it awkward and sometimes is in denial. 

The next thing I will say will probably sound shallow, but I think it is a good way to put things into perspective for people that fear the unknown and ho might be reading. I don't know why to this day a straight person would care if someone from their same gender is gay. There is no logical reason for it. Let's be honest dating has a lot of luck element to it. Sure trying hard gets you more dates but to find a person you can click with is real hard and all about being at the right place at the right time, especially if you have to live with them for many year/life if you get married. If your competition narrows because people are born gay, how is that a bad thing? Better odds for you finding the right person for you. In cultures where you mentioned oppression happens, gay people marry the opposite sex are not happy and in turn the straight person struggles also to find anyone suitable.  If those places allowed those people to explore their sexuality, than your mr/mrs right might not have been taken into an unexpected relationship that their partner is lying to them about what they really want and putting on a fake smile like the relationship is strong as ever. Now i won't pretend I haven't been upset to find out some women are gay. But not because i find it disgusting but because when I was single I was like damn would have been fun to get to know her at an intimate level.

The reason why it bothers so many people is really simple. As with most social issues the underlying cause are gender stereotypes. The good old masculinity and femininity. Children are raised with the belief that the genital that you are born with mandates your behavior and that everything that doesn't adhere to the stereotypes is weird and shameful. Being intimate with anything but your designated opposite gender does not fall neatly into masculine or feminine tropes. People are being bullied and harassed for being a "sissy" or a "butch". That is toxic genderism and is basically indistinguishable from racism. People are getting shamed for what they are born with, are treated like sub humans if they don't confine themselves into the ready made definitions of what is "proper".

Homosexuals and bisexuals have been fighting for their right of self expression for millennia and then some asshats come along who not only strongly support gender stereotypes but actively try to force them on everyone. Gender stereotypes are in their nature restrictive and become oppressive when they are socially enforced. Guess who is the loudest voice today trying to enforce gender sterotypes, correct, it's the TQ+ crowd who are not strong enough to fight for equality and rather use the existing stereotypes to fit their needs. So instead of crushing labels, they try to force everyone into theirs to make themselves feel "normal", except that their "normal" is completely contrived and against the nature of humans, or all living beings.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Gender dysphoria is real. Race is a social construct (and a sloppy one at that). Not the same thing.



Tag - "No trolling on my watch!"

To resume it in a few words: Bias. It's been very evident for a while now that all these movements that defend such bullshits are not really interested in said bullshit, but rather the power and/or influence that comes with it, simply because when it comes to shove, they choose/defend the cases that are more alligned with their tastes, rather to defend the concept in itself. People are so worried of being pollitically correct(though people are starting to care less about this, and fast), that they end up giving people too much leeway when it comes to these subjects, not wanting to "offend" said people. Hence where the power/influence comes from.

But yeah, all these movements about social justice have largely been really hypocritical.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

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We are a collection of atoms as old as the universe itself



Who are we to decide what is valid or not in term of identifying as some other race/culture/gender/sex/whatever.
The gates were opened, now we are having the flood and there is no stop to it. If we accept someone that is born a woman can identify as a man we should not be judgmental of other people doing the same thing with other cultural/biological aspects.



ClaudeLv250 said:
Gender dysphoria is real. Race is a social construct (and a sloppy one at that). Not the same thing.

Holy shit!  Looks who back.



ClaudeLv250 said:
Gender dysphoria is real. Race is a social construct (and a sloppy one at that). Not the same thing.

This really is all that needs to be said here.

Race is a social construct, one that changes over time and between cultures. Gender dysphoria is a well-documented thing that’s been seen in multiple cultures over multiple time periods, and there’s oodles of scientific evidence demonstrating that gender reassignment surgeries typically help trans people significantly.

I’d encourage anyone with a serious interest in this to just google this stuff and read up on what reputable scientific sources say on the subject.



Ka-pi96 said:
JWeinCom said:

Berbers (who make up most of Algeria) have genetic traits that are a mixture of sub-Saharan Africa and Arab. Whether they're black or not is debatable, which is clearly why Krug chose that country. If she'd said Nigeria, people would be like gtfo. 

This is all kind of besides the point. Krug did not misinterpret anything. If she was legitimately from Algeria and considered herself black but others disagreed, that would be a different question entirely. But that's not what happened. She made statements that she knew were objectively not true. Her family was simply not from Algeria, and she knew that they weren't. She was making statements of fact that she knew to be false.

If a trans person was knowingly saying objectively false things, I'd also be against that. If Caitlyn Jenner said she was born with a vagina, then she is lying, and I'd have an issue with that (in the abstract at least... not like I'd go on a vendetta or anything). When Caitlyn Jenner says she feels like she is a woman, I believe she truly believes that. Even if I do feel differently, I defer to her judgment, because she has access to better information than I do. On a sidenote though, fuck Caitlyn Jenner. Not because she's trans, but because she's a shitty person.

I don't fully see what the issue is there though. Like, if the problem is that she can't be trusted because she lied about stuff, then fair enough. But other than that it seems the system that gave her advantages and protection for her claims is more at fault than anything else. As in if either A. she had nothing to gain by making such claims or B. somebody could have called her out and been like "no, you're not black" without being demonised for it then there wouldn't have been much of an issue in the first place.

@bolded Isn't it kind of just semantics at that point though? As in, you're kind of saying it's not ok for her to say "I am a woman" but it's ok for her to say "I feel I am a woman".

Although I kind of agree. I don't have a problem with people believing whatever they want about themselves. I would say any expectation that other people agree with them is an issue though. It's only really applicable in certain situations although that's true for both race and gender. eg. a clearly white person who believes they are black playing the role of a black person in a movie is as much an issue as someone who's physically male that believes they are female participating in women's sport.

I think that as a general rule, people should be as truthful as possible. It might depend on whether the lie would cause any harm. Using a celebrity may not have been the best example. To use a better one, if I was becoming romantically involved with a person who was mtf trans and they told me they were born a woman, that is deceptive. It is depriving me of information that might influence my decision on how to proceed with the relationship.

I'm not saying it's not ok for her to say "I am a woman". I am fine with her saying that, because that is what she feels is true, and I don't have any clear objective way to determine whether she's right or not. However, if she says "I was born with a vagina" that is something we can, at least in theory, objectively determine.

Nobody has to agree with anyone on how they see themselves. If you think Terry Crews is Chinese, then you're entitled to that opinion, weird as it may be. You can disagree with a trans person on what their gender is. But, there is a difference between disagreeing with someone, and believing they are lying, which is the difference between these cases, and why the comparison is bullshit.