Ka-pi96 said:
JWeinCom said:
Berbers (who make up most of Algeria) have genetic traits that are a mixture of sub-Saharan Africa and Arab. Whether they're black or not is debatable, which is clearly why Krug chose that country. If she'd said Nigeria, people would be like gtfo.
This is all kind of besides the point. Krug did not misinterpret anything. If she was legitimately from Algeria and considered herself black but others disagreed, that would be a different question entirely. But that's not what happened. She made statements that she knew were objectively not true. Her family was simply not from Algeria, and she knew that they weren't. She was making statements of fact that she knew to be false.
If a trans person was knowingly saying objectively false things, I'd also be against that. If Caitlyn Jenner said she was born with a vagina, then she is lying, and I'd have an issue with that (in the abstract at least... not like I'd go on a vendetta or anything). When Caitlyn Jenner says she feels like she is a woman, I believe she truly believes that. Even if I do feel differently, I defer to her judgment, because she has access to better information than I do. On a sidenote though, fuck Caitlyn Jenner. Not because she's trans, but because she's a shitty person.
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I don't fully see what the issue is there though. Like, if the problem is that she can't be trusted because she lied about stuff, then fair enough. But other than that it seems the system that gave her advantages and protection for her claims is more at fault than anything else. As in if either A. she had nothing to gain by making such claims or B. somebody could have called her out and been like "no, you're not black" without being demonised for it then there wouldn't have been much of an issue in the first place.
@bolded Isn't it kind of just semantics at that point though? As in, you're kind of saying it's not ok for her to say "I am a woman" but it's ok for her to say "I feel I am a woman".
Although I kind of agree. I don't have a problem with people believing whatever they want about themselves. I would say any expectation that other people agree with them is an issue though. It's only really applicable in certain situations although that's true for both race and gender. eg. a clearly white person who believes they are black playing the role of a black person in a movie is as much an issue as someone who's physically male that believes they are female participating in women's sport.
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I think that as a general rule, people should be as truthful as possible. It might depend on whether the lie would cause any harm. Using a celebrity may not have been the best example. To use a better one, if I was becoming romantically involved with a person who was mtf trans and they told me they were born a woman, that is deceptive. It is depriving me of information that might influence my decision on how to proceed with the relationship.
I'm not saying it's not ok for her to say "I am a woman". I am fine with her saying that, because that is what she feels is true, and I don't have any clear objective way to determine whether she's right or not. However, if she says "I was born with a vagina" that is something we can, at least in theory, objectively determine.
Nobody has to agree with anyone on how they see themselves. If you think Terry Crews is Chinese, then you're entitled to that opinion, weird as it may be. You can disagree with a trans person on what their gender is. But, there is a difference between disagreeing with someone, and believing they are lying, which is the difference between these cases, and why the comparison is bullshit.
