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Forums - Politics Discussion - If transracialism is BS, why isn't transgenderism?

Immersiveunreality said:
JWeinCom said:

The last conversation with my psychiatrist was making an action plan for if I wanted to hurt myself. Due to some insurance issues I didn't make an appointment for the next few months. Never checked in at all. True story.  

Are you feeling better now?

Yeah, thanks for asking. Probably shouldn't have said anything though since it's off topic. 



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If transgenderism exists(which it doesn't) then transracialism should also exist. They both revolve around a person adopting a bunch of arbitrary and artificial traits and then demand others to treat them differently because of their misguided beliefs. If black people don't want white people to assume a black identity maybe they shouldn't have crafted an identity out of a skin color. Just like the rest of the world made an identity out of a sex chromosome.

People are fucking crazy. Every day I learn anew how futile it is to fight against religious ignorance just for some assholes to create brand new religions out of thin air. People are hurting each other over thoughts and self expression. That's fucking mental.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

The US is kind of fucked up. I was scolded by Americans for singing a rap song off of Strictly 4 my N.I.G.G.A.Z. by Tupac Shakur. They told me that because I wasn’t black I couldn’t sing that.

But look at those hypocrites! Telling me I can’t be black because of the colour of my skin. Now who’s the racist!



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

The US is kind of fucked up. I was scolded by Americans for singing a rap song off of Strictly 4 my N.I.G.G.A.Z. by Tupac Shakur. They told me that because I wasn’t black I couldn’t sing that.

But look at those hypocrites! Telling me I can’t be black because of the colour of my skin. Now who’s the racist!

It's fun to watch the libertarian left slip more and more into the authoritarian left and then find out they cannot be both at the same time. Fighting for free self expression by oppressing self expression just doesn't fit. Sadly they will never realize the irony.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

You know what? It is ultimately irrelevant to me what reproductive organs someone has/doesn't have and thus it's ultimately irrelevant if someone is Trans.
It is also ultimately irrelevant to me what colour skin someone has/doesn't have, it's ultimately a pointless aspect to point out.

It's only an *issue* because people point out that particular aspect of a person and *make* it an issue. - Those who do that need to grow up.

It's good practice to treat other people equally and mind your own business, just be supportive of them and stop bringing them down... At the end of the day we all bleed the same colour of blood and we all deserve dignity and respect. - We are all going to be different, each and every single one of us.

And those who bring down the trans or other communities by accusing their "status" as bullshit is not being dignified or respectful, you are not being constructive, you are just bringing down other people to make yourself feel better.
Start working on issues in your own backyard... Because I can assure you... You probably aren't perfect either.

Either way, just tagging in just to keep an eye on this thread.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:

And those who bring down the trans or other communities by accusing their "status" as bullshit is not being dignified or respectful, you are not being constructive, you are just bringing down other people to make yourself feel better.

Those words are absolutely true and people should live by them. However I do still do it out of sheer self defense. "bringing down other people to make yourself feel better" is exactly what the people are doing I'm defending myself against. Religions have brought nothing but pain to this world and I will try to fight them off as best as I can and I I promise will ignore them as soon as they stop trying to hurt me.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

I don't get any of the cultural appropriation issues. Maybe that's because I am white and European.

In my view, culture is only has value if it is shared and extended. If a Chinese lady plays Mozart, that's fine. If a rapper uses a Shakespeare quote, that's fine too. The moment you limit or restrict artistic ideas, they die, because ideas that don't evolve with the time cease to be relevant.



Xxain said:

This goes back to the gay question: Are you born gay or do you choose to be? If believe born, then by proxy you also believe that its possible for somebody to truly feel like the opposite sex.

You kind of sort of answer - when revealed to have a purely European ancestry, she claimed to "identify as black" because of her lifestyle (e.g. liked hip hop music and other stereotypically "black" stuff).

Now compare.

EDIT: I do believe that it is totally possible to identify as another ethic group, but it goes beyond "because I like Snoop Dogg".

This has been debated for a long time, from what I can tell majority born, then a few by choice for various personal reasons.

Let's look at it from a history point of view before technological advancement. It was natures way of population control. Now you can just make a test tube baby with donors so any gay couple could have a child in theory. 

Ancient Rome/Greece, were they homosexual that were married to women? Or just an acceptable practice for straight males to have male partners too since on usually took on the dominant role the other was more feminine? Was straight, gay even terms back then? Or was it simply, if you want a child you have to mate with a woman, of you want just sex do it with whoever? At what point in history in these cultures suddenly homosexuality become bad? 

Similar with this scenario, lets look at an extreme, say you were adopted as a baby by a black family, and you have red hair, freckles, white skin etc.. Now you were raised in such an environment. Are you going to lean towards feeling like you belong to the black race? or will you feel like the odd one out? Are black people going to look at you funny and call you crazy, or will they accept that you were adopted and see you as part of their race? What about if the situation was reverse and it was a black baby in a white home?

Personally i feel like everything in the last 10 years has gone way to far. We have lost the concept of we are all humans and suddenly every small variance has a label. LBGT was just that, now how many letters are in that group? Facebook at one stage (not sure if it still does, had 50+ genders), some were basically the same with short or long spelling because people were offended by the spelling even so they created multiple options. 



 

 

Cobretti2 said:
Xxain said:

This goes back to the gay question: Are you born gay or do you choose to be? If believe born, then by proxy you also believe that its possible for somebody to truly feel like the opposite sex.

You kind of sort of answer - when revealed to have a purely European ancestry, she claimed to "identify as black" because of her lifestyle (e.g. liked hip hop music and other stereotypically "black" stuff).

Now compare.

EDIT: I do believe that it is totally possible to identify as another ethic group, but it goes beyond "because I like Snoop Dogg".

This has been debated for a long time, from what I can tell majority born, then a few by choice for various personal reasons.

Let's look at it from a history point of view before technological advancement. It was natures way of population control. Now you can just make a test tube baby with donors so any gay couple could have a child in theory. 

Ancient Rome/Greece, were they homosexual that were married to women? Or just an acceptable practice for straight males to have male partners too since on usually took on the dominant role the other was more feminine? Was straight, gay even terms back then? Or was it simply, if you want a child you have to mate with a woman, of you want just sex do it with whoever? At what point in history in these cultures suddenly homosexuality become bad? 

Similar with this scenario, lets look at an extreme, say you were adopted as a baby by a black family, and you have red hair, freckles, white skin etc.. Now you were raised in such an environment. Are you going to lean towards feeling like you belong to the black race? or will you feel like the odd one out? Are black people going to look at you funny and call you crazy, or will they accept that you were adopted and see you as part of their race? What about if the situation was reverse and it was a black baby in a white home?

Personally i feel like everything in the last 10 years has gone way to far. We have lost the concept of we are all humans and suddenly every small variance has a label. LBGT was just that, now how many letters are in that group? Facebook at one stage (not sure if it still does, had 50+ genders), some were basically the same with short or long spelling because people were offended by the spelling even so they created multiple options. 

It went all downhill when LGB added the T, which had nothing to do with their original message.

This discussion has brought an interesting thought into my mind. People are talking about weather you are born a certain way or not, but I ask myself how many people were born a certain way but never got to experience who they are because of social oppression. Homo- and bisexuality are probably way more common than people think. There are probably millions of people who don't even know they are because they never dared to explore themselves and their desires.

Which makes it so heartbreaking to see that the transgender community has completely taken over the conversation, hurting both homosexuals and heterosexuals with their stupid gender stereotypes while getting to pretend that they do the opposite.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

JWeinCom said:
Ka-pi96 said:

That's part of the problem with ethnicity. A lot of it is down to interpretation. I'd say more so than gender which you compared it to earlier. Ethnicity is often based around nationality though, is it not? In the UK you usually have a choice between things like "white British" "black British", "white other" etc. And I expect more often than not if you ask somebody's ethnicity they would say things like "black British" "Swedish" or "Chinese", rather than "Celtic" or "Han".

It seems like the association of black with Africa is much more pronounced in the US than the UK. Like I said we use "black British" rather than "African British", we consider them to be one of us, just with a different skin colour. Plus if I knew a black person wasn't British then unless they had a detectable accent my first instinct would be to assume they're from the Caribbean rather than Africa. Technically their ancestors would still have come from Africa but people from the Caribbean are still very different from people from Africa, they've diverged quite a bit. Just like American, Australians and Brits are all different.

Plus I'd only automatically associate sub-Saharan Africa with black people. There are quite a lot of people of north African descent in Europe (especially France) and I definitely wouldn't consider them black. They're cultural different from people of European descent, but I'd say they're a lot closer to white Europeans physical appearance wise than they are to black Africans. eg. An Algerian person probably looks more similar to an Italian person than they do a Nigerian person.

Berbers (who make up most of Algeria) have genetic traits that are a mixture of sub-Saharan Africa and Arab. Whether they're black or not is debatable, which is clearly why Krug chose that country. If she'd said Nigeria, people would be like gtfo. 

This is all kind of besides the point. Krug did not misinterpret anything. If she was legitimately from Algeria and considered herself black but others disagreed, that would be a different question entirely. But that's not what happened. She made statements that she knew were objectively not true. Her family was simply not from Algeria, and she knew that they weren't. She was making statements of fact that she knew to be false.

If a trans person was knowingly saying objectively false things, I'd also be against that. If Caitlyn Jenner said she was born with a vagina, then she is lying, and I'd have an issue with that (in the abstract at least... not like I'd go on a vendetta or anything). When Caitlyn Jenner says she feels like she is a woman, I believe she truly believes that. Even if I do feel differently, I defer to her judgment, because she has access to better information than I do. On a sidenote though, fuck Caitlyn Jenner. Not because she's trans, but because she's a shitty person.

I don't fully see what the issue is there though. Like, if the problem is that she can't be trusted because she lied about stuff, then fair enough. But other than that it seems the system that gave her advantages and protection for her claims is more at fault than anything else. As in if either A. she had nothing to gain by making such claims or B. somebody could have called her out and been like "no, you're not black" without being demonised for it then there wouldn't have been much of an issue in the first place.

@bolded Isn't it kind of just semantics at that point though? As in, you're kind of saying it's not ok for her to say "I am a woman" but it's ok for her to say "I feel I am a woman".

Although I kind of agree. I don't have a problem with people believing whatever they want about themselves. I would say any expectation that other people agree with them is an issue though. It's only really applicable in certain situations although that's true for both race and gender. eg. a clearly white person who believes they are black playing the role of a black person in a movie is as much an issue as someone who's physically male that believes they are female participating in women's sport.