Everyone always said they wont take the performance crown and probably not even challenge it. It does not need to be the best to compete. 

Correct it doesn't.
But it does need to be better.

It's all well and good to have the "value proposition". - Polaris showcase a substantial increase in market share for AMD in the GPU space because of that... But they have stagnated since.. And that can likely be attributed to a lack of a "Halo" product.
It's no secret that the bulk of profitable GPU sales are in the mainstream/mid-range segment, but you do need that Halo product to bring some brand recognition and lime-light to your lineup.

Ideally we would like nVidia and AMD to be 50/50 marketshare, not 25/75 split that we get currently, then the consumer gets the most benefits.



Don't get me wrong, I'm not an nVidia apologetic, I don't give a shit about the brand, I buy whatever provides the best price/performance at the segment I am aiming for, I just want them to do better than maintaining the status quo.
The massive amount of disruption AMD has caused in the CPU space and the benefits it has brought the consumer has been massive for example, I want that for the GPU space.

I never said having a halo product dosent help, just that it's not the primary thing they should focus. 

Like I said to someone else here. I think most people on this market are like you. This is not the kind or market where you can be careles and just buy whatever and you guys keep up with tech. I don't think theres much blind loyalty. If amd offers something again that offers great value guys like you and others interested in whatever tier offers it and really consider it and do your do research. Regardles of history. 

I never said that you said that having a halo product doesn't help.

I would like to think that is the case, it's undeniable that nVidia simply has the stronger brand with lots of sponsorship and advertising happening in the PC space and is simply innovating much harder, but also pushes harder with propriety technologies.

When AMD has released a compelling product they tend to have been rewarded with marketshare increases which the graph I provided prior demonstrates.
It's been about 15~ years since AMD has been nVidia's equal in terms of marketshare with some high-points being the Radeon 4870, 5870, Radeon x1950, Radeon X850, Radeon 9700 Pro.

And recently they clawed back some marketshare after their lowest points with Fiji. - Doesn't help that AMD was just rebadging product lines every year at that point either with a couple new cards sitting on top so they deserved the decline.

We also need to remember that AMD was fumbling during the stars and bulldozer era where they rolled their GPU development teams into the CPU departments... And only a few years ago decided to make them separate entities again, we are only now just starting to see the benefits of that disconnect.

If someone gets a 2080ti for a similar price as a 3070 won't it be used? I think that would make a brand new 3070 the better thing to get.

I for one would never buy anything used. But it's not for me. The second hand marked is pretty big specially after the new cards come out. Its why they are not releasing the weaker 3060 or 3050,  cuz the old 2080 and 2070 would be selling at that lower price and probable performance. plus like I mentioned. If your rig is not ready with pcie4 or like 32gb of ram, then a 2080ti would probably perform better than a 3070.

Interesting, Buildzoid thinks it will carry HBM2 and be slightly faster than the RTX 3080. Hope he is right, 6900 bandwidth will suck otherwise.

If someone finds a 2080ti going for 350-400 I could see that being a good option. However the people who are still buying them at 800-1200 need to do more research before buying things lol.

Looks really good. I'm looking forward to get a new laptop with RTX 3070 sometime next year.

Have a feeling they will be gimped somewhat, the power consumption is way higher than last gen.