they dont even need to, thats not where the competition is. 

They where only able to compete with the 70 before, now they will step it up be be able to compete with the 80. Thats more than enough for amd to shake things up in the gpu space like they did in the cpu space with ryzen. 

Also a 3070 TI

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/74916/lenovo-just-confirmed-nvidias-geforce-rtx-3070-ti-rocks-16gb-of-vram/index.html

They didn't shake things up in the CPU space, they opened a volcano and melted Intel.
It's Intels fault for using virtually the same CPU's for over 5 years, having their process get cheaper whilst still charging a lot, not innovating and watching their margins grow whilst selling old tech.

Nvidia on the otherhand is a rare case of a company actually competing with themselves and pushing their technology as far as they can with constant improvements and features outside of how much fps you get. They have such a lead on AMD and they are actively working to widening their lead. The complete opposite of Intel.

It's gonna take AMD more than Big Navi to do what they did to Intel.

True, but the first ryzen dint beat the intel top end. ryzen plus stil dint beat intel top end. ryzen 2 beat it, while maybe not in gaming, multythread performance is unmatched.and now ryzen 3 is said to bury intel.

I think rdna is going in the same direction. rdna1 competitive in the low end, rdna2 competing in the mid range, then next year rdna 3 competing in the high end. this wont be the same case as intel, cuz intel screwed up massively while amd improved. and still refused to drop prices until now that they are obsolete. Nvedia dint screw up, they still offer great improvements and it seems they are anticipating competition so they priced cordingly, so amd will not be beating them, they will at best be competitive. 

True, having a halo product is really good for pr. But i really think pr is not so prevalent on this market as this market is well educated and does research before a purchase. So if a halo product is out of their reach, they will research what is in their reach.

Thats true, amd is definetly behind in the features department. we still have no clue how their ray tracing is coming along. we dont even know if they are doing a dlss approach. if all these features do suck or dont even have them, then the only thing they could do is lower prices. like the 5700xt. even if it match the 2070s it still dint have the features so they had to cost way less. and even then people preferred the 2070s because those features are worth it. 

Do you think nvedia is taking amd more cautious because they saw bloody and charred remains of intel? 

A halo product is not just about PR, it's about trust. If I see a company making a great product and then also offering the same product in lower tiers of performance I will trust those lesser products because I have seen how good they can be and that the manufacturer definitely knows what he is doing. When the best thing I can see is some midrange then I will have to wonder what's wrong with it if that's barely the best thing the manufacturer can offer me. I will have less trust because they apparently already struggle to give me lower tier performance.

I can certainly see Big Navi as their Zen 1 for GPUs. It will get people interested but it won't make them suddenly popular other than within their already established fandom. I cannot imagine the pricing for Big Navi to be too far away from a 3080 so no one who isn't already an AMD fan will care to buy it. AMD will only succeed in GPUs when they manage to convince Nvidia buyers and that's gonna be a really tough task and most likely won't happen with Navi.

AMD has their own version of DLSS in the works, as does Microsoft. Both of their versions brute force the machine learning workloads through 16, 8, and 4 bit integer operations, which use far less GPU resources than the 32 bit workloads a GPU typically uses. So in other words, instead of relying on dedicated tensor cores to run the machine learning operations, the standard GPU cores will run them while using a few GPU resources as possible.

Main hurdle right now is software and engine support, in particular if both versions of the upscalers require different work to be done. DLSS for example requires motion vectors and material properties to predict optimal uipscaling.

Im going to stick with the 3070, but the 3080 does look sexy for that extra 200 but im going to stand my ground as i believe the 3070 will give me a massive jump over my 1060 as it is. And to be honest ive not really had much problems with current games playing on my 1060@1080P-1440P with a mix between max and medium settings. So i think the 3070 with dlss will do me for a good 3 years anyways and should be a massive jump over my 1060.

I know but now while reading the rest of this thread i've just noticed another wedge in my upgrade plan.. the 3070 Ti. That extra memory alone for the extra 100 (If that is the price) sure seems enticing .