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Forums - Politics Discussion - Attitudes 100 years since women's suffrage

Mnementh said:

Nice find. It is a shame, that Jacinda Ardern didn't make the list. I am a german and value her over Merkel. Apparently Margaret Thatcher is forgotten now. And as someone with scientific interest I take offense at the omission of Marie Curie.

No, she isn't. She just isn't admired. "Ding dong the witch is dead" Soared up the charts when she died.



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Ka-pi96 said:
Mnementh said:

Nice find. It is a shame, that Jacinda Ardern didn't make the list. I am a german and value her over Merkel. Apparently Margaret Thatcher is forgotten now. And as someone with scientific interest I take offense at the omission of Marie Curie.

No, she isn't. She just isn't admired. "Ding dong the witch is dead" Soared up the charts when she died.

There are Putin, Trump and Erdogan in the list for men. Surely people can appreciate Thatcher as well.



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Mnementh said:
Ka-pi96 said:

No, she isn't. She just isn't admired. "Ding dong the witch is dead" Soared up the charts when she died.

There are Putin, Trump and Erdogan in the list for men. Surely people can appreciate Thatcher as well.

They're also all alive though. I don't believe there's a single dead person on the list, is there?



Ka-pi96 said:
Mnementh said:

There are Putin, Trump and Erdogan in the list for men. Surely people can appreciate Thatcher as well.

They're also all alive though. I don't believe there's a single dead person on the list, is there?

Ah, yes, that might be it.



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Mnementh said:

Nice find. It is a shame, that Jacinda Ardern didn't make the list. I am a german and value her over Merkel. Apparently Margaret Thatcher is forgotten now. And as someone with scientific interest I take offense at the omission of Marie Curie.

Thanks!

Concerning Margaret Thatcher and Marie Curie, those two are obviously both dead, as Ka-pi96 mentioned, so I think that's one reason they didn't make the list of most admired women. But yeah, there's definitely more than just one popular and successful female head of state out there, you're right. In addition to Jacinda Ardern of New Zealand, Mette Frederiksen of Denmark, Tsai Ing Wen of Taiwan, Sheikh Hasina of Bangladesh, the new Prime Minister of Finland, Sanna Marin, and of course Angela Merkel of Germany, are all present-day examples of female heads of state with job approval ratings of at least 62%.

And contrary to sethnintendo's logic about women being dumber than men when it comes to matters of public policy, it may be worth noting that a recent study published by the Center for Economic Policy Research and the World Economic Forum has found that countries headed by women, in their words, have had "systematically and significantly better" public health responses to the covid-19 outbreak than countries headed by men, locking down earlier and losing only half as many people on average to the pandemic even after adjusting for differences in countries' various population sizes. I point this out to show, in yet another way, that electing women to public office is more than just a matter of preferred window dressing. Women tend to bring a different sort of mentality to public office that has real, demonstrable merit.

And yeah, I noticed that no scientists at all made the lists either of most admired women or men. I find that striking too for sure too.



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Jaicee said:

And yeah, I noticed that no scientists at all made the lists either of most admired women or men. I find that striking too for sure too.

Can you actually name a single living scientist (male or female) though? I can't. Every single scientist that I know the name of is dead now.



Ka-pi96 said:
Jaicee said:

And yeah, I noticed that no scientists at all made the lists either of most admired women or men. I find that striking too for sure too.

Can you actually name a single living scientist (male or female) though? I can't. Every single scientist that I know the name of is dead now.

Yeah it's easy to name scientists who are mostly known for science communication (Neil deGrasse Tyson as an example) but science is so compartmentalized and specific these days that even those in the field are likely to only know the people in their own particular subfield of science. People like Frances Arnold and David Baker come to mind as scientists who are really killin it in my field, but they aren't going to be known by the general public other than as maybe a TED talk speaker. 



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Torillian said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Can you actually name a single living scientist (male or female) though? I can't. Every single scientist that I know the name of is dead now.

Yeah it's easy to name scientists who are mostly known for science communication (Neil deGrasse Tyson as an example) but science is so compartmentalized and specific these days that even those in the field are likely to only know the people in their own particular subfield of science. People like Frances Arnold and David Baker come to mind as scientists who are really killin it in my field, but they aren't going to be known by the general public other than as maybe a TED talk speaker. 

Hey, I was wrong. I have heard of 1 living scientist actually. There's also that astronaut guy who was famous for the youtube video of him singing in space. Can't actually remember his name though.



Ka-pi96 said:
Torillian said:

Yeah it's easy to name scientists who are mostly known for science communication (Neil deGrasse Tyson as an example) but science is so compartmentalized and specific these days that even those in the field are likely to only know the people in their own particular subfield of science. People like Frances Arnold and David Baker come to mind as scientists who are really killin it in my field, but they aren't going to be known by the general public other than as maybe a TED talk speaker. 

Hey, I was wrong. I have heard of 1 living scientist actually. There's also that astronaut guy who was famous for the youtube video of him singing in space. Can't actually remember his name though.

Chris Hafield, it is getting off-topic, but it is a great song, so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaOC9danxNo



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I just wanted to make a point real quick. To those who say that the representation of women doesn't matter, check out Kamala Harris's victory speech from this last Saturday after she officially became the first woman to be elected Vice President of the United States. Pay attention in particular to the audience reactions when she talks about the historic nature thereof beginning about 7 minutes and 50 seconds in. When she says that "every little girl watching tonight sees that this is a country of possibilities", the camera turns to a mom who is there with her two young daughters. She turns to them and they exchange smiles. And right there you have it demonstrated in visual form that it means something to somebody.


It concentrates a reality that even this frankly low bar of representation really does mean something to millions of women in this country. I've observed that it seems to mean more to older women in particular who have lived their lives without any comparable validation of the equality of their sex. The young girls of today will simply take it for granted that this is how things are and how they are supposed to be, not ever knowing a different world.

It feels like something has been achieved here to me anyway. Nothing truly earth-shattering like what it might have meant to have elected say a female actual president, but...well let's put it this way, shortly before the election took place, CNN was running a special on the historical women in the White House. It was called First Ladies because that -- the post of professional wife -- is the highest-level "position" any woman has ever held in the government of this nation so far, after more than 240 years of its existence and a full century since women first won the right to vote nationwide. It was like the 20th such series I'd heard of or seen in my lifetime so far. That's what celebrations of women in the White House look like. There's not even a post called like "First Gentleman" or "First Husband" or whatever. Technically, the husband of a woman elected president would be called the First Lady because the founders just assumed all presidents would be male. So far they have been. But anyway, maybe now we can begin to retire "First Ladies" specials. Or at least they can begin to feel less currently pertinent.