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Forums - Sony Discussion - (SPOILER ALERT) Free discussion of TLOU2 with story included

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How do you rate TLOU2 story

1 8 14.55%
 
2 1 1.82%
 
3 5 9.09%
 
4 3 5.45%
 
5 5 9.09%
 
6 7 12.73%
 
7 4 7.27%
 
8 4 7.27%
 
9 7 12.73%
 
10 11 20.00%
 
Total:55
theprof00 said:
DonFerrari said:

I don`t think Joel is a villain or a hero, all he done after losing sarah and meeting Ellie was to keep living, killed to live. And the kills he done after Ellie was to keep her safe. Very simple and understandable.

Killing to keep alive and for revenge is different stuff, but yes I totally understand Abby killing him even without seeing flashback. Even Ellie say it would be impossible to know which group Abby was because Joel had so many enemies.

Without getting into details, I'd just recommend checking out this tvtropes link on villain protagonists. I think you'll find it hard to disagree. He embodies all the characteristics of a villain, and at best is typified as a sociopathic hero who crosses the line into full villain upon killing Marlene.

I would say that at the hospital he wasn't at his best mental state and he also knew that if anyone was left alive that knew about Ellie she was going to be hunt. And sure after all the kill he done in the past he wouldn't have issue killing a few more.

Anyway even criminals have loved ones and can act kind. And he being able to sympatize and have real care and love eliminates him being a sociopath.



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It's dropped to a 94 on metacritic



Bonzinga said:
Mordred11 said:

     So to you, Abby killing Joel was a flaw because Abby should've had second thoughts about doing it after Joel saved her, but Ellie not killing Abby at the end is also a major flaw, after Abby let Ellie live (tommy and dina too) TWICE.

     Sounds to me like you're a little biased as to "how people work" when it comes to joel and abby.

     Abby spent 4 years of her life tracking down Joel, a man who killed her father, a father that seemingly never did anything to hurt anyone who didn't deserve it ( unlike the long list of innocent people Joel kills ). During this time, she never allows herself to be happy, not even giving a chance to her relationship with Owen, someone she KNOWS she loves. All she can think about is Joel and how he killed her father, who was just trying to do good. She finally finds him and goes to Jackson WITH her friends. For them to do that in their situation, they risked their lives for her. Do you honestly believe that, just because Joel was "nice" to her for a moment, she should just change her mind and tell her friends they risked their lives coming there for nothing? That's an ironic expectation for someone who complains about "characters wasting their time".

     After Joel's death, Abby and Ellie are even. Even Ellie knows that, but pain is blinding her judgement. She ends up killing almost all of Abby's friends, but Abby still lets her and Dina go, because even Abby was having a hard time dealing with what she did to Joel. After all, she tried saving Yara and Lev as a way to redeem herself for that.

     After all the innocent people Ellie kills (including a pregnant woman), she is still blinded by pain and continues to seek revenge until she finds Abby in a state that was arguably worse than death. That, combined with the fact Abby let her live twice ( plus a pregnant Dina ), and combined with ALL of the innocent people Ellie kills throughout the game, almost convinces Ellie to just let Abby be on her way with Lev. But then she looks at her own blood and is once again reminded by the pain of losing Joel. Once again she is blinded by that pain and quickly decides to kill Abby there and then. Abby doesn't even want to fight and she is physically weakened to an extreme extent, so it's almost like an execution, rather than a fight.

     A moment away from drowning her, Ellie realizes she will not feel better by killing her. She realizes she has to do what Abby did, and that is to redeem herself for her acts of revenge. Only then she could still have a hope of ever feeling happy and content with herself as a person again. So she lets Abby and Lev go for that very purpose. You cannot honestly have played the entire game and tell me that it would've been "good" for Ellie and her mental state to kill Abby at the end.

     I am baffled by the people who state that " the characters just wasted their time". Ellie finally learned how to cope with Joel's death and be her better self, instead of her worst. Abby found her light in the darkness that surrounded her for 4 years, in Lev. THAT is a how humans CAN work, there is no standard for that because every person and every situation differs from one another. It's almost childish to expect someone to deal with pain and loss the same way you would.

I am definilty not saying Joel shouldnt die. Abby has every reason to put him away, thats by far and large not the issue here.

The issue was how it was implemented. Joel is a survivor, he shows this in the first game, yet now he just all of a sudden lets his gaurd down.. characters like these need better send offs, there was no fight, no courage, just a stupid move of Joel trusting strangers.

There needs to be character build up to Abby, there was none, and that scene set the mood for the entire game. Majority still didnt like playing Abby or thinks her motives were earnt. 

Personslly, I dont agree with Ellie letting her go, maybe if Abby only killed her friends but she personally watched what she did to her father figure and why this story needed to end her. The game felt hollow at the end, like it needed some resolve. That is an opinion of ours.

How someone would even ignore this at this point is beyond me. They either forgot how the first game was or did a speedrun on the first game just to play this. Tommy was also being a really stupid fuck here. It's like both of them suffered a senior moment right there.

Also, Jim Sterling's review also described another thing I hate about this game. It's the total disconnect of the gameplay to its narrative. It wants you to feel bad about killing people but it gives you no choice at all. Despite being an unfinished game MGS5 did it better.

Last edited by iron_megalith - on 24 June 2020

Naughty Dog should work on an alternate ending where Ellie kills Abby and Ellie approaches Abby's kid (the person on the boat Abby was trying to flee with), explains to the kid why she killed Abby and then tells the kid that if they want revenge, they should come seek her.

Ellie is unable to kill the kid but she will defend herself if attacked. The cycle of vengeance will end with one of the two.

Dunno, just tossing ideas out there.



KLAMarine said:
Naughty Dog should work on an alternate ending where Ellie kills Abby and Ellie approaches Abby's kid (the person on the boat Abby was trying to flee with), explains to the kid why she killed Abby and then tells the kid that if they want revenge, they should come seek her.

Ellie is unable to kill the kid but she will defend herself if attacked. The cycle of vengeance will end with one of the two.

Dunno, just tossing ideas out there.

Well someone has been watching Kill Bill



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KLXVER said:
KLAMarine said:
Naughty Dog should work on an alternate ending where Ellie kills Abby and Ellie approaches Abby's kid (the person on the boat Abby was trying to flee with), explains to the kid why she killed Abby and then tells the kid that if they want revenge, they should come seek her.

Ellie is unable to kill the kid but she will defend herself if attacked. The cycle of vengeance will end with one of the two.

Dunno, just tossing ideas out there.

Well someone has been watching Kill Bill

I've never watched Kill Bill though. Good movie?



KLAMarine said:
KLXVER said:

Well someone has been watching Kill Bill

I've never watched Kill Bill though. Good movie?

Really? Well thats exactly what happens at one point in it. Its a good movie, yes.



Just leaving this here.



KLXVER said:
KLAMarine said:

I've never watched Kill Bill though. Good movie?

Really? Well thats exactly what happens at one point in it. Its a good movie, yes.

Guess that means my idea is out. Wouldn't want to be accused of copying Kill Bill.



KLAMarine said:
KLXVER said:

Really? Well thats exactly what happens at one point in it. Its a good movie, yes.

Guess that means my idea is out. Wouldn't want to be accused of copying Kill Bill.

or maybe you should pursue a career in film. We could definitely need another Quentin Tarantino.