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Forums - Politics Discussion - What happened in the US? My honest question as a foreigner

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JWeinCom said:
Dulfite said:

I would definitely be more outraged by Scenario B, but what does that have to do with this situation? The cop was fired and has now been charged with murder. He will have his day in court and go away for a very long time (or life). His wife is divorcing him on top of it. There isn't an example of "the teacher does nothing" taking place here.

Or are you talking about society as a whole? If so, how do you make sure every single individual in a high stress job (police) isn't about to snap? Seems impossible to me. 

There are far, far, far more people being murdered by non police officers and it's like society has grown desensitized to that and has instead become obsessed with the far, far, far less murders being committed by police officers.

I wish we were all horrified by all murders to the same degree that some are to a specific ethnic group getting killed by a specific profession (when it happens).

Experience has shown that police officers are frequently are not treated in the same way when they commit crimes.  In this case in particular, the officer had been the subject of multiple allegations of police brutality, and was still on the force, and seemingly never subject to discipline.  This time, it just happens to have been caught on videotape. The teacher did nothing over and over again until the teacher was caught not doing anything.  And people, right or wrong, did not believe anything was going to be done this time either.  If nobody was outraged, who knows if he would have been arrested.  We still don't know if he will actual be convicted. This is what people are protesting.  Not that murder is bad, but the policies that put potential murderers in positions of power, don't remove them when they show signs that they are a danger to people, and then don't forcefully prosecute them if and when they are arrested.

I understand now, thank you for clarifying. Yes, if he was caught doing brutal things in the past, that should have caused him to be fired or arrested then as well. 



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SanAndreasX said:
JWeinCom said:

I don't think anyone disputed that. 

Suppose you are a parent of a high school student.  Your child comes home one day and reports that one of his classmates punched him.  How outraged are you on a scale from 1-10?

Now suppose you are the parent of a high school student.  Your child comes home one day and reports that one of his teachers punched him.  How outraged are you on a scale from 1-10?

Dulfite said:

Most schooling takes place before high school, so I don't know why we are focusing on that here? Elementary and middle schoolers punch each other a lot as well. If the example specified high school I would have said something different, but it didn't.

And by the way, it varies from states to states what the years are, but in my state (I believe) an 18 year old can sleep with a 17 year old (if consensual) but not 16 or younger (that's illegal). But yeah if both are minors it isn't illegal. 

Yep, high school was specifically said. Read the bolded.

Ultimately, the ages aren't the point. The authority is the point. Miscreants do exist in society, but it's a far bigger problem for society when the people who are entrusted with authority are the miscreants. One bad apple in a position of authority can do far more damage than an ordinary citizen if left unchecked, and often there is no recourse against those who abuse their authority because the system protects them. Cops (and other government officials) have "qualified immunity," which means that unless a citizen can prove their constitutional rights were violated, they're untouchable, and the courts set an extremely high bar for a plaintiff to prove violation of their rights. The current standard for qualified immunity is Harlow v. Fitzgerald (457 U.S. 800 (1982)).

Nobody should ever be above the law, whether it's a police officer, a city alderman, a Congressman, or the President of the United States himself.

I totally missed that, my bad.

Unto your main point. If cops don't have a higher qualifier to go to court when accused, don't you think the amount of accusations will skyrocket (some of which will be true and some of which will be completely made up to make a suspect look like a victim)? 

Obviously the ones telling the truth should be able to point out the wrongs that a bad cop did. That's great!

But what about the good cops who get accused (now in increased quantity and rate)? Do you suspend them until the court date happens? If so, I believe we will have police shortages nation wide because of two reasons:

1) Many more cops will be suspended until court proves them right or wrong.

2) A lot of people will no longer want to sign up to be a cop or remain one knowing how stressful their career could be bygby accused of things all the time by people potentially just wanting to deflect attention from their own crimes.

I was (until last year) a special education teacher. I left because of the insane expectations, pressures, and stress from that job due to all the legalities. There are millions of teacher shortages all over, many of which are sped. I didn't know one sped teacher in my building who didn't feel overwhelmed by it all. When you overburden a profession will legal threats, people walk away to less stressful professions. And we absolutely need teachers and need police officers.

I'm sympathetic to people that get brutalized by police officers doing their job terribly, but I'm also sympathetic to the many more police officers doing their jobs correctly. I don't know what the solution is.



In a surprising twist, I saw several posts from what appear to be black people actually attacking Martin Luther King Jr and the Civil Rights Movement.

People don't realize that until very recently, black people couldn't even eat in certain restaurants, even if they worked there. We couldn't even walk through the front door. We couldn't go to the same schools. Couldn't look white people in the eye. We could be lunched without repercussions (one actually happened at the courthouse 30 minutes from where I live). We couldn't vote.

Peaceful demonstrations changed that. Help from other races changed that.

The aforementioned world of inequality wasn't ancient history. My grandparents experienced it. My parents experienced the tail end of it. I experienced the fallout of it. But you have young people today that think 50-70 years ago was a long time because their concept of time is distorted. It feels like ancient history.

We're making progress. Things are getting better. Things have gotten better. As a kid, I couldn't imagine living the life I live now. It was unthinkable. If we can just individually be good people, we can collectively be a great people. The old way of thinking can die out.

And (maybe I'm being a hypocrite here) it's easy to point out problems with anything but when you do point out that problem, maybe have an idea for a solution, too... I can get into a rant about who did what to whom, how everything is stacked in favor of whomever, etc. None of that helps the situation. Excuses just make people comfortable with their failings. A man told me that "Excuses only satisfy he who makes them" (he stole the quote, btw). I believe it. I'm tired of excuses.

Be better people.



Got a little sidetracked in my last post. Meant to illustrate the differences between a peaceful demonstration vs a radical/violent demonstration and their effectiveness. Kinda lost the thread on that one. I don't want to write an essay, though. Trying to keep my posts short.



d21lewis said:
In a surprising twist, I saw several posts from what appear to be black people actually attacking Martin Luther King Jr and the Civil Rights Movement.

People don't realize that until very recently, black people couldn't even eat in certain restaurants, even if they worked there. We couldn't even walk through the front door. We couldn't go to the same schools. Couldn't look white people in the eye. We could be lunched without repercussions (one actually happened at the courthouse 30 minutes from where I live). We couldn't vote.

Peaceful demonstrations changed that. Help from other races changed that.

The aforementioned world of inequality wasn't ancient history. My grandparents experienced it. My parents experienced the tail end of it. I experienced the fallout of it. But you have young people today that think 50-70 years ago was a long time because their concept of time is distorted. It feels like ancient history.

We're making progress. Things are getting better. Things have gotten better. As a kid, I couldn't imagine living the life I live now. It was unthinkable. If we can just individually be good people, we can collectively be a great people. The old way of thinking can die out.

And (maybe I'm being a hypocrite here) it's easy to point out problems with anything but when you do point out that problem, maybe have an idea for a solution, too... I can get into a rant about who did what to whom, how everything is stacked in favor of whomever, etc. None of that helps the situation. Excuses just make people comfortable with their failings. A man told me that "Excuses only satisfy he who makes them" (he stole the quote, btw). I believe it. I'm tired of excuses.

Be better people.

You can't take protesters like King out of the context of the actual historical events. I am guessing the US government and media pushes a horse shit version of the actual history of the civil rights movement, but there was a lot more to it. King was the guy the government aligned with because, after ignoring peaceful protests for years, the alternative happened.

This story has played out time and time again through history. A society that has grown tolerance for oppression needs a taste of armageddon to recognize that if society ignores the peaceful protests year after year, there will be harsh consequences.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Give it a week or two and everything will be quiet again. And don't worry about the people, most are fine with the state of affairs or else they would actually vote for politicians putting a stop to misery.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

"Certain conditions continue to exist in our society, which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention" -MLK. People. Need to also quote this when quoting MlK to critique the rioting and not the stem of the problem



d21lewis said:

Got a little sidetracked in my last post. Meant to illustrate the differences between a peaceful demonstration vs a radical/violent demonstration and their effectiveness. Kinda lost the thread on that one. I don't want to write an essay, though. Trying to keep my posts short.

Is always happen throughout the world and country, politician, group of people, organization  misuse peaceful demonstration for their own gain and corrupting the peaceful demonstration. I also believe some media also use this to gain news.  



Unless I missed it, no one has pointed out this the third incident that has occurred in rapid succession. You have unarmed black man getting stalked and then murdered by a pair of white vigilantes. Charges were only filed, months after the fact, because video of the incident leaks. That was followed by three police officers breaking into a home at 3am, not identifying themselves, the residents thinking they are being robbed, the boyfriend getting his legally registered firearm to defend them, and his girlfriend getting murdered by 8 bullets. To add insult to injury they charged the boyfriend with endangering the life of an officer. Then George Floyd gets murdered and the powder keg finally blows. This isn't even taking into account incidents like two NY cops getting caught planting evidence during a traffic stop. Nothing happening to them, and them getting caught doing the same thing again. As far as I know they are still on the force. People are tired of this and nothing ever gets done about it.

Last edited by Darc Requiem - on 03 June 2020

The truth is far worse than you can imagine.



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