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Forums - Microsoft - Xbox Series X: The Most Powerful and Compatible Next Gen System

hinch on 04 June 2020
d21lewis said:

Gamers: "I didn't buy a PS4 to play old games."

Also gamers in 2014: "TLoU remastered is the best game on PS4!"


Google it.

And Switch gamers, YOU BETTER NOT have anything negative to say about cross gen titles...

Okay

Everyone buys new consoles to play remakes, remasters and FIFA/Madden/COD/Assassins Creed, happy now? :o

Last edited by hinch - on 04 June 2020

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d21lewis on 04 June 2020
hinch said:
d21lewis said:

Gamers: "I didn't buy a PS4 to play old games."

Also gamers in 2014: "TLoU remastered is the best game on PS4!"


Google it.

And Switch gamers, YOU BETTER NOT have anything negative to say about cross gen titles...

Okay

Everyone buys new consoles to play remakes, remasters and FIFA/Madden/COD/Assassins Creed, happy now? :o

Mostly happy, yes.



Dulfite on 04 June 2020
hinch said:
trunkswd said:
Microsoft is doing everything right with backwards compatibility. Adding HDR support to games that don't have it and select titles getting a boost in fps is great to hear.

Yeah true, they've been on point with BC for a while. Also double the framerate of Xbox/360 titles is insane 30>60 / 60>120fps.

I wonder if they will support for freesync for all games as well.

I can't wait for next next gen, when we will finally be able to see 360 BC games in glorious 240 fps!



sales2099 on 04 June 2020
hinch said:
sales2099 said

Nm the BC point that’s just me saying people usually talk about it around launch period. But don’t go all historical revisionist on me with KZ. That is most definitely not where gamers spent their time compared to all the cross gen titles. People bought PS4 for the investment knowing better exclusives would eventually come out and spent their money on the best versions of cross gen games in the meantime. 

I mean cmon it got the lowest meta in the series, sold over a million naturally and clawed its way to 2 million lifetime via bargain pricing. I laugh whenever I hear the anti cross gen argument because those people disregard their own history. 

Funnily enough I got my PS4 to play new games and yes KZ:SF was one despite reviews, which was not bad. I don't go by that metric and lots of people don't either. Most games I've enjoyed and completed don't even reach the 80 mark. Doesn't mean they are no good, critic reviews are all subjective to the reviewer anyway.

I don't get the logic. Or you're just trying to downplay the importance of first party titles in the initial years, because, reasons. And the 'best version' of a game has never been a factor in what makes a console popular.

You can’t deny facts because “well I played it so that can’t be true”. Me saying it had a lower meta wasn’t even the point but you chose to fixate on that? As I said before, the sales of the game were nothing compared to what people were playing. Best versions of cross gen titles. People bought the PS4 for the future investment and the play the best versions of multiplats. KZ selling over 1 million before it went bargain bin tells me PS gamers didn’t care so much for the exclusives at launch. 

Edit: Compare that to the sales of LOU Remastered and all becomes clear. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 04 June 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 on 04 June 2020
DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

Been following the debate, I’m just gonna throw out there people didn’t buy PS4 in the millions year 1 to play KZ Shadowfall and Knack. They bought the console for an investment in the new generation and to play the best versions of cross gen titles. BC tends to be a feature people want around launch period to ease themselves into the next gen/finish off unplayed games. 

But hey if that’s not your cup of tea you can wait for the first round of price cuts. That’s what I did for 360 and XB1. This time around I just don’t want to play the “poor mans” version of Halo Infinite. I imagine that mentality is felt by many others in regards to cross gen multiplats if they have the money to do something about it. 

You know Knack outsold Mario in UK at launch right? And KZ Shadowfall sold quite well, Infamous SS also sold well.

But I do agree that a good portion antecipated the buying of the console to play the better version of the crossgen games (since they were going to buy it anyway). But even if there were BC on PS4 very few were going to buy it just to replay the games they were already playing on PS3. At most some X360 gamers or Wii gamers would like the idea of not having to play PS3, but being able to buy second game hand games very cheap and play on PS4 on the first couple years.

I don't know why it is so hard to Pug to get it (and need to pretend I miss the point), BC is certainly a lot of value to some customers and no value to others (and as long as it doesn't add significant cost sure it is a good thing to have) it still doesn't move sales. He tried to use "evidence" from BC on X1 and when shut down he complained that I was using sales because I was butthurt about the BC on X1 and on XSX, even if I have praised it as probably being much better than the one on PS5.

Ya nm the BC stuff. You wither use it or you don’t. As long as you recognize the greater buying habits of PS gamers at launch (you played the exclusives, good on you). 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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sales2099 on 04 June 2020
hinch said:
d21lewis said:

Gamers: "I didn't buy a PS4 to play old games."

Also gamers in 2014: "TLoU remastered is the best game on PS4!"


Google it.

And Switch gamers, YOU BETTER NOT have anything negative to say about cross gen titles...

Okay

Everyone buys new consoles to play remakes, remasters and FIFA/Madden/COD/Assassins Creed, happy now? :o

I’m happy too, even if you didn’t admit it to me 

History is your friend :)



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

LudicrousSpeed on 04 June 2020

BC isn’t a mass system shifter but it’s an awesome feature to have, especially when it’s as well fleshed out as MS has done with the Xbox. Not only do you have a game that works on newer hardware, but it runs at a higher resolution and frame rate. Good stuff. I own at least twenty 360/OG games that I have bought solely because they are enhanced. If PS4 had something similar with PS3 or PS1 games I’d have done the same thing but the closest you get are PS Classics I guess.

I’m also holding off on playing/finishing some games like Halo 5 and Gears 5 because I expect they will run and look much better on XSX.



SvennoJ on 04 June 2020
d21lewis said:

Gamers: "I didn't buy a PS4 to play old games."

Also gamers in 2014: "TLoU remastered is the best game on PS4!"


Google it.

And Switch gamers, YOU BETTER NOT have anything negative to say about cross gen titles...

Great games are great games. I double dipped on TloU, would have even if it ran with BC

So let's look at the tentpole enhancements as Naughty Dog has outlined them. Principally, we're looking at 1080p resolution at 60fps in both single and multi-player, a 4x detail increase to texture maps and a 2x resolution boost to shadow maps. Texture streaming is no longer required owing to the PS4's prodigious RAM, and there's longer draw distances, better LOD and improved particle effects. In essence, Naughty Dog has scaled up the original game to full HD and boosted assets to match, while doubling frame-rate.

You think you get all that from BC?

What's clear is that Naughty Dog has completely re-rendered each cut-scene though - they would have been 30fps on PS3 to match the gameplay, and they're running at 60 here, with compression artefacts only really a noticeable problem on very dark scenes.

The added photo mode and other extras were also a lot of fun to play with.

Plus you had the choice to either play with sharp shadows in 30fps or 60fps for smoother gameplay. (Personally I preferred better shadows at 30fps for immersion)

Naughty dog could have done more, they could also have done a lot less. Still, I didn't buy the ps4 to play Tlou again. When the remaster came out, I didn't mind playing the enhanced version again. Ironically, BC has never enticed me to buy games I have not played yet, only to replay games I had already played out of nostalgia sake. The only remaster I have bought that I had not played yet was the Sly Cooper trilogy on ps3. Zero games bought I hadn't played yet to play in BC mode on any console. (Well technically I did. I played FF12 on ps3 when it came out, regretted it when the virtual memory card corrupted before I could finish the game. The only reason to play on ps3 was that I had not started the game yet)



DonFerrari on 04 June 2020
sales2099 said:
hinch said:

Funnily enough I got my PS4 to play new games and yes KZ:SF was one despite reviews, which was not bad. I don't go by that metric and lots of people don't either. Most games I've enjoyed and completed don't even reach the 80 mark. Doesn't mean they are no good, critic reviews are all subjective to the reviewer anyway.

I don't get the logic. Or you're just trying to downplay the importance of first party titles in the initial years, because, reasons. And the 'best version' of a game has never been a factor in what makes a console popular.

You can’t deny facts because “well I played it so that can’t be true”. Me saying it had a lower meta wasn’t even the point but you chose to fixate on that? As I said before, the sales of the game were nothing compared to what people were playing. Best versions of cross gen titles. People bought the PS4 for the future investment and the play the best versions of multiplats. KZ selling over 1 million before it went bargain bin tells me PS gamers didn’t care so much for the exclusives at launch. 

Edit: Compare that to the sales of LOU Remastered and all becomes clear. 

Yes several bought for future investment, and BC isn't future but past.

And how would I deny that most people bougth crossgen games if there weren't many exclusives on launch?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Pemalite on 04 June 2020
DonFerrari said:

I don't know why it is so hard to Pug to get it (and need to pretend I miss the point), BC is certainly a lot of value to some customers and no value to others (and as long as it doesn't add significant cost sure it is a good thing to have) it still doesn't move sales. He tried to use "evidence" from BC on X1 and when shut down he complained that I was using sales because I was butthurt about the BC on X1 and on XSX, even if I have praised it as probably being much better than the one on PS5.

Let's try to debate the topics that are presented in a post rather than take a jab at someone, cheers.

SvennoJ said:

Great games are great games. I double dipped on TloU, would have even if it ran with BC

So let's look at the tentpole enhancements as Naughty Dog has outlined them. Principally, we're looking at 1080p resolution at 60fps in both single and multi-player, a 4x detail increase to texture maps and a 2x resolution boost to shadow maps. Texture streaming is no longer required owing to the PS4's prodigious RAM, and there's longer draw distances, better LOD and improved particle effects. In essence, Naughty Dog has scaled up the original game to full HD and boosted assets to match, while doubling frame-rate.

You think you get all that from BC?



Skip to 7 minutes.

Digital Foundry:
"Improved Textures, Higher Level of Geometry and better shadow map quality as well"

Backwards Compat can do more than people think.







www.youtube.com/@Pemalite