Forums - Sony Discussion - SPOILERS The Last Of Us P2 SPOILERS

kirby007 said:
and here i assumed the lesbian aspect was the minor spoiler

We knew Ellie was lesbian since year 2014.



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Radek said:
kirby007 said:
and here i assumed the lesbian aspect was the minor spoiler

We knew Ellie was lesbian since year 2014.

thats not the way it looks when looking at the current discussion



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Radek said:
SecondWar said:

I laughed because it was a cliched response. Like "I'm not racist, but....". I suppose I came back with my own cliche, but that's what his reply reminded me of.

For Battlefield 5 I get more of the argument there, as EA tried to apply creative license with a historical setting, which didn't sit well with people. Kingdom Come: Deliverance is a similar example, where the opposite objection was raised in some corners, and I thought that was a dumb argument to say the least. Last of Us 2 is a purely fictional setting so I see less of a problem, but I'm reserving final judgement until I actually play the game.

Except I never said anything racist or in this case sexist before I replied to you.

Not nice to assume someone's sexist, just because they are anti SJW culture, but use female avatars. I have been using kpop idol pictures since I was 15 years old.

You know what? There are actually women that are anti SJW, crazy concept I know! They often get bullied by other women, mainly Twitter warriors and Reset Era.

Rather than post my initial reply, I'm going to apologise to you for lumping you in with some of the later responses that I grouped you with, given you asked a reasonable question regarding the game's setting.

Incidentally, there are plenty of views I personally hold that I'm pretty sure would set the twitter masses off on me.



Moren said:
Why does TLoU/Naughty Dog always bring the very worst in political VGC users?

Because if the leaks are to believed, then we are looking at a clear case of Naughty Dog pouring oil into the fire. They want to shock, they want to provoke, they want to have political messaging in their game. Plus there are interviews out there that ND's staff knows what they are getting into, asking people to be open-minded, expecting their design choices to be divisive.



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Personally, I have a lot of issues with the leaked plot of this game. Suffice it to say, I think it's not particularly good from top to bottom.

In regards to Abby....I don't know if she's really supposed to be trans or not, but her presentation certainly lends to the suggestion that she is, and it's what some of the leaks have alleged so...let's go with it. Having a trans character in your game, whether that be a main character, side character, etc. isn't a problem as far as I'm concerned. However, as you've chosen this character to be the one who kills at least one, but very possibly both of the main characters from the first game, that people have grown emotionally attached to, the cynical side of me can't help but assume you've made this choice to try and shield yourself from valid criticism.

Druckmann and his team were sure to know that there would be some very strong reactions to the story decisions they've made here.....but what better way to wave off disgruntled fans, than claiming they're only taking issue with this genius work of theirs, because it was a trans character at the center of the shitstorm. Surely, all these fans are just bigoted, closed-minded simpletons, who would have been perfectly happy to see Abby slaughter their beloved protagonists, if she'd just been a beautiful barbie doll.



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Angelus said:
Personally, I have a lot of issues with the leaked plot of this game. Suffice it to say, I think it's not particularly good from top to bottom.

In regards to Abby....I don't know if she's really supposed to be trans or not, but her presentation certainly lends to the suggestion that she is, and it's what some of the leaks have alleged so...let's go with it. Having a trans character in your game, whether that be a main character, side character, etc. isn't a problem as far as I'm concerned. However, as you've chosen this character to be the one who kills at least one, but very possibly both of the main characters from the first game, that people have grown emotionally attached to, the cynical side of me can't help but assume you've made this choice to try and shield yourself from valid criticism.

Druckmann and his team were sure to know that there would be some very strong reactions to the story decisions they've made here.....but what better way to wave off disgruntled fans, than claiming they're only taking issue with this genius work of theirs, because it was a trans character at the center of the shitstorm. Surely, all these fans are just bigoted, closed-minded simpletons, who would have been perfectly happy to see Abby slaughter their beloved protagonists, if she'd just been a beautiful barbie doll.

I'd like to believe that's not why they've done what they've done, but from a cynical perspective it could be.

I suppose I've been hoping that the leaked ending is only one of a few multi-endings.



SecondWar said:
sales2099 said:

?? Most of the reaction isn’t the lesbian aspect. It’s the killing of characters by a shoehorned in rando. Plus the absurdity that pronouns matter in the apocalypse. Based on Druckmans politics, not playing as Joel makes plenty sense.  

To any mods, that’s why it’s impossible to separate ND politics from the game criticism. It’s their very politics that sealed Joel’s fate. He never stood a chance. 

What makes Abby ‘a shoehorned rando’? Because she wasn’t in the first game? This is where I feel a lot of people like yourself are jumping the gun. Given Naughty Dog’s history, wouldn’t it be better to see how Abby is actually introduced and developed in the game itself. It doesn’t seem like she is some side-character, or a NPC appearing in a single mission. Imagine if the God of War 4 story had leaked, could you see the fanbase going off on one because Kratos was wandering around with ‘some random kid’? My point being in that, Atrues was an unknown going into God of War 4, but got good character development and was generally well received. Its quite possibly that Abby is handled in the same way, although I’ll reserve judgement until I actually play the game.

Im not sure what the rules allow me to say about Abby’s character, but if she is what the rumours say she is then again people are jumping the gun I feel (unless its show by her behaviour in clips that I haven’t watched). If she brings this fact up in every other sentence, then sure it will be annoying, but its not like the dialogue between between Ellie and Joel was like this in the first game.

By ‘pronouns matter in the apocalypse’, it doesn’t seem like Abby is on some rights campaign. This kinda contradicts your point about it not being about the lesbian angle. Its like with the real-world pandemic, it doesn’t just flip a switch and make everything fall neatly in line.

Well for one Kratos son is an extension of him, being the father and all. My point in general is that this is going to be divisive. 

Like Halo 5 but you play as Locke and kill Chief. You could give Locke the best intro and character development but Chief is still Chief. Fans would be pissed. My other example I said was Kill Bill where the girl in the beginning of the first movie grows up and kills Beatrix because she killed her mom in front of her. Even if she’s in the right to pursue revenge, she isn’t the star. Beatrix is. ND has a serious uphill battle to make people like Abby. 



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sales2099 said:
SecondWar said:

What makes Abby ‘a shoehorned rando’? Because she wasn’t in the first game? This is where I feel a lot of people like yourself are jumping the gun. Given Naughty Dog’s history, wouldn’t it be better to see how Abby is actually introduced and developed in the game itself. It doesn’t seem like she is some side-character, or a NPC appearing in a single mission. Imagine if the God of War 4 story had leaked, could you see the fanbase going off on one because Kratos was wandering around with ‘some random kid’? My point being in that, Atrues was an unknown going into God of War 4, but got good character development and was generally well received. Its quite possibly that Abby is handled in the same way, although I’ll reserve judgement until I actually play the game.

Im not sure what the rules allow me to say about Abby’s character, but if she is what the rumours say she is then again people are jumping the gun I feel (unless its show by her behaviour in clips that I haven’t watched). If she brings this fact up in every other sentence, then sure it will be annoying, but its not like the dialogue between between Ellie and Joel was like this in the first game.

By ‘pronouns matter in the apocalypse’, it doesn’t seem like Abby is on some rights campaign. This kinda contradicts your point about it not being about the lesbian angle. Its like with the real-world pandemic, it doesn’t just flip a switch and make everything fall neatly in line.

Well for one Kratos son is an extension of him, being the father and all. My point in general is that this is going to be divisive. 

Like Halo 5 but you play as Locke and kill Chief. You could give Locke the best intro and character development but Chief is still Chief. Fans would be pissed. My other example I said was Kill Bill where the girl in the beginning of the first movie grows up and kills Beatrix because she killed her mom in front of her. Even if she’s in the right to pursue revenge, she isn’t the star. Beatrix is. ND has a serious uphill battle to make people like Abby. 

You (thankfully) never kill Chief when playing as Locke. But fair point, I would have been one of those pissed fans. This where I'm still willing to give the game a chance to introduce Abby properly, as I don't think you can properly judge the character based off of leaks. Certainly, when I've read plot summaries on Wikipedia before seeing some films, I still enjoy watching the film as it just isn't the same thing.

Last edited by SecondWar - on 30 April 2020

SecondWar said:
One thing I find funny is the last three messages that aren't mine are all from male gamers posting anti-'woke' message, and all three have women as their profile picture.

Complaining about being woke isn’t limited to men, nor does it target women necessarily. Women can equally be conservative. 



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goopy20 said:
Groundking said:
Can't say I'm too hopeful about the future of ND. It's never good when you get rid of key tallent (Amy Hennig) then ending up at a point where you have huge staff turnover and it's hard to see how they don't end up with very messy development processes. Games are almost never good when there's development hell add in all the woke nonsense being stuffed into it and I can see lots of poor games being released :( It's not like we've not seen this story before (think Mass Effect, for example)

Amy left ND 6 years ago lol. Besides she has been replaced with Halley Gross a writer who's worked on big stuff like HBO's Westworld. I have no idea why anyone would think TLOU2 isn't going to deliver. IGN was completely in awe when they played it and my guess is that the story will be one of the most shocking and memorable in gaming history. 

 Nobody is debating the critical success. And we all know it will sell millions.

But will it sell as much as the first? More? Unlikely. Spoilers and word of mouth is going to have some effect on the games legs. Social media will be a divisive political spectrum shitstorm. 

This is a game made for western audiences (NA/Europe). At least half of which identify as conservative. Who happen to be majority white and Christian. Not just European descent, the 70 million+ Hispanics in USA are also devout Christians. Then all of Mexico which is a growing gaming market. The growing population Muslim’s in Europe have similar views on the controversial aspects. Any of these dominant groups that own a PlayStation will be in some fashion pissed off.

Then you have good ol neutral gamers who will simply be pissed at key characters dying.
Point: Know your demographic. ND put their own agenda above the very people they are trying to sell to. 



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