Forums - Sony Discussion - SPOILERS The Last Of Us P2 SPOILERS

shikamaru317 said:
Azzanation said:

I dont believe this is real, reading through alot of the spoilers and it just sounds off to me.
Why would a well respected company opt for this direction?
I think these leaks are fake.

SPOLIER
If these leaks are true than TLOU2 is basiaclly evil Catholics vs LGBTs.

Worth noting that there was a different leak about a week ago that said exactly that, the plot revolved around a Christian based religious cult. 

https://www.vg247.com/2020/04/21/the-last-of-us-part-2-christian-cult/

We've now had 2 slightly different leaks suggesting roughly the same thing. Either they're both fake, or the saying "where there is smoke there is fire" holds true and the game really is about that. Frankly, considering how SJW Naughty Dog (and Sony in general) has been growing in recent years, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the game really is designed to be anti-Christian. 

Yeah iv been hearing the same things, its a very strange direction and some times makes you think that someone at ND is heavily regilous against Christians or is part of the LGBT+ community and want to show it in the game.. maybe i am over thinking it but from all the leaks i wouldnt be suprised at all.



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sales2099 said:
KratosLives said:

You do realize there is a skip cutscene button?  the technical marvel and gameplay alone is worth the price.

You right the game will sell millions regardless. However this is a narrative driven game. If people know they won’t like the story, the motivation isn’t there and thus you are just playing as whoever killing whoever with no attachment to enjoy it. It’s not the optimal experience. 

Thats not entritely true. When i firs tplayed through mgs1 when i was young, young enough to not comprehend most of what was going on in the game, except for go here and do that,  i had no idea what snake was blabbering about or the story arc, but i was so intrigued with it, fell in love with the gameplay. Same with mgs2, i was in it for the technical brilliance and gameplay, i wasn't bothered by the slightest to be playing as raiden. I can easily shut things off in my head. If i don;t like the direction of the story, i won't think about it and just play the game for the fun of it. 



Azzanation said:
shikamaru317 said:

Worth noting that there was a different leak about a week ago that said exactly that, the plot revolved around a Christian based religious cult. 

https://www.vg247.com/2020/04/21/the-last-of-us-part-2-christian-cult/

We've now had 2 slightly different leaks suggesting roughly the same thing. Either they're both fake, or the saying "where there is smoke there is fire" holds true and the game really is about that. Frankly, considering how SJW Naughty Dog (and Sony in general) has been growing in recent years, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the game really is designed to be anti-Christian. 

Yeah iv been hearing the same things, its a very strange direction and some times makes you think that someone at ND is heavily regilous against Christians or is part of the LGBT+ community and want to show it in the game.. maybe i am over thinking it but from all the leaks i wouldnt be suprised at all.

Neil druckmann doesn't like straight white christians, judging by what he said, or atleast perceived as one. He said he is jewish yet by default seen as a christian. He was either implying people see him as a non progressive white christian or he sees him self as one. I didn't know that most white straight male christians are something to be ashamed of. I feel like most of them are law abiding citizens, who make up out many doctors, teachers, professors, lawyers, labourers, pizza owners down in new york, etc.. they are found everywhere etc..  This idea that christian males aren't tolerate to lgbt or something along the lines as a representation,  i feel Neil is abit deranged. 



SecondWar said:
sub-zero-TM said:

And the reason i used that random guy from the train level is to prove a point it's because he's a nobody an unimportant/insignificant character. So apparently Abby's parents (that roided up girl or a guy or who the heck knows with Naughty Dog anymore) that you play as him/her for the other half of the game, his/her parents where one of the surgeons Joel kills in the first game while trying to save Ellie..

Now that's lazy storytelling at it's finest here.

How is that lazy story telling? Something a character did earlier in the series has a unintended and unforeseen consequence that comes back to bite them in the future. It adds more depth to the story.

He and haley gross didn't come up with that for that reason, considering that the event was pretty minor in the last of us or was shown in a way to be  a not so significant event. No one was crying over it. They are just using that reason to fill in narrative to make a reason for that character's existance. A character created not because heavy thought was gone into the story of ellie and joel, but for the sake of diversity and sake of breaking new ground, to appease other communities and get accolades for it.  Neil is giving us the game he and she wants, thinking of their own ideals and such, not taking into account what the fans want, in terms of story. 



sales2099 said:
SecondWar said:
A lot of the criticism I’ve seen I feel is an over-reaction. You’ve not even seen some of the characters before, let they game actually introduce them and build them up before saying you don’t care about them. That said, it does seem odd that Joel seemingly isn’t a playable character. A lot of it seems to be driven by a negative reaction to Ellie being a lesbian, and calling it pandering - whereas Ellie is actually a great example of a game not pandering this sort of thing. I’ve seen a rumour about Abby’s character though that I’m not sure if it’s true, but it seems to add more fuel to the fire.

Naughty Dog have definitely taken a big risk here, if the stuff about Joel is true I’ll give them probs for taking the story in that direction, rather than having a more typical story. It is the sort of one that will invoke a reaction as the fanbase is attached to him.

?? Most of the reaction isn’t the lesbian aspect. It’s the killing of characters by a shoehorned in rando. Plus the absurdity that pronouns matter in the apocalypse. Based on Druckmans politics, not playing as Joel makes plenty sense.  

To any mods, that’s why it’s impossible to separate ND politics from the game criticism. It’s their very politics that sealed Joel’s fate. He never stood a chance. 

Yeah it's like arnie taking a back seat in the terminator dark fate with a little feminine touch and hey  working in drappery, john connor being shot off at the start,  and having girl power take over. Hurrah for progression. But hey atleast tommy makes a supporting role. Lets see if he lives. 



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Azzanation said:

I dont believe this is real, reading through alot of the spoilers and it just sounds off to me.
Why would a well respected company opt for this direction?
I think these leaks are fake.

SPOLIER
If these leaks are true than TLOU2 is basiaclly evil Catholics vs LGBTs.

why evil catholics though? and not some redneck christian cult? 



sales2099 said:
SecondWar said:
A lot of the criticism I’ve seen I feel is an over-reaction. You’ve not even seen some of the characters before, let they game actually introduce them and build them up before saying you don’t care about them. That said, it does seem odd that Joel seemingly isn’t a playable character. A lot of it seems to be driven by a negative reaction to Ellie being a lesbian, and calling it pandering - whereas Ellie is actually a great example of a game not pandering this sort of thing. I’ve seen a rumour about Abby’s character though that I’m not sure if it’s true, but it seems to add more fuel to the fire.

Naughty Dog have definitely taken a big risk here, if the stuff about Joel is true I’ll give them probs for taking the story in that direction, rather than having a more typical story. It is the sort of one that will invoke a reaction as the fanbase is attached to him.

?? Most of the reaction isn’t the lesbian aspect. It’s the killing of characters by a shoehorned in rando. Plus the absurdity that pronouns matter in the apocalypse. Based on Druckmans politics, not playing as Joel makes plenty sense.  

To any mods, that’s why it’s impossible to separate ND politics from the game criticism. It’s their very politics that sealed Joel’s fate. He never stood a chance. 

What makes Abby ‘a shoehorned rando’? Because she wasn’t in the first game? This is where I feel a lot of people like yourself are jumping the gun. Given Naughty Dog’s history, wouldn’t it be better to see how Abby is actually introduced and developed in the game itself. It doesn’t seem like she is some side-character, or a NPC appearing in a single mission. Imagine if the God of War 4 story had leaked, could you see the fanbase going off on one because Kratos was wandering around with ‘some random kid’? My point being in that, Atrues was an unknown going into God of War 4, but got good character development and was generally well received. Its quite possibly that Abby is handled in the same way, although I’ll reserve judgement until I actually play the game.

Im not sure what the rules allow me to say about Abby’s character, but if she is what the rumours say she is then again people are jumping the gun I feel (unless its show by her behaviour in clips that I haven’t watched). If she brings this fact up in every other sentence, then sure it will be annoying, but its not like the dialogue between between Ellie and Joel was like this in the first game.

By ‘pronouns matter in the apocalypse’, it doesn’t seem like Abby is on some rights campaign. This kinda contradicts your point about it not being about the lesbian angle. Its like with the real-world pandemic, it doesn’t just flip a switch and make everything fall neatly in line.

Last edited by SecondWar - on 30 April 2020

So personally I was expecting Joel to die in this game, for some reason I was expecting Ellie to be his killer. I know alot of people are pissed about Joel but I'm not for that reason.
I'm not expecting Ellie to die and even though it's a unconfirmed report I'm still not expecting it. I wouldn't be happy because I think she's a great character, however if she did then that's how the story goes, we can't control a books plot that we read so expect surprises.

The one thing I don't get and I can't see how it's going to play out is, playing as Abby. Everybody that played the last of us has came to really like Ellie and Joel, so how can they expect the player to enjoy playing as a character that kills one of them and beats the shit out the other? I'm struggling to see how we're meant to get a connection with her as a player and enjoy being her. It's a strange decision.



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KratosLives said:
SecondWar said:

How is that lazy story telling? Something a character did earlier in the series has a unintended and unforeseen consequence that comes back to bite them in the future. It adds more depth to the story.

He and haley gross didn't come up with that for that reason, considering that the event was pretty minor in the last of us or was shown in a way to be  a not so significant event. No one was crying over it. They are just using that reason to fill in narrative to make a reason for that character's existence. A character created not because heavy thought was gone into the story of ellie and joel, but for the sake of diversity and sake of breaking new ground, to appease other communities and get accolades for it.  Neil is giving us the game he and she wants, thinking of their own ideals and such, not taking into account what the fans want, in terms of story. 

That feels like an assumption. The event in question, Joel's rescue of Ellie, in the last game is hardly a minor one. Likely no one in-game was crying about it at the time as they were all dead. I'll give you that it does make it seem that Last of Us was initially planned as a standalone game otherwise Abby would have been introduced in a cliffhanger ending.

That Abby's identity is possibly something that could have been swapped out, but everytime anyone puts a character like this in a game/film etc then they are accused of pandering for diversity points. No one seems prepared to give the character a chance.

Last edited by SecondWar - on 30 April 2020

After prologue in TLOU, it cuts to Summer - 20 years later. Then TLOU campaign takes about a year until it's over.

TLOU 2 takes place 5 years after TLOU is finished.

It has been at least 25 years since pandemic started in TLOU Universe.

So how could Abby (looks anywhere from 18 to 25 year old) change their gender, in post-apocaliptic world, and how does she get the hormones?

Or was she only made Transgender because Neil Druckmann loves taking advice from Anita Sarkeesian?

Last edited by Radek - on 30 April 2020