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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Nintendo banned Square from their offices for 10 years after FFVII went to PlayStation. EDIT: japanese business model is akin to Yakuza

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What do you think

Nintendo is God they never make a mistake 7 26.92%
 
Square the ones who to be blame 8 30.77%
 
I dont why i just hate Sony 2 7.69%
 
I 9 34.62%
 
Total:26
Leynos said:
loy310 said:
Wow, 90's nintendo is just as bad as 2010's xbox. Cut off their nose to spite their face for a whole decade.

More like mid-2000s Sony, who was arrogant and somewhat difficult to worth with. Many games jumped from Sony to 360 those first couple of years.

How was Sony hard to work with? The PS3 had potential that was hard/complicated to tap. But Sony being hard to work with from a third party stand point? That's the first time I ever heard of that. Care to elaborate and provide a source?



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RolStoppable said:
Hynad said:

Yes, that's logical fallacy. But you can never concede to being wrong, so why do I bother? You mention one event, and says all events that happened after it necessarily happened for the same reason. That's logical fallacy and one heck of an intellectual short-cut. 

I mentioned events that are the same, but you are unable to admit it because you are too fixated on putting blame on Nintendo in a situation where no responsibility can be assigned to Nintendo, because deals such as the one between Squaresoft and Sony are made behind closed doors where nobody else gets invited to have any say, let alone attempt a bid on their own.

Sony couldn't do anything to prevent Tales of Vesperia going to the Xbox 360 because Sony didn't even know that a deal between Microsoft and Bandai-Namco was in the works. That's why assigning any sort of blame to Sony in this instance would be stupid. It's the same with the deal between Sony and Squaresoft because Nintendo only learned about the deal after it had already been made. When Nintendo learned about it, that is when Squaresoft was told by Yamauchi that they don't need to come back after the deal has expired. This tidbit of the story is then framed in a way as if Nintendo was the evil entity in that specific constellation when even the slightest trace of objectivity should lead to the conclusion that Squaresoft let themselves be paid off by Sony, so it was Squaresoft who really hurt the relationship between them and Nintendo, not the other way around.

Another example is the deal between Nintendo and Capcom to make Monster Hunter exclusive to Nintendo consoles for several years. Who is the first company you would blame for that to happen? Is it Sony?

So you are denying the fact that Nintendo asked third parties a bigger share for putting games on their platforms, and, coupled with the restrictive storage medium, is what lead Squaresoft to seek a better deal?

You say I'm too fixated on putting the blame on Nintendo. You do the same when it comes to Sony. And with you, Nintendo is never to blame for third parties seeking a better deal elsewhere. They're a poor victim of an industry widespread conspiracy against them. 
 

When everyone is acting a certain way towards you, it's fair to assume it's not the entire world that needs to correct its ways.



Hynad said:

What a yawn fest.

But indeed, Nintendo didn't change, which is why third parties left and right migrated to a place where business was better for them. 

Thats not Nintendos fault either. Nintendo went the direction that always worked for them aswell as the devs as history proir to them leaving shows. In this case, companies left Nintendo for even more greed and dropped the platform that made them super successful.

No wonder Nintendo was pissed.



"One thing that history has taught us is that AAA publishers at large are very much like whores who provide their service to the highest bidder. Another thing is that console manufacturers only pay for games they see value in, so unsurprisingly it's rare that small developers get deals. That's basically why indie developers have a very different attitude towards Nintendo than AAA publishers do, because the vast majority of indie developers doesn't get any deals, so they have no business interest in fueling a narrative where Nintendo is bad and everyone would be better off if Nintendo stopped making consoles."

Even if you agree with nothing else, you have to at least acknowledge this.



Azzanation said:
Hynad said:

No. It doesn't stand. Business is business. In business you don't stick around with a given entity out of emotional attachment or empathy or what have you. You go where the money is, or where deals are better. That's what Squaresoft did. And history demonstrates that it was ultimately plenty healthy for their business. You lot try to include emotions into the mix and it's quite hilarious to say the least.

You dont know the past console industry very well than. It was very passionate industry especally for Japanese developers. There is alot of honor when it comes to buisness deals and making games. Break that honor than expect to be shafted. In this case, Square broke that honor with Nintendo and due to there dishonorablity, Nintendo banned them from thier offices. Its a fair call regardless whos in the right or wrong.

If Square wanted to be still friends with Nintendo than they should have reconsidered there decision to move. Remember Square changed, not Nintendo.

So will you concede that Nintendo broke that honor more and before when they broke a signed contract for the development of the CD? Or imaginary contracts have more value on your head?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:

So will you concede that Nintendo broke that honor more and before when they broke a signed contract for the development of the CD? Or imaginary contracts have more value on your head?

How is Nintendo breaking that honor code by sticking with what works for them at the time? Just because others went CD doesnt mean they needed to change, i for one am glad they stuck with cartridges. Nintendo of course were experimenting with CDs but decided cartridges were better for there buisness model.

Remember Nintendo before CD gaming was king and companies like Square made there success off Nintendo. Lets not pretend the NES and SNES existed.



The poll option is trolling AF, that's epic LMAO



Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:

So will you concede that Nintendo broke that honor more and before when they broke a signed contract for the development of the CD? Or imaginary contracts have more value on your head?

How is Nintendo breaking that honor code by sticking with what works for them at the time? Just because others went CD doesnt mean they needed to change, i for one am glad they stuck with cartridges. Nintendo of course were experimenting with CDs but decided cartridges were better for there buisness model.

Remember Nintendo before CD gaming was king and companies like Square made there success off Nintendo. Lets not pretend the NES and SNES existed.

They signed a contract with Sony to develop the CD, backstabbed Sony and that created PS1, then they signed with Phillips, backstabbed them and thus the bad Phillips CD-i.

So yes it seems like you are more lenient with companies breaking contracts than with companies that without contract gone for a better deal. Don't remember you calling Insomniac traitors when they made Sunset Overdrive.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

They signed a contract with Sony to develop the CD, backstabbed Sony and that created PS1, then they signed with Phillips, backstabbed them and thus the bad Phillips CD-i.

So yes it seems like you are more lenient with companies breaking contracts than with companies that without contract gone for a better deal. Don't remember you calling Insomniac traitors when they made Sunset Overdrive.

I dont know the full story between what happened with Nintendo and Sony, but i do know that Nintendo werent the only ones saying no to Sony, Sega said no to them as well. Clearly there is more to it than Nintendo just packing up and leaving, there is speculation Sony wanted more and both Nintendo and Sega forseen Sonys plans. Who knows and this is not the topic.

However if what you say is true than sure Nintendo broke that code but we dont know the full backstory, we only know from the outside. Now this is about Square moving one of the most established IPs and locking it exclusivity to a rival conpetitors platform. Thats why Nintendo was pissed.

I dont understand how Sunset Overdrive is even comparable to this type of move. If Ratchet and Clank crossed to Xbox than id see your point, but your point on a new IP that Sony didnt want is not the same as Final Fantasy.



Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:

They signed a contract with Sony to develop the CD, backstabbed Sony and that created PS1, then they signed with Phillips, backstabbed them and thus the bad Phillips CD-i.

So yes it seems like you are more lenient with companies breaking contracts than with companies that without contract gone for a better deal. Don't remember you calling Insomniac traitors when they made Sunset Overdrive.

I dont know the full story between what happened with Nintendo and Sony, but i do know that Nintendo werent the only ones saying no to Sony, Sega said no to them as well. Clearly there is more to it than Nintendo just packing up and leaving, there is speculation Sony wanted more and both Nintendo and Sega forseen Sonys plans. Who knows and this is not the topic.

However if what you say is true than sure Nintendo broke that code but we dont know the full backstory, we only know from the outside. Now this is about Square moving one of the most established IPs and locking it exclusivity to a rival conpetitors platform. Thats why Nintendo was pissed.

I dont understand how Sunset Overdrive is even comparable to this type of move. If Ratchet and Clank crossed to Xbox than id see your point, but your point on a new IP that Sony didnt want is not the same as Final Fantasy.

I recall Sony wanted more control than Nintendo was comfortable with. I don't think Phillips felt wronged. They made a deal with Nintendo for Hotel Mario. 3 Zelda games and Super Mario World 2: Wacky Worlds. The last one was canned mid-development. Lol seeing how bad those games were. I'd say Phillips was the one in the wrong.

As for SEGA. Don't put much faith in that being on Sony. SEGA of Japan constantly made awful decisions and was very stubborn. SEGA of America often had better ideas to do things but SOJ always overruled them and made things worse.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!