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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo Direct Mini has just launched

Wyrdness said:
Vodacixi said:

So... are we bringing up Wikipedia now?

We can use the dictionary if you want

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/remake

Still no mention of the new product requiring to be different.

Have you read the movie example (which is the closest to what we are talking about)? Because that supports my claim xD



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Vodacixi said:

Have you read the movie example (which is the closest to what we are talking about)? Because that supports my claim xD

Nothing here supports your claim the's no mention of a requirement to be different.

All the definitions on the page.

1. COUNTABLE NOUN

A remake is a film that has the same story, and often the same title, as a film that was made earlier.
British English
NOUN(ˈriːˌmeɪk  )
1. 
something that is made again, esp a new version of an old film
2. 
the act of making again or anew
American English
1. to make again or anew


Wyrdness said:
Vodacixi said:

Have you read the movie example (which is the closest to what we are talking about)? Because that supports my claim xD

Nothing here supports your claim the's no mention of a requirement to be different.

All the definitions on the page.

1. COUNTABLE NOUN

A remake is a film that has the same story, and often the same title, as a film that was made earlier.
British English
NOUN(ˈriːˌmeɪk  )
1. 
something that is made again, esp a new version of an old film
2. 
the act of making again or anew
American English
1. to make again or anew

Ok. Do you know any movie or song remake that is a copy of the original work? Yeah, neither do I...



Vodacixi said:

Ok. Do you know any movie or song remake that is a copy of the original work? Yeah, neither do I...

Yes the are many in fact the pop band Steps' biggest hits were all remakes of older songs such as their track Tradegy which was a cover of the BeeGees original hence the criticism of them being a cover band.



Wyrdness said:
Vodacixi said:

Ok. Do you know any movie or song remake that is a copy of the original work? Yeah, neither do I...

Yes the are many in fact the pop band Steps' biggest hits were all remakes of older songs such as their track Tradegy which was a cover of the BeeGees original hence the criticism of them being a cover band.

But that is not an exact copy. Is the same song, but with a different vibe and sang by different people. It takes some liberties, it's not a 1:1 copy. Otis Redding also did many covers of already existing songs, but you can say it's not the same work:

The song is essentally the same, but you can tell there is a different overall feeling, voice and tone. It's not a remastering, it's not a copy: is a different take on an already existing song.



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Vodacixi said:

But that is not an exact copy. Is the same song, but with a different vibe and sang by different people. It takes some liberties, it's not a 1:1 copy. Otis Redding also did many covers of already existing songs, but you can say it's not the same work:

The song is essentally the same, but you can tell there is a different overall feeling, voice and tone. It's not a remastering, it's not a copy: is a different take on an already existing song.

Going by that logic and angle a game changing models, textures, animations, menus, controls and adding new story arcs is a remake as even though the story is the same the assets and all aren't and this is going by your notion here after all that's arguably even more changes than many cover songs make especially as many of them word for word and beat for beat don't change much, either way it makes no difference as the definition  as per dictionary doesn't change to support your argument that a change is required.

Last edited by Wyrdness - on 27 March 2020

Everyone is debating semantics and I’m over here happy that it seems as though Melia’s storyline is finally going to get some closure...



Have a nice day...

leedlelee said:
Everyone is debating semantics and I’m over here happy that it seems as though Melia’s storyline is finally going to get some closure...

But will her AI still be broken? Would certainly make the epilogue annoying as hell to play lul.



Wyrdness said:
Vodacixi said:

But that is not an exact copy. Is the same song, but with a different vibe and sang by different people. It takes some liberties, it's not a 1:1 copy. Otis Redding also did many covers of already existing songs, but you can say it's not the same work:

The song is essentally the same, but you can tell there is a different overall feeling, voice and tone. It's not a remastering, it's not a copy: is a different take on an already existing song.

Going by that logic and angle a game changing models, textures, animations, menus, controls and adding new story arcs is a remake as even though the story is the same the assets and all aren't and this is going by your notion here after all that's arguably even more changes than many cover songs make especially as many of them word for word and beat for beat don't change much, either way it makes no difference as the definition  as per dictionary doesn't change to support your argument that a change is required.

No, because the changes that the game brings to the table do not change the feeling or the core game at all. In fact, XC DE is so equal to the original that you can pretty much overlap the two and you get a 100% match. The changes are mostly improvements in different areas because its a remastering work. The intention is not to make a new and different version of Xenoblade Chronicles like a music cover does. The intention is to make Xenoblade Chronicles look, play and sound better, while being the same game. Adding a story segment does not make it a remake, otherwise games like The World Ends With You Final Remix would be a remake.

Again, intention is a big factor. You can't mention a movie or a song remake that id exactly the same as the original with better sound and clearer instruments or with clearer picture quality and improved special effects. Because that, my friend, is called remaster. Which is exactly what Xenoblade is.

Again, not that is better or worse for being a remake or a remaster. The game will still be awesome and I can see there was a ton of work and effort put into it.



Vodacixi said:

No, because the changes that the game brings to the table do not change the feeling or the core game at all. In fact, XC DE is so equal to the original that you can pretty much overlap the two and you get a 100% match. The changes are mostly improvements in different areas because its a remastering work. The intention is not to make a new and different version of Xenoblade Chronicles like a music cover does. The intention is to make Xenoblade Chronicles look, play and sound better, while being the same game. Adding a story segment does not make it a remake, otherwise games like The World Ends With You Final Remix would be a remake.

Again, intention is a big factor. You can't mention a movie or a song remake that id exactly the same as the original with better sound and clearer instruments or with clearer picture quality and improved special effects. Because that, my friend, is called remaster. Which is exactly what Xenoblade is.

Again, not that is better or worse for being a remake or a remaster. The game will still be awesome and I can see there was a ton of work and effort put into it.

New story elements connecting to other games and new ground up assets can change things significantly and the fact it has added content and ground up assets means you can never get 100% match as well, new ground up assets bringing the game to modern standards do make a game a remake while a remaster is if they took the Wii version and upped the resolution like people do on Dolphin, XBC:DE is a new and different version of the original it's a modernized version of it to bring the game into the modern era, TWEWY doesn't rebuild all its assets so that comparison is a fallacy at this point.

I did mention songs you chose to be selective and vague with your argument on changes because the actual reality here is its the only way for your argument to live as it has no consistency in so many cases for example you're saying the core and feeling of the game is the same yet many cover songs don't change this aspect either such as the many Staying Alive covers and even the cover I mentioned earlier where the only difference is who is singing that's before we get to the whole notion on the subjectivity of core and feel. Under your argument FFIV on DS isn't a remake because it retains the same core and feeling and neither is Panzer Dragoon a game you earlier allowed a pass yet it as well retains the exact same core and feeling. Another example is earlier you argued with someone about the developer knowing more about their own game well if we go by that SOTC PS4 which is exactly the same as the original is a remake as that's how Sony and the developer class it yet now it contradicts your stance on every level as linked below.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-06-14-shadow-of-the-colossus-on-ps4-is-a-remake-not-a-remaster-says-shuhei-yoshida

"It is a remake. The game content is the same as the original version, but all the assets are being remade," he said.