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Forums - Politics - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

sundin13 said:
JWeinCom said:
sundin13 said:

The whole "Equal Protection Clause" line seems to be total nonsense, essentially arguing that because mail in ballots are different by nature, they should all be thrown out. I can't imagine any judge even giving that line of thinking the time of day, so if that's what they are riding with I'm pretty comfortable that the result will stand. We just need to get into December so we can move on from this whole nonsense. 

I feel like she's just confused on that. Maybe I'm just giving her the benefit of the doubt, but it seems so patently stupid that it can't be.

Everyone in Pennsylvania had the right to request a mail in ballot, so I can't see how there could possibly be any case for an equal protection violation of the 14th Amendment. 

What they could argue is that it is unfair to voters in other states who may not have been able to vote absentee without a specific reason. But, you couldn't make an equal protection claim based on that, because it's not like Pennsylvania somehow prevented voters in Texas from voting.

What I think she probably meant, although I'm meeting her more than halfway, is a violation of the Privileges and Immunities clause which states that "the citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states." So, if citizens in Pennsylvania have the right to vote absentee without any specific reason, and Texas citizens don't, that somehow violates the clause.

Granted, that's a pretty wild interpretation of that clause. Generally, the clause is interpreted to mean that you have to give out of state people or businesses the same treatment as in state people and businesses. This kind of interpretation would essentially mean that the state with the most restrictive voting laws effectively sets voting rights for all 50 states, which would violate the full faith and credit clause and probably the 10th Amendment. But, at least it sort of maybe almost makes a little bit of sense, compared to a 14th Amendment argument.

My post was in reference to this lawsuit, which I assumed to be the one she was referencing: https://cdn.donaldjtrump.com/public-files/press_assets/2020-11-09-complaint-as-filed.pdf

Specifically, look at points 13 and 14. It largely argues that there was a different set of procedures for in person and mail in voting which created a "two tiered" system. Imo, this is complete BS. As you said, everyone had the ability to vote by mail or in person, and in neither instance is any vote being held above another. It seems virtually every court is basically ignoring the wider request to throw out the mail in ballots and have instead focused on smaller subsections of ballots (and similarly ruling against Trump, ex https://wgntv.com/news/judges-rule-against-6-trump-campaign-lawsuits-to-invalidate-nearly-9000-pennsylvania-ballots/ )

Ok I see. It is indeed a privileges and immunities claim, but it's also a fourteenth amendment issue. 

Where I screwed up is that I forgot that the 14th Amendment also has a privileges and immunity clause. But, in my defense, I'm pretty sure that when the issue is state or municipal residence, that is typically considered an issue under the article IV clause. I'm guessing that they couldn't use that here because they are dealing with a federal right, and not a state right. 

Their 14th Amendment claim, as I understand it, is that even though everyone in PA could request an absentee ballot, the process was handled differently in different counties, so not all citizens have the same rights. Also, they're making a claim that by allowing a process that, according to them, leads to a chance of fraud, the privilege of voting is violated. Then there's also a 14th Amendment due process claim that because fraudulent votes may have been allowed in, that effectively strips voters of the right "to vote without the taint of fraud or intimidation".

Essentially the argument is that certain counties may have done things improperly with mail in voting, and maybe that allowed fraudulent votes, and because of that, everyone's vote becomes suspect, and that's unfair to all the people who voted non fraudulently.

To put it more succinctly, they are manufacturing suspicion of fraud, and then complaining that the people were deprived of the right to vote without suspicion of fraud. That's an impressive display of mental gymnastics. Look at around 156 for the 14th amendment conversation.

Of course, it's a nonsensical argument. The Courts are not going to invalidate thousands of votes with no evidence of fraud. And they're not going to literally disenfranchise 700K people because the rest of the voters may be tainted by potential fraud. There would also be the issue of why this claim was not brought in a more timely manner. And, that mail in voting has been around for 100+ years and been considered constitutional. 

Trump was reportedly upset that he didn't have a dream team of lawyers like Bush did in 2000, but there's a reason for that... Bush had an actual case. 



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I haven't checked Trump's twitter for over 12 hours. Is the election still rigged?



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Since Trump won't admit defeat until Hell freezes over I think that's pretty good news for the Satanist Biden supporters.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Ka-pi96 said:
Hiku said:
vivster said:
I haven't checked Trump's twitter for over 12 hours. Is the election still rigged?

I guess his parents forgot to teach him "saying something doesn't make it true". That should be something you learn pretty early on too...

His lesson was a bit different.

"If you say something and it doesn't become true, you're not saying it often enough. If it still hasn't come true you should probably sue."



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

The fact that Trump is trying to undermine our democracy is just further proof that he is not fit to be president.



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Paperboy_J said:
The fact that Trump is trying to undermine our democracy is just further proof that he is not fit to be president.

I expected this from Trump. I did not expect that the rest of the party was so far gone. 



Paperboy_J said:
The fact that Trump is trying to undermine our democracy is just further proof that he is not fit to be president.

Us libtard cucks have been saying that since 2015 when he started gaining steam. We've known it since before he ran for office, and we've been repeating it daily ever since...Trust me, anyone who has two eyes and just as many neurons to rub together for a spark of thought knew this to be the case. 



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JWeinCom said:
Paperboy_J said:
The fact that Trump is trying to undermine our democracy is just further proof that he is not fit to be president.

I expected this from Trump. I did not expect that the rest of the party was so far gone. 

Well if you think about it, I see why they are still falling in line.  Currently President Trump is sitting at 72 Million votes which is still a damn lot of people.  If he was way lower than that they would have bailed in a heartbeat but with that number they feel he still has use.  A lot of them believe they can still squeeze that golden goose for as much and as long as possible and if you think about it they are probably right.  Even though Biden won, there wasn't this big blue wave that was going to give Dems the Senate and secure the house like they thought.  The Dems have a long way to go and there are a number of issues they have not realize why they are still on shaky grounds with a large segment of Americans.  Maybe Joe and some Dems need to do that old patriot thing where you huge the flag and go all Pro America.  This is what basically has kept Trump going, this belief that he cares about the us even though his policies only appear to be for the lower income class.  Even though nothing really has changed for lower income people, he has given them that feel good feeling of US first and US is the greatest.  I have to give him props for understanding this basic principle.  People care more about the illusion then they do the reality.

Case in point would be a few interviews I have seen where people on the streets were critical of the ACA but did not know they were using it and not only that but the inclusions of items within the ACA helped them with maintaining and keeping their health insurance based on previous medical conditions.  Ignorance is a very strong tool in controlling people and both sides do it well but seems to me Reps have mastered the art way better than Dems.



vivster said:
Ka-pi96 said:
Hiku said:
vivster said:
I haven't checked Trump's twitter for over 12 hours. Is the election still rigged?

I guess his parents forgot to teach him "saying something doesn't make it true". That should be something you learn pretty early on too...

His lesson was a bit different.

"If you say something and it doesn't become true, you're not saying it often enough. If it still hasn't come true you should probably sue."

Meh, I’d would say his lesson was probably more like this.

if you say something and it doesn’t become true, throw money at it until it is true.



Machiavellian said:
JWeinCom said:
Paperboy_J said:
The fact that Trump is trying to undermine our democracy is just further proof that he is not fit to be president.

I expected this from Trump. I did not expect that the rest of the party was so far gone. 

Well if you think about it, I see why they are still falling in line.  Currently President Trump is sitting at 72 Million votes which is still a damn lot of people.  If he was way lower than that they would have bailed in a heartbeat but with that number they feel he still has use.  A lot of them believe they can still squeeze that golden goose for as much and as long as possible and if you think about it they are probably right.  Even though Biden won, there wasn't this big blue wave that was going to give Dems the Senate and secure the house like they thought.  The Dems have a long way to go and there are a number of issues they have not realize why they are still on shaky grounds with a large segment of Americans.  Maybe Joe and some Dems need to do that old patriot thing where you huge the flag and go all Pro America.  This is what basically has kept Trump going, this belief that he cares about the us even though his policies only appear to be for the lower income class.  Even though nothing really has changed for lower income people, he has given them that feel good feeling of US first and US is the greatest.  I have to give him props for understanding this basic principle.  People care more about the illusion then they do the reality.

Case in point would be a few interviews I have seen where people on the streets were critical of the ACA but did not know they were using it and not only that but the inclusions of items within the ACA helped them with maintaining and keeping their health insurance based on previous medical conditions.  Ignorance is a very strong tool in controlling people and both sides do it well but seems to me Reps have mastered the art way better than Dems.

Call me crazy but I thought they at least had some small shred of integrity left. Not much, but enough that they wouldn't try to blatantly undermine democracy.