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Forums - Politics - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

vivster said:
KLXVER said:

Yeah, cut the taxes of the rich and they actually pay their taxes. Tax them more and they will leave the state or find legal ways to pay way less. So no other option than to raise the taxes of everyone. The rich pay a huge amount of the taxes in the country. The top 1% pays like 37% of all taxes.

And they should be paying more, or what do you think those tax havens are for? They are hiding their cash to lower the taxes they have to actually pay. Income inequality has to come down somehow and it's obviously not going to trickle down.

Income inequality? Most rich people arent just sitting on their ass doing nothing and have buckets of money delivered to them. They work hard and have their entire life. Just silly to think someone working at McDonalds should make the same as a person who built their own company over many years. Equal opportunity is great. Equal outcome is ridiculous. 



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KLXVER said:
vivster said:

And they should be paying more, or what do you think those tax havens are for? They are hiding their cash to lower the taxes they have to actually pay. Income inequality has to come down somehow and it's obviously not going to trickle down.

Income inequality? Most rich people arent just sitting on their ass doing nothing and have buckets of money delivered to them. They work hard and have their entire life. Just silly to think someone working at McDonalds should make the same as a person who built their own company over many years. Equal opportunity is great. Equal outcome is ridiculous. 

USA has neither.
The "american dream" of working hard, anyman can succede and be well off, is actually not true.
The US has lower social mobility than basically any european country.

If your born into a poor family in the US, chances are very high, you' ll be poor your entire life too.
Statistics show this.

No one is asking for "equal outcome", its ridiculous to even meantion that.
However, the poor can't carry the load and heavy burdon to the degree they currently are... its not healthy for the nation overall that so few sit on all the wealth.

Incom inequality is a huge issue in the US.
You can be poor and have worked much harder than any rich man, and still stay poor.
Some people have multiple jobs and are still struggleing.  Basically if your working like 14hours+ a day, and cant make ends meet, something is wrong with the system.

Also the inferstructure in the US has issues.
Clean drinkable water is actually a issue in large parts of america.
Pipes are old, rusty, in need of replacements, and theres just no money for it.

The solution is to tax the rich, and deal with such issues.

Also income equality has heavy ties to drug usage, crime ect.

"Hunger and fear are the only realities in dog life: an empty stomach makes a fierce dog."

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 07 November 2020

KLXVER said:
vivster said:

And they should be paying more, or what do you think those tax havens are for? They are hiding their cash to lower the taxes they have to actually pay. Income inequality has to come down somehow and it's obviously not going to trickle down.

Income inequality? Most rich people arent just sitting on their ass doing nothing and have buckets of money delivered to them. They work hard and have their entire life. Just silly to think someone working at McDonalds should make the same as a person who built their own company over many years. Equal opportunity is great. Equal outcome is ridiculous. 

They don't work 1000000 times harder than their employees. No one said anything about equal income, but at some point it becomes an issue. No one should have more than a billion in the bank, it's immoral and it's hoarding money that could be used to advance society.

You just cannot morally justify a single person holding billions while there are people in that same country literally starving while adding to those billions by working for that person. At least Jesus couldn't justify it. Good thing the GOP isn't Christian or anything.

The world isn't as simple as you want it to be. Work doesn't equal wealth and laziness doesn't equal poverty.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

JRPGfan said:
KLXVER said:

Income inequality? Most rich people arent just sitting on their ass doing nothing and have buckets of money delivered to them. They work hard and have their entire life. Just silly to think someone working at McDonalds should make the same as a person who built their own company over many years. Equal opportunity is great. Equal outcome is ridiculous. 

USA has neither.
The "american dream" of working hard, anyman can succede and be well off, is actually not true.
The US has lower social mobility than basically any european country.

If your born into a poor family in the US, chances are very high, you' ll be poor your entire life too.
Statistics show this.

No one is asking for "equal outcome", its ridiculous to even meantion that.
However, the poor can't carry the load and heavy burdon to the degree they currently are... its not healthy for the nation overall that so few sit on all the wealth.

Incom inequality is a huge issue in the US.
You can be poor and have worked much harder than any rich man, and still stay poor.
Some people have multiple jobs and are still struggleing.  Basically if your working like 14hours+ a day, and cant make ends meet, something is wrong with the system.

Also the inferstructure in the US has issues.
Clean drinkable water is actually a issue in large parts of america.
Pipes are old, rusty, in need of replacements, and theres just no money for it.

The solution is to tax the rich, and deal with such issues.

No, its a very short time solution in that case. It wont happen. Rich people arent just going to give away most of their money. They will fuck off and leave you with way less. Its a pipe dream and you need to come up with something better.  



Torillian said:
KLXVER said:

He is a liberal. I dont have Twitter, but you can just go there and confirm it I guess.

Oh he says he's a liberal? Well never mind then. 

It's Tim Pool, he's an idiot. 

From what I can tell of the AOC tweet she's asking that people's support of Trump's trying to destroy confidence in the vote so he can stay in power be recorded so that those people don't try to slink out of it later. Don't see anything about being "held accountable" other than that they shouldn't be able to delete the dumb shit they've said during this election. 

The only thing liberal about Tim Pool is that he's treating truth veeeerryy liberally...



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KLXVER said:
JRPGfan said:

USA has neither.
The "american dream" of working hard, anyman can succede and be well off, is actually not true.
The US has lower social mobility than basically any european country.

If your born into a poor family in the US, chances are very high, you' ll be poor your entire life too.
Statistics show this.

No one is asking for "equal outcome", its ridiculous to even meantion that.
However, the poor can't carry the load and heavy burdon to the degree they currently are... its not healthy for the nation overall that so few sit on all the wealth.

Incom inequality is a huge issue in the US.
You can be poor and have worked much harder than any rich man, and still stay poor.
Some people have multiple jobs and are still struggleing.  Basically if your working like 14hours+ a day, and cant make ends meet, something is wrong with the system.

Also the inferstructure in the US has issues.
Clean drinkable water is actually a issue in large parts of america.
Pipes are old, rusty, in need of replacements, and theres just no money for it.

The solution is to tax the rich, and deal with such issues.

No, its a very short time solution in that case. It wont happen. Rich people arent just going to give away most of their money. They will fuck off and leave you with way less. Its a pipe dream and you need to come up with something better.  

Trump paid 750$ of tax last year, right?
Guy has millions and millions, and lives life at large.

While some poor smuch works 14hours a day, barely makes a liveing, is taxed more than Trump was.
This person might be on the verge of starveing, but the goverment takes more form him, than it does someone like Trump.

How is that fair?
The rich need to pay their taxes, and it needs to be higher than the lowest wage workers, both in terms of amount, but also in %.
This is how a (fair) society works.... and most places around the world its like that.

If trump wants to move to some backwaters african country, where he doesnt have to pay as much in tax's as the US, he's free to do so.

(rich) People like trump, who cheat with taxes, are the reason the US doesnt have enough money to have such things as clean water everywhere.
Millions of americans, have brown/green water, come out of their taps when they open them. Some places the water they have is actually said to be "undrinkable", but its all they have, so they drink unsafe water, bathe in it, and die to health issues from it.  This is the cost, of the rich people cheating the system, and not paying taxes, theres downsides to it, for society (like not haveing money to replace bad pipes ect).

You know what they do have money for?

Bailouts for rich companies! and all of Trumps rich buddies, and tax cuts for the rich :)

How did they have money for this? but not clean water? well.... they took on debt, a IOU if you will... and just did it.
Meanwhile for the past 20years.... clean water has been and stays a issue in large parts of america.... sadly theres no money for anything to be done about it.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 07 November 2020

KLXVER said:
vivster said:

Not s ingle policy of trump helped the average voter. The only people better off right now are millionaires and billionaires and that is despite the lockdowns. Trump could've done more for people who are now struggling, but he didn't because all he ever cared about were his rich friends who got billions in bailouts and tax breaks while everyone else got a slap in the face.

So yeah, the sycophants are Republican politicians and influential rich people and nobody else. Nobody is making lists of voters, they already fucked themselves.

Yeah, cut the taxes of the rich and they actually pay their taxes. Tax them more and they will leave the state or find legal ways to pay way less. So no other option than to raise the taxes of everyone. The rich pay a huge amount of the taxes in the country. The top 1% pays like 37% of all taxes.

They already found legal ways to pay less for decades now. Remember when a billionaire (can't remember his name now) was lamenting 10 years ago that he was paying less taxes than his secretary who was living paycheck to paycheck? Or Trump's tax leak which showed him paying a measly $750? Tax cuts just make it even easier for them to pay practically nothing.

Also, skipping town and leaving the country doesn't help, there's a law that ensures that Americans have to pay taxes in the US, no matter where they live. So they'd have to adopt a new nationality and renounce to their American nationality first, and that's a lengthy process they only could do if they're not working anymore and thus just sitting on their hoard of money and not contributing to society or economy anyway.



JRPGfan said:
KLXVER said:

No, its a very short time solution in that case. It wont happen. Rich people arent just going to give away most of their money. They will fuck off and leave you with way less. Its a pipe dream and you need to come up with something better.  

Trump paid 750$ of tax last year, right?
Guy has millions and millions, and lives life at large.

While some poor smuch works 14hours a day, barely makes a liveing, is taxed more than Trump was.
This person might be on the verge of starveing, but the goverment takes more form him, than it does someone like Trump.

How is that fair?
The rich need to pay their taxes, and it needs to be higher than the lowest wage workers, both in terms of amount, but also in %.
This is how a (fair) society works.... and most places around the world its like that.

If trump wants to move to some backwaters african country, where he doesnt have to pay as much in tax's as the US, he's free to do so.

(rich) People like trump, who cheat with taxes, are the reason the US doesnt have enough money to have such things as clean water everywhere.
Millions of americans, have brown/green water, come out of their taps when they open them. Some places the water they have is actually said to be "undrinkable", but its all they have, so they drink unsafe water, bathe in it, and die to health issues from it.  This is the cost, of the rich people cheating the system, and not paying taxes, theres downsides to it, for society (like not haveing money to replace bad pipes ect).

You know what they do have money for?

Bailouts for rich companies! and all of Trumps rich buddies, and tax cuts for the rich :)

How did they have money for this? but not clean water? well.... they took on debt, a IOU if you will... and just did it.
Meanwhile for the past 20years.... clean water has been and stays a issue in large parts of america.... sadly theres no money for anything to be done about it.

People seem to change what Trump has based on their argument. When we point out that hes a rich, successful businessman, then we are wrong because hes a failed businessman with billions in debt. Now hes super rich and pays no taxes. Cant have it both ways. Also he said during the second debate he has paid millions in taxes and will release it soon. Not sure if he will, but we dont know for sure. 

But lets try it out. Lets do it in California. Lots of rich people and lots of very poor people. Especially actors who just want to help SO much. Then after 2 years, if there are more than 5 millionaires living in that state, then call it a success.



KLXVER said:
JRPGfan said:

Trump paid 750$ of tax last year, right?
Guy has millions and millions, and lives life at large.

While some poor smuch works 14hours a day, barely makes a liveing, is taxed more than Trump was.
This person might be on the verge of starveing, but the goverment takes more form him, than it does someone like Trump.

How is that fair?
The rich need to pay their taxes, and it needs to be higher than the lowest wage workers, both in terms of amount, but also in %.
This is how a (fair) society works.... and most places around the world its like that.

If trump wants to move to some backwaters african country, where he doesnt have to pay as much in tax's as the US, he's free to do so.

(rich) People like trump, who cheat with taxes, are the reason the US doesnt have enough money to have such things as clean water everywhere.
Millions of americans, have brown/green water, come out of their taps when they open them. Some places the water they have is actually said to be "undrinkable", but its all they have, so they drink unsafe water, bathe in it, and die to health issues from it.  This is the cost, of the rich people cheating the system, and not paying taxes, theres downsides to it, for society (like not haveing money to replace bad pipes ect).

You know what they do have money for?

Bailouts for rich companies! and all of Trumps rich buddies, and tax cuts for the rich :)

How did they have money for this? but not clean water? well.... they took on debt, a IOU if you will... and just did it.
Meanwhile for the past 20years.... clean water has been and stays a issue in large parts of america.... sadly theres no money for anything to be done about it.

People seem to change what Trump has based on their argument. When we point out that hes a rich, successful businessman, then we are wrong because hes a failed businessman with billions in debt. Now hes super rich and pays no taxes. Cant have it both ways. Also he said during the second debate he has paid millions in taxes and will release it soon. Not sure if he will, but we dont know for sure. 

But lets try it out. Lets do it in California. Lots of rich people and lots of very poor people. Especially actors who just want to help SO much. Then after 2 years, if there are more than 5 millionaires living in that state, then call it a success.

The fact that Donald Trump is both rich and a failure is one of the many problems in that country.

Trying out policy in just 1 state and then complaining that it failed is one of the oldest tricks of right wingers. Social security and income inequality is a national issue and can only be solved nationally. Same thing with healthcare and gun control. Those things only work when they are universal across all states.

I mean that's the whole point of it. EVERYONE has to chip in, not just the people who care. That's the only way it works. And that's why it works in every single developed country except the US.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

vivster said:
KLXVER said:

People seem to change what Trump has based on their argument. When we point out that hes a rich, successful businessman, then we are wrong because hes a failed businessman with billions in debt. Now hes super rich and pays no taxes. Cant have it both ways. Also he said during the second debate he has paid millions in taxes and will release it soon. Not sure if he will, but we dont know for sure. 

But lets try it out. Lets do it in California. Lots of rich people and lots of very poor people. Especially actors who just want to help SO much. Then after 2 years, if there are more than 5 millionaires living in that state, then call it a success.

The fact that Donald Trump is both rich and a failure is one of the many problems in that country.

Trying out policy in just 1 state and then complaining that it failed is one of the oldest tricks of right wingers. Social security and income inequality is a national issue and can only be solved nationally. Same thing with healthcare and gun control. Those things only work when they are universal across all states.

I mean that's the whole point of it. EVERYONE has to chip in, not just the people who care. That's the only way it works. And that's why it works in every single developed country except the US.

How is that even going to work at this point? I mean some of the richest and greediest people in the country are the ones that has to pass it into law. Not to mention convincing more than half the country of it. Its nice to think everyone wanting to share their wealth, but thats just not the reality. And the fact that you say it will fail in California makes it seem like you dont have much faith in it either.