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Forums - Sony Discussion - Why we cannot compare PS5 and Xbox series X directly, EDIT : add Resident Evil 3 remake and DOOM Eternal that run better on PS4 Pro as an example, also add EX- Crytek Developer and programer testimon

drkohler said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Here’s how the SSD will affect a vast majority of games: they’ll load in, for example, 5 seconds on PS5, and 8 or 9 seconds on XSX. Dat secret sauce 

It didn't take you very long to prove what Zoombael wrote. Fascinating.

If we assume that all non-first party developers are clueless twits, then you are right, of course. If that assumption turns out to be false, there is only one twit left.

I’ll bump in a few years when I’ve been proven right, the SSD in the PS5 has not lead to any revolution in gaming. 

Hell we don’t even know how the XVA is going to affect XSX games. Could result in similar game design 😆



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DonFerrari said:

The boost mode was designed to work 100% of the time and the cooling solution was made around it. TDP will be constant, the thermal will be the same indenpendent of where you are. The frequency will change depending of the load to not overshoot the TDP. As he said if 10% less drain is needed it would be achieved with a very small % drop on the frequency.

Also Cerny admitted that their solution to cooling on PS1-4 wasn't always the best solution because of their way to "guess" the worse case, this time they arbitrated it and designed around it, so no jet engine scenario should be expected (although I don't really care about the noise).

The Boost mode can't work 100% of the time, otherwise there isn't any point in having it, you might as well have static clocks like the Xbox Series X.

We can look to Renoir to see what will happen on the Smartshift front.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15624/amd-details-renoir-the-ryzen-mobile-4000-series-7nm-apu-uncovered/4

Essentially if the CPU+GPU+Memory controllers are pegged at 100%, the CPU, GPU clocks will be reduced from their maximum levels.
But if if either the CPU or GPU is being underutilized, it will send extra TDP to the component in demand and ramp up clockspeeds to their max.

So the 3.5Ghz CPU clock and 2.23Ghz GPU clock are best-case scenarios, performance can and may be allot lower.

DonFerrari said:

Ignoring all info Pema and CGI are discussing on the subject will only lead you to be more impressed when they start showing what this can do. It isn't out of the nothing that it was the most asked feature from devs, and why Jason was saying some devs were saying PS5 is the biggest revolution they saw gen over gen.

But yes call it secret sauce if it makes you happy.

Me and CGI are both happy and impressed with the hardware?



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

We can't compare directly because this time XBox has the better hardware.

If the situation was reversed then it would be fine to do it.

Sounds about right.



We can't compare directly because this time XBox has the better hardware.

If the situation was reversed then it would be fine to do it.

Sounds about right.



Pemalite said:
DonFerrari said:

The boost mode was designed to work 100% of the time and the cooling solution was made around it. TDP will be constant, the thermal will be the same indenpendent of where you are. The frequency will change depending of the load to not overshoot the TDP. As he said if 10% less drain is needed it would be achieved with a very small % drop on the frequency.

Also Cerny admitted that their solution to cooling on PS1-4 wasn't always the best solution because of their way to "guess" the worse case, this time they arbitrated it and designed around it, so no jet engine scenario should be expected (although I don't really care about the noise).

The Boost mode can't work 100% of the time, otherwise there isn't any point in having it, you might as well have static clocks like the Xbox Series X.

We can look to Renoir to see what will happen on the Smartshift front.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15624/amd-details-renoir-the-ryzen-mobile-4000-series-7nm-apu-uncovered/4

Essentially if the CPU+GPU+Memory controllers are pegged at 100%, the CPU, GPU clocks will be reduced from their maximum levels.
But if if either the CPU or GPU is being underutilized, it will send extra TDP to the component in demand and ramp up clockspeeds to their max.

So the 3.5Ghz CPU clock and 2.23Ghz GPU clock are best-case scenarios, performance can and may be allot lower.

DonFerrari said:

Ignoring all info Pema and CGI are discussing on the subject will only lead you to be more impressed when they start showing what this can do. It isn't out of the nothing that it was the most asked feature from devs, and why Jason was saying some devs were saying PS5 is the biggest revolution they saw gen over gen.

But yes call it secret sauce if it makes you happy.

Me and CGI are both happy and impressed with the hardware?

Mark Cerny and Digital Foundry explained it, it isn`t a temporary boost. It is the regular use of the GPU and CPU, either of them can be kept to the maximum frequency all the time, sure he don`t say both would be at the same time, and that is where the change in frequency comes for one going down (few %) for the other to go the maximum.

Not only both of you are satisfied but also expect shift on how games are made when leveraging the SSD advantages.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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LudicrousSpeed said:

I’ll bump in a few years when I’ve been proven right, the SSD in the PS5 has not lead to any revolution in gaming. 

Hell we don’t even know how the XVA is going to affect XSX games. Could result in similar game design 😆

My understanding is XVA is built with the same game design vision in mind. Sony went over the top with it. Maybe their 1st party studios do something revolutionizing with that extra SSD speed but I doubt it.



Hiku said:
DonFerrari said:

Well it is quite complex, the game would be like the whole map is a single one, a lot of techniques needed to achieve something that ambitious

https://www.polygon.com/2018/4/23/17263016/god-of-war-playstation-4-camera-single-shot

To me this wasn't a particularly interesting concept. It's better than having the camera cut in and out, but not to the point that I'd like the developers to have to spend significant time and effort problem solving on this when they could be doing something else. I barely ever though of the one-cut approach. Granted even if you don't think about it, it still affects you. But the main problem I think is that God of War's story and scenarios just generally weren't interesting enough for me to warrant this. It's a leap above the older game and step in the right direction, but still not even close imo. Except for the random banter between characters in between objectives. That was consistently well done.

Anyway, they won't have to worry about problem solving for this with PS5's SSD technique, so they might as well continue with this approach now.

I would say it is something you don`t directly notice but greatly improves your enjoyment of the game. Just like TLOU was so well made on the load time management with it loading what came next using the transitions that you barely noticed the loading the first time you are enjoying the game. Some stuff of the creativity and tricks may be lost with this new concept.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Hiku said:
DonFerrari said:

I would say it is something you don`t directly notice but greatly improves your enjoyment of the game. Just like TLOU was so well made on the load time management with it loading what came next using the transitions that you barely noticed the loading the first time you are enjoying the game. Some stuff of the creativity and tricks may be lost with this new concept.

I don't feel like it greatly improved it for me, but the risk with this approach is that you can paint yourself into a corner if you run into issues.
What I do think would greatly enhance my experience was for example more work on the UI (when you get a new skill, the game asks you if you want to equip it but didn't show what you had on before. Doesn't let you test it, only shows a demo video playing), better world building (there was plenty of lore, but very few characters you interact with), more focus on the writing (seems like it was presented a lot better than it was written.)

Improving these things don't pose any similar risks if they run into issues. And for me at least, I would have much preferred dev time went into some other things. The Chaos Blades for example were apparently added in almost last minute.

Those are more of design choices, like they could have done all you asked without changing the one shot or anything else really. They just either didn`t imagine or didn`t care to implement.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Can you imagine the next modern warfare on those systems? Its currently at +- 170gb
+ OS room sounds like maybe 3-4 games on the internal storage



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

OK guys another example is Resident Evil 3 Remake this games run slightly better resolution but worse frame rates on One X but run almost 60 fps on PS4 Pro with lower resolution the One X. Remember on paper both One X has 45 % advantage in terms FLOP ( plus One X has better memory setupand with UHD 4k). This is just shows in reality both machine has some thread off , some aspect can be run better some aspect can be run bad, they have plus and minus. Comparing PS5 and Series X will be even harder and imposible both even far closer than PS4 and Xbox One (41 %), and with both can produce native 4k and run VRS i believe both will run the same .