Forums - Gaming Discussion - Let's talk about Specs

You like Specs?

I love Specs! 16 40.00%
 
I kinda like Specs. 13 32.50%
 
Specs are for nerds! 2 5.00%
 
I don't care either way, ... 9 22.50%
 
Total:40
CGI-Quality said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
I expect specs won’t matter as much now as they did in 2013 since PS5’s aren’t as impressive.

Or they'll matter to others now that Xbox's are more impressive. 

They’re both impressive. The TFLOPS calculation gives the advantage to the XBSX, but the memory speed in the PS5 is insane. It will be interesting to see how both behave in real world situations. The PS5 seems to have been built with a focus on eliminating most if not any bottlenecks, while the XBSX goes for full brute force.

Time will tell which one is the more efficient approach.

But I’ll end by saying this one thing.

Nintendo may innovate when it comes to player inputs, but there’s certainly no denying that MS and Sony also innovate, but from a hardware approach.




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Don't matter. It has always been about the games. PS2 was weaker than both Gamecube and Xbox but was superior. Wii was the weakest and somehow sold the most, but 360 and PS3 cut it close due to good games. PS4 pro is weaker than XB1X, and the Switch easily outsold the XB1 despite being weaker.

In the end people care about games much more.



I don't care or understand much of it. I just want great games to play.



LudicrousSpeed said:
I expect specs won’t matter as much now as they did in 2013 since PS5’s aren’t as impressive.

Neither PS4 or Xbox One was impressive in 2013. PS5 and Xbox One look much greater in relative terms. PS5 and Xbox SX seem closer but not quite as impressive as 360 and PS5 for their time.



Bite my shiny metal Cockpit!

Cerebralbore101 said:
vivster said:
I need those specs so I can feel better for being part of the #masterrace. Can't wait to buy my new GPU for 1400€ which is gonna be 50% stronger than consoles and will last 3 years tops.

But what about $700 GPU that bumps your PC up to 30% stronger than consoles and lasts two years before being crushed on price to power by a new series of cards? 

Price/performance is not something we do here in #pcmasterrace.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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Specs are numbers, numbers are why we play games. Numbers going up is all what games are about :p

I'm glad we finally get improved loading / copying / patching. Start up should be faster again. Yet disk space and memory are limited. But I'm glad sound is getting some attention again. I was hopeful when KZ Shadowfall came out with MADDER audio processing, but then nothing. Back to standard samples and effects. HRTF sounds to me more like something for headphones / VR, but perhaps the ray tracing units for light can also be used for audio.



EricHiggin said:

Cerny mentioned that some SNY stuff ends up in RDNA period if AMD see's use in it elsewhere, and AMD has already said it will be using that tech for Laptops/PC's earlier this year.

Citation needed.

EricHiggin said:

I wonder if SmartShift actually came from SNY.

Nope. AMD invented it for it's notebook APU's. It's just better sharing of TDP between the CPU and GPU to drive up clocks... It's just a more refined technology to what was in Raven Ridge in 2018.

alexxonne said:

For example, to be able and run bc ps3 games, CPU must be at least 3.2 ghz. PS5 over delivered on that but...

This to me proves you don't understand hardware at all.

A 1.6Ghz processor can be faster than a 3.2Ghz processor.

Did you not learn anything when Intel released Netburst and AMD released Bulldozer? Frequency isn't everything, neither is bits, neither is flops.

alexxonne said:

The problem I see is GPU logical assets for it being nvidia in nature and not AMD. You can't freely create a 100% legacy interpreter without their support. 

False. nVidia and AMD build their GPU's to meet certain application programmable interfaces requirements, from there you use abstraction so you can retain compatibility without the need for interpretation.

You forget Microsoft is using the Original Xbox in it's backwards compatibility scheme... Guess what? That used an nVidia GPU.

alexxonne said:

The more teraflops the gpu has, the better performance and stability it can give for running games in a "ps3" emulated OS.

What are you even talking about?

alexxonne said:

Similarly this is the main reason og games weren't 100% supported (461/1000) in xbox 360, and less supported (41/1000) in xbox one/x.

No. No. No. That is not the reason at all.

Microsoft had to build individual profiles for each individual game, Microsoft then needed to get permission from publishers and rights holders in order to provide said profile in their emulator in order to enable backwards compatibility.

That is why Microsoft will never have 100% backwards compatibility for the Xbox 360 and Original Xbox on the Xbox One and Xbox Series X. It's impossible. Rights have expired.

alexxonne said:

So, even taking into account that 1 tflops from a ps5 may had 1.5-2 times more performance than 1 tflops from a ps4 architecture

Do you even know what a Teraflop is and how it relates to a games rendering? Please. Provide the answer.
But a tiny hint... A teraflop is a theoretical denominator, not a real world one.

A teraflop on a Playstation 1, Playstation 2, Playstation 3, Playstation 4, Playstation 5, Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One, Xbox Series X is the exact same god damn thing, they aren't different. The math does not just "change" because "reasons".

alexxonne said:

I assure you that if they would have a ps5 with 13tflops he would have talked laser focused for over 1 hour about the teraflops and 2 minutes about the audio.

Obviously. Cerny is trying to hype up the hardware because he is trying to support the business he works for.
But what is your point anyway?

alexxonne said:

If they intend to sell the ps5 at $500 or over it, then I'm hesitant to believe these will be the final specs nor that backwards compatibility is for ps4 games only. Such strategy doesn't make sense. Specially when he Cerny talked more time about the audio solution than the GPU solution.

It's fishy.

I do not support any conspiracy theories in any shape or form.
Your feelings that it's "fishy" is entirely redundant.

alexxonne said:

Why not give price then, if all is set in stone? Not much can be done, so much closer to launch window.

Many commodity components like NAND and RAM in the next-gen consoles are influenced by market-based pressures of supply/demand. - Hence why Microsoft and Sony aren't revealing prices just yet, especially with a certain virus causing significant uncertainty on those fronts.

Obviously Microsoft and Sony have secured contracts for other components with predictable costs like the SoC.

alexxonne said:

I'm a sony guy, all my life has been one. Probably im already over 100 ps4 games by now. I skipped xbox one this generation.  And surely I will buy ps5 day one.

I dislike/like all consoles equally. I am a PC gamer primarily.

Hynad said:

They’re both impressive. The TFLOPS calculation gives the advantage to the XBSX, but the memory speed in the PS5 is insane. It will be interesting to see how both behave in real world situations. The PS5 seems to have been built with a focus on eliminating most if not any bottlenecks, while the XBSX goes for full brute force.

Time will tell which one is the more efficient approach.

But I’ll end by saying this one thing.

Nintendo may innovate when it comes to player inputs, but there’s certainly no denying that MS and Sony also innovate, but from a hardware approach.

The Xbox Series X has the potential CPU advantage (Waiting on more details), the GPU compute advantage (Need details like integer/ray tracing information), the memory bandwidth advantage.

Where it does come up short is the Solid State Drive. - If visual fidelity is your primary motivator to decide on a purchase, there is a clear winner already no doubt, we just don't know by how much in the real world.









--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Let's talk about specs, bay-bee
Let's talk about you and me
Let's talk about all the good things
And the bad things that may-bee
Let's talk about specs



So, the two machines will be so similar in performance that the differences will be negligible to anyone else but the nerdiest of tech-heads. It's a power up all around and it's good all around.
Where does that leave us? With the games, of course. Third party stuff is a given for both platforms, so once again the exclusives will come into focus. Then again, even those have a limited reach. Some people are so invested in one ecosystem that they will stick with it and that's that. For me, Xbox would have to pull some gigantic stunts on the exclusives front to rip me out of my Sony bubble that has been my home since the nineties. But who knows?
Let's just all enjoy this new power, or rather the new, amazing games that it will facilitate.



Pemalite said: 

This to me proves you don't understand hardware at all.

A 1.6Ghz processor can be faster than a 3.2Ghz processor.

Did you not learn anything when Intel released Netburst and AMD released Bulldozer? Frequency isn't everything, neither is bits, neither is flops.

You actually know nothing.

You say you are a pc gamer, yet still don't understand lots of things.

Legacy software is run by using the new routines based on cycles(mhz) to match the older hardware. When the legacy software is incompatible or unstable it just doesn't work. It is the sole reason modern CPUs can be 10 times more powerful yet they run old software like crap. You need to equalize processing cycles to achieve true legacy interpretation. And not just the cycles, the instructions sets and features, all of them interpreted for a true legacy solution. Having multi-core and multi-threads processing helps, but is has been the sole reason for the difficulties in building an emulation profiles to run 360 games in xbox one. They needed to alter game routines in order to run them on a lesser cycle based processor, and test them on a one by one basis, it is a very time consuming, effort. As a PC gamer you should know that, VERY WELL.

You don't understand hardware my friend.

Gpu architecture design is dependent on patents, rights and other things. Microsoft needed a solution to survive their 2nd generation hardware because they failed with the OG xbox, and then designed the 360 to emulate Xbox games by brute force performance and commands interpretations, not legacy. In ATI's favor (now AMD if you didn't know) xbox og gpu was a just a modified geforce 3 card. Microsoft NT based OS for the OG xbox essentially converted all of the games for it into simple directX based routines (hence the X-box dumbass). ATI managed to assimilate lots of the routines, but not all of them. It is the same problems and issues when using and building emulators. You use a different and superior CPU to emulate a lesser CPU, but since processing cycles dominate half of the performance issues you need a faster (in cycles) processor and a better one (in architecture).  Just try comparing and airplane vs cargo ship.  A cargo ship has more capacity while the airplane has less, but one carries it's cargo faster. Old games were built with those differences in mind. Another issue is excessive performance , just take the ps2 for example. It doesn't like to read games from a hard drive, because it is just too fast compared to the optical drive. Lots of PS2 games were built using the native ps2 cd drive reading speed, so when you load games using a hard drive, most of them crash if you don't toggle the options to cap the transfer rate. Try reading about emulation, and backwards compatibility. Is just common sense.

Publisher rights for backwards compatibility is an issue from this generation, not older ones. This makes you a kid, by not knowing that. Not having your game running on the newer console back then (~2000-2008) was seen a failure for not reaching the entire gaming market, so most publishers were very supportive and some were forced (business wise) to help Sony and Microsoft, by having their games running in BC mode. PS3 sales failure at the beginning of the last generation (2006-2008) forced them to abandon BC and old game sales collapsed somehow, and the monetization scheme for BC changed into the "buy again" model this generation, mostly in Sony's side, while Microsoft absorbed their implementation. Essentially you buy the same game you have, but with a custom made profile to run in the newer console. Other options as porting and remastering were used. Being the latter the better approach for that kind compatibility.

For true backwards compatibility you need either a previous generation console CPU/GPU chip embedded along side the new console architecture or a legacy approach using a software interpreter, that can translate command by command. An interpreters is what was used for ps1 BC in the PS2 and PS3. The code is already built no need to re-invent the wheel. The same is for the PS2 up to an extent. But PS3 is massive and complicated system that needs lots of brute force processing. BC compatibility could have been announced for ps1/ps2 games without any issues, even the ps4 have a built in ps2 emulator that they use for the ps2 classics, and a game by game basis.

For a 4K gaming machine it will work great, but not for what we hoped for. This is almost a Slim ps5 solution not a robust one console. And until they finally launch the console, i will be hesitant about it because it simply doesn't make any sense. Sony built the PS5 for a 399 price point. Whether they lose some money or not by launch is another thing. But that is the reality of it. For a true PS4 successor Sony needed a machine in the same range or over Xbox SX.  I hate to see resources and money spent over an audio chip that no matter how great can be, it wil not change a bit how games are played. Audio immersion is so much diluted in gaming and diversified, that by the time PS5 arrives a gunshot, a punch, a crash, a scream will sound the same as in the xbox Sx, due to the use of the same crappy TV speakers everyone uses. 4K Gaming is about 4K not audio. That was a misfire from Cerny and Love the man but, hes out of his zone already.

Cerny was the underdog and lost, that was my point. He needed to counter act Microsoft approach and recent news of the new generation console but by simply stating teraflops aren't equal and not being relevant just undermined his own credibility. Is the same failed PS4 pro tactic as when he tried to prove that checkerboard rendering was in equal quality as native 4k rendering.

And as a PC gamer you should know very well that a teraflops is a theoretical performance measurement of Fp16/32 integers based on an specific hardware architecture, and will never be the same is given architecture changes. How THE HELL YOU DON'T KNOW THIS.? You need to study and fast.

True teraflops don't mean a bit if hardware architecture is different, but both console already announced they will use the same RDNA 2 architecture, just different configurations (CU's and clock). Any other difference would be less tangible.

Don' t get me wrong I LOVE Sony, but since the PS4 Pro, I'm hesitant to buy anything because of the approach Sony is using since then. But loving a brand involves criticism and not blindness.

Period.

I recommend you to read/watch about what is

- Legacy software

- Emulation / Interpreters

- Fp16/32 integers calculation and benchmarking

- Backwards compatibility PS1/PS2/OG XBOX

- History of Game Consoles

- PC hardware (CPU, GPU, Memory)

you get it.

**As a side note...I don't know why Sony (Microsoft too) doesn't just let people decide what content they want. They can use their generic emulators(ps2/ps1) with the respective compatibles games. An option for developers is to charge a premium for advanced solutions like internal resolution scaling or a higher resolution texture packs. There are options. Crowdfunding a title so it can be compatible or establishing funding goals to achieve compatibility options. There are lots of ideas and ways that can benefit users and developers alike. Imagine if you had the first Gran Turismo for PSX, with the options to be internally rendered at 4k with 4k textures, texture filters and AA options, all of it for just $1.99/2.99. If you don't pay then you run the game exactly as the ps1 the vanilla version. These features normally are just options in the emulation profile and it doesn't involve lots of money or time. Lets say 100,000 people buy the upgraded option, surely it will pay for the efforts and revitalizes monetization of old games versus full remasters. Leaving the user that bough the upgrade to tun off/on the individual features at will and decide what kind of experience they want. Maybe they can offer a backward compatibility option at a price, if you own the game pay 3.99, full game 9.99. Take for example Code Veronica for PS4, is just an emulated ps2 game, with some advanced options turned on. I own the game for ps2, still i had to buy it (2.99 if i remember well). OK. Why not offer me for free or at a very low price the vanilla version with the low resolution and assets as the original, and/or offer me as a side offer the advanced options for an additional price. That is pro consumer, you give power and options to the user, and with it additional income to the developers for those games not currently available.**

Last edited by alexxonne - on 21 March 2020