Forums - Gaming Discussion - Difficulty vs Accessibility: A responsibility for the developers, not for the players.

DonFerrari said:

It is basically "don't ask for options or changes in the game I like because that will ruin my fun since if there is an easier option I'll be forced to play it". Makes 0 sense.

Basically yeah. Like throwing the toy out of the pram if their means of gaming are not met or held onto.

Alcyon said:

I said "IN SOME GAMES" not "FORCING ME". Learn to read, please.

And, for the millionth time, when I start a game, I don't have a clue if hard is "more HP but still easy" or "your tears will be made of blood". So, yes, it affects me.

And we have two spammers who are spamming the same debunked lines over and over. I understand why some communities are toxic toward people like you, so "git gud" would probably be a decent answer after so much spam.

Except you aren't being forced into easy mode, even in "some" games. Yes I can read, thank you very much. 

Well then you need to look up specifically on what a dev is changing up with said difficulty. Most games just ramp up an enemy's HP/DMG, and in some cases they lower your dmg/you take more damage easily. I wouldn't even go anywhere far to dare suggest Souls AI is the core pinnacle of intelligent AI, so yes, it'll easily go with "they have more HP/do more DMG", instead of "they are just godly smart", because we quite frankly haven't seen AI like that for donkey's years. 

And we have 3 spammers spamming the same "no choice" arguments over and over again, so I see no difference there. 

And I understand why the Souls community is seen as elitist, and would you look at that, trying to validate the "git gud scrub" mentality, like an insulting jab, how expected of you, bravo. You're much older than me, yet resort to a typical petty jab?, I expected more from someone as old as you, but I guess age doesn't change the mentality of the weak minded. 

Last edited by Chazore - on 28 February 2020

               

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Git gud.

You are the type of guys who are coming to the forum "this is too hard" and if we give you advices, you don't listen and spam "this is too hard". So, again:

User was banned for this post, among others - cycycychris

Last edited by cycycychris - on 28 February 2020

Chazore said:
Nautilus said:

I only brought EGS as an example of your hypocrisy towards the "options" argument. They are bringing options to the table, whether those "accusations" of being anti-customer are true or not, and yet you deny it being good to the PC space because of simply don't like them, even with the Store being a success story(with its discounts, free games and whatnot). Nothing more, but I'll drop :)

And yeah, it's an insult, whether the terminology is correct or not.People may decide to not buy the games due to the difficulty, but I'm not stopping them from going in.Its like a night club with an etiquette code.If you want in, you have to come dressed a certain way.Its private property, so the owner can do whatever he wants.Same for games: The devs can do whatever they want with their games, including difficulty, and you are the one who decides if you want to get in or not.Im not stopping you from doing anything, nor any company would do that, it just dosen't make any consumer sense.It does however, make sense making purely hard games, because there is a big market out there for it, as proved ad nauseum in the thread already.

And yet again, you are wrong.If the majority decided what everyone would do(in the videogame industry), we wouldn't have had so many hard games by this point.Yet here we are, growing by the day.So I ask you one more time:Where is your proof that you are the majority, and that the majority even cares that there are a few hard games that they are not good enough to play?Show me the facts, while i stay here seeing the sales numbers for most hard games just keep rising.That actually makes me curious about how much Sekiro has sold so far.Last time was 4 millions.Wonder if it's at 6 millions already?

Oh and I din't even need to bring that up, but your argument is easily countered.First because of facts backing it up.Does your billions all play videogames, let alone even care about the fact that there are 10 games released every year, out of 300, that they can't play? But most importantly: Since you cant back up these "There are billions of us!", I can say the same for any argument: - Racing games only sell up to 8 millions.That's a waste of money, since Billions of people aren't playing that.There should be an option to turn it into a action adventure game! - You know where I'm going with this.

Just because something is standard, it means that every game should come with it!Color me surprised!It makes me wonder now why sometimes devs take a chance with something new, if it isn't standard... Maybe because the game might be... more fun that way?!?!?

...

...

Nah, the devs must be wrong.I'm sure of it.

And its funny, society wants options on everything?That's also new for me.Guess I must have been hallucinating when I saw places/stores that only catered to a certain niche of the society.I mean, I MUST have been hallucinating when i saw a story that only sold natural food, or a restaurant that specialized on italian food and nothing more, or even bars that catered more to homosexuals to, I don't know, make them feel more comfortable in a place they know they will feel safe.Yeah, I was seeing things, because as you have shown me right now, those things don't exist.All supermarkets sell everything, because options right?And all restaurants also prepare anything, because options right?People dont... *gasp*... go to different places because of different needs, do they?...

...

...

Nah, I must be wrong.I'm sure of it.

About the quote: Dude, do I really need to explain it?It's a metaphor for usually things go south(I mean it backfires, if you didn't know) when people do something with good intentions but without caring about the reality of things.It means harming society and/or the place where you live without intention, thinking that what you had done was right but in actually was wrong.It has nothing to do with religion.Can't believe I had to explain it.

Except it's not HYPOCRISY!. You're just finding an excuse to call someone a nonce out of your own personal view on what you think is stupid, which itself is showing the REAL hypocrisy here. Me not liking to use a stupid, objectively shit fucking store is somehow stupid, because I chose not to want to use it?. Are you being cereal right now, you're giving me no option but to use EGS or I'm the "stupid one"?. Really?, we're really going the ultimatum route with this one?.

EGS aren't bringing options, they are literally taking options away, by making sure the game isn't being sold on OTHER storefronts. I don't think you actually truly understand what it is like to allow for choices here, hence why I'll continue seeing you as a gatekeeper (now an advocate for gatekeeping games being sold anywhere else).

The dictionary doesn't actually define nor describe it as one, so at the end of the day, the sun shines, grass grows, birds fly, and Gatekepper is exactly what it is, and it is not documented as an insult. You just choose to see it that way, because of what it describes you doing, which is a negative thing. You not stopping them from buying games is an impossibility already, it's you trying to stop people from wanting options within said games, because you don't want options in them, as you think it will destroy the game, so you want to protect it above all else. I've been watching this thread, on how you've been trying to shoot down every other argument or point in wanting options for difficulty modes, I'm not stupid to this. Also no, Souls is not a Nightclub, and that makes for a poor example. 

Also, the market isn't nearly as big as you're making it out to be.

And yet again I am not, because you're trying to base a few million, while trying to assume it's insanely massive, when compared to other venues and franchises, it really isn't. The proof is all around you mate, in terms of games that allow for varying options of difficulty, storytelling that isn't left completely ambiguous, t hat isn't crushingly difficult, those games greatly outweigh those that are the latter. It's funny how you're asking me to tally up billions of people, when really that's on you for claiming you're not a minority. It's your job to prove you aren't, and sales numbers aren't telling the entire story either. 

Except it isn't, but that's how you keep acting towards every other poster that makes an argument or a comment you extremely disagree with. Yes actually, these "billions" are an amalgamation of all the platforms put together THAT PLAY GAMES. What, you think PC gamers are a small minority, as well as mobile gamers now?. You know damn well there are so many more mobile gamers out there than console already. You say the same for any argument, because you're literally only basing your entire argument solely on "game sales", but even then those games sales are so damn tiny compared to other games out there to begin with, but you'll ignore them for unexplained reasons, and ask me to tally up individual users, but that isn't a sales data grab now is it?. 

Well yes actually, when something is the standard, people tend to uphold and follow to that standard, that's why it's called the "default standard", because that's exactly what it is. It's the norm for games to include the options to change the difficulty settings, and it has been for decades. Going with only one setting is counted as something "new" these days?, wow, what's next, only one weapon throughout an entire game?, what fresh hot takes!.

Fun is subjective at the end of the day, just going to nip that entirely in the bud.

Yikes, seems like I hit a nerve.That's good I suppose, feels like people are really invested in the discussion.

You can feel the hypocrisy when you read and I quote:"Me not liking to use a stupid, objectively shit fucking store" when there is nothing objective about it, since every opinion about something(without hard data) is subjective, and well there are alot of people that like it.Why people like it?Because well, they are selling games to them.Because well, they are still not only open but doubling down on their strategy which seems to be working.And gamers in the whole world are getting free games out of it.Competition is great.And you know what competition gives to society?Options.So I guess that Epic Store is great, since you said that options are never bad? Guess we agree on something.

It may not be documented as such, but Im sure as hell that you are not using the word here to mean "Darling, I love you" either. After all, words change meaning depending on how people use them, since its humanity that give words meaning.Much like mediocre: It actually means that it's in the middle/that the product is just OK, but many use it to describe sumething subpar.So let's agree that its not positive in this context, shall we?

Also yes, just like a Nightclub, a game IP is a property owned by the developer/publisher, and not the gamers.Meaning they can do whatever the hell they want with it, even if it ends up being a big bad taste joke.So your counter is kind of weak to be honest.

And yes, I don't want multiple difficulties in hard games.I... thought I made that clear in the very first post.But I'm not alone, as sales proves that.That's EXACTLY the point I'm trying to make lol.Thanks for reiterating that.For whatever other counter you have, I probably already answered through the thread, so feel free to go back.

Now for the next part: Yeah I don't think that dozens of millions can be considered a minority.Why?Because there are not two "teams" to this conversation:The ones that want it hard and the ones that want it easy.There is a third: The ones that don't care one bit either way.Who are they?Simple: they are the ones that boot up a game and dosen't go " Ah shit, there are no multiple difficulties?I'm out".They are the ones that boot up the game, press X on New Game and donsen't even think about that suppossed "option" that was meant to be there, according to you.And lol, I presented the evidence and you refused it.It's on you the onus you presenting evidence to prove otherwise.Unless you...*gasp*.... don't have any!

But let's humor you and say we are in the "minority": So what?Should we be ignored, or worse, punished for having a different opinion?Much like your opinion is either in the minority about Epic Store(since it's doing well), or simply irrelevant because they are doing just fine?Did Dark Souls hurt someone feelings when they couldn't beat it?Or worse, it hurt your own personal life because it was too hard?What I mean is: why should your opinion or anyone opinion have more weight over the decision of the owner of an IP?Unless you proclaim to be God, if so I have to apologize.

I'll repeat once again, because it seems it went unnoticed: "

Just because something is standard, it means that every game should come with it!Color me surprised!It makes me wonder now why sometimes devs take a chance with something new, if it isn't standard... Maybe because the game might be... more fun that way?!?!?

...

...

Nah, the devs must be wrong.I'm sure of it."

And yeah, fun is subjective.As the notion of having more stuff or things to do or mess with a game could also be fun.Because you know, the option of having or not them.Unless the option of not having an option is not an option.

Heh, liked that phrase.I'm a genius, gotta be.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Nautilus said:

Yikes, seems like I hit a nerve.That's good I suppose, feels like people are really invested in the discussion.

You can feel the hypocrisy when you read and I quote:"Me not liking to use a stupid, objectively shit fucking store" when there is nothing objective about it, since every opinion about something(without hard data) is subjective, and well there are alot of people that like it.Why people like it?Because well, they are selling games to them.Because well, they are still not only open but doubling down on their strategy which seems to be working.And gamers in the whole world are getting free games out of it.Competition is great.And you know what competition gives to society?Options.So I guess that Epic Store is great, since you said that options are never bad? Guess we agree on something.

Sounds like you wanted to get people riled up, but I guess that was the initial idea with this sort of thread. I'm not exactly invested in the idea, but I wanted to point out how you decided to throw in a personal issue, and decided to well, make it personal, when it really has nothing to do with the thread subject at all.

See now I can tell that rather than tackling the subject itself, you've decided to go on a personal jab tirade, because I happen to side with those who actually want choices, rather than having them taken away, so really there is no further point in talking to you, because you've now got the mindset of "he's stupid, so I'm going to call him hypocritical and label him as such until he adheres to my line of thought". 

I'm not really invested enough to bother talking about the other points, because they 1. repeat themselves, and 2. End up in little jabs and quips, not really worth addressing. 

IF you'd actually like to stick with the subject of difficulty modes and choices in them, then I'd suggest sticking to them, instead of trying to "dig up" something on people you disagree with, so you can stuff it in their face, while telling them to jog on. 

@Bold, ahh, just like Alcyon in trying to twist something into making it sound like I agree with you, when I really don't, nice... 

You know exactly where I stand on that subject, and no, it's not a part of this thread, so any further discussion on EGS within a thread that isn't about it, well I know which button to hit.



               

Chazore said:
Nautilus said:

Yikes, seems like I hit a nerve.That's good I suppose, feels like people are really invested in the discussion.

You can feel the hypocrisy when you read and I quote:"Me not liking to use a stupid, objectively shit fucking store" when there is nothing objective about it, since every opinion about something(without hard data) is subjective, and well there are alot of people that like it.Why people like it?Because well, they are selling games to them.Because well, they are still not only open but doubling down on their strategy which seems to be working.And gamers in the whole world are getting free games out of it.Competition is great.And you know what competition gives to society?Options.So I guess that Epic Store is great, since you said that options are never bad? Guess we agree on something.

Sounds like you wanted to get people riled up, but I guess that was the initial idea with this sort of thread. I'm not exactly invested in the idea, but I wanted to point out how you decided to throw in a personal issue, and decided to well, make it personal, when it really has nothing to do with the thread subject at all.

See now I can tell that rather than tackling the subject itself, you've decided to go on a personal jab tirade, because I happen to side with those who actually want choices, rather than having them taken away, so really there is no further point in talking to you, because you've now got the mindset of "he's stupid, so I'm going to call him hypocritical and label him as such until he adheres to my line of thought". 

I'm not really invested enough to bother talking about the other points, because they 1. repeat themselves, and 2. End up in little jabs and quips, not really worth addressing. 

IF you'd actually like to stick with the subject of difficulty modes and choices in them, then I'd suggest sticking to them, instead of trying to "dig up" something on people you disagree with, so you can stuff it in their face, while telling them to jog on. 

@Bold, ahh, just like Alcyon in trying to twist something into making it sound like I agree with you, when I really don't, nice... 

You know exactly where I stand on that subject, and no, it's not a part of this thread, so any further discussion on EGS within a thread that isn't about it, well I know which button to hit.

Git gud.

User was banned for this post, among others - cycycychris

Last edited by cycycychris - on 28 February 2020

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Chazore said:
Nautilus said:

Yikes, seems like I hit a nerve.That's good I suppose, feels like people are really invested in the discussion.

You can feel the hypocrisy when you read and I quote:"Me not liking to use a stupid, objectively shit fucking store" when there is nothing objective about it, since every opinion about something(without hard data) is subjective, and well there are alot of people that like it.Why people like it?Because well, they are selling games to them.Because well, they are still not only open but doubling down on their strategy which seems to be working.And gamers in the whole world are getting free games out of it.Competition is great.And you know what competition gives to society?Options.So I guess that Epic Store is great, since you said that options are never bad? Guess we agree on something.

Sounds like you wanted to get people riled up, but I guess that was the initial idea with this sort of thread. I'm not exactly invested in the idea, but I wanted to point out how you decided to throw in a personal issue, and decided to well, make it personal, when it really has nothing to do with the thread subject at all.

See now I can tell that rather than tackling the subject itself, you've decided to go on a personal jab tirade, because I happen to side with those who actually want choices, rather than having them taken away, so really there is no further point in talking to you, because you've now got the mindset of "he's stupid, so I'm going to call him hypocritical and label him as such until he adheres to my line of thought". 

I'm not really invested enough to bother talking about the other points, because they 1. repeat themselves, and 2. End up in little jabs and quips, not really worth addressing. 

IF you'd actually like to stick with the subject of difficulty modes and choices in them, then I'd suggest sticking to them, instead of trying to "dig up" something on people you disagree with, so you can stuff it in their face, while telling them to jog on. 

@Bold, ahh, just like Alcyon in trying to twist something into making it sound like I agree with you, when I really don't, nice... 

You know exactly where I stand on that subject, and no, it's not a part of this thread, so any further discussion on EGS within a thread that isn't about it, well I know which button to hit.

You know that I didn't, and I brought the Epic Store discussion because I knew you were against it, in an attempt to prove the point that having more options in not always better(and thus pointing out the hypocrisy of "options are always good as long as I like those options") because, whether we like it or not, Epic brings an alternative to Steam.

But instead you decided to not answer to any of my questions, but most importantly, you haven't brought any new evidence to the table and mostly just insulted me by saying I am an elitist(thus kind of toxic), gatekeeper as if I don't like people playing my games, etc.Talk about hypocrisy again, right?

Either way, I'm open to more discussion if you like and hopefully the mods don't lock this thread due to the toxicity some users brought to here.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

I loved the use of genius...
How come someone not liking to buy in EGS (not demanding it to close though) and explaining that is because of bad consumer practices and locking down content to a store on a free environment (PC) - basically being against tacking out options - would be the similar to "don't include options to the game even if they don't affect me because that would bring people to the game that shouldn't be allowed"?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Nautilus said:

Either way, I'm open to more discussion if you like and hopefully the mods don't lock this thread due to the toxicity some users brought to here.

Either way I've filed two reports. This discussion has turned god awfully sour, and I hope it and future Souls related difficulty threads be locked (because they always end up turning sour one way or another). 

I'm not willing to discuss anything anymore with someone who seeks to rile someone up from the get-go, it shows a lack of purity to it and more of ill intent. 

Edit: The "38"yr old man has actually proven my point on that community being toxic. Thank you for validating my dislike for the Souls community. 

Last edited by Chazore - on 28 February 2020

               

DonFerrari said:
I loved the use of genius...
How come someone not liking to buy in EGS (not demanding it to close though) and explaining that is because of bad consumer practices and locking down content to a store on a free environment (PC) - basically being against tacking out options - would be the similar to "don't include options to the game even if they don't affect me because that would bring people to the game that shouldn't be allowed"?

Spamming ad nauseam "iT dOeSn'T aFfEcT yOu" doesn't make it true.

I almost forgot:

User was banned for this post, among others - cycycychris

Last edited by cycycychris - on 28 February 2020

Chazore said:
Nautilus said:

Either way, I'm open to more discussion if you like and hopefully the mods don't lock this thread due to the toxicity some users brought to here.

Either way I've filed two reports. This discussion has turned god awfully sour, and I hope it and future Souls related difficulty threads be locked (because they always end up turning sour one way or another). 

I'm not willing to discuss anything anymore with someone who seeks to rile someone up from the get-go, it shows a lack of purity to it and more of ill intent. 

"People don't agree with me so I filled a report to lock the thread. This isn't a discussion if people don't agree with me obviously".