Hiku said:
I didn't say anything about moral high ground to you. Though if the subject came up, I would have said I think it's mainly about selfish idiots vs everyone else.
But what I'm asking you is under which scenario would the hospitals end up without power?
If power plants are essential, and they are, then how would that situation come to pass?
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No I don't believe you did, but that's where you joined into the conversation. You keep asking questions, some of which were already clearly answered earlier in this conversation, and some that aren't relevant as it doesn't seem that you've gone through the prior conversation to understand it.
Without prior context and history, the present and future are much harder to understand and make decisions for.
If the grid goes down and back up gens have an issue, the hospital would only have partial, emergency power for a fairly short period of time.
Hiku said:
If someone temporarily lifts their mask, then at least they've worn a mask. There's no reason not to when applicable.
If your job is to eat as many hotdogs as possible in 30 seconds, you can still wear a mask for the rest of the day while you're not eating.
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During those 30 seconds, you couldn't possibly have spread or contracted the illness? Was lifting the mask worth it for some hot dogs if you pay the ultimate price, or someone else pays it because of you? If every last life matters equally, you couldn't make that decision, because you would be putting yourself above others for what some would say was an unworthy reason. What about if it's not even covid, but the flu, and someone else dies from it? Many people die from the flu, and they matter equally as well, so should everyone always be wearing masks?
Hiku said:
Because of something called sirens.
When sirens come on, traffic moves out of the way. That's reasonable enough. Just like keeping a 6 feet distance is reasonable enough, because 20 feet would be a lot more problematic to enforce.
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But if you're deemed essential and at times are dealing with a life threatening emergency, then why doesn't the electrical profession have specific lights or sirens like for fire and paramedic? Why are we supposed to deal with traffic like everyone else if we are of such importance?
Hiku said:
No non-automated service would function if no one showed up for work. But even if every medical worker refused to go to work, hospitals would still be considered essential. And we would try to solve their working situation.
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Wouldn't you then agree, that people, morally choosing to do good things like remaining at their essential job at a hospital, would be tied to where they land on a morality scale? If a bunch of them chose to bail during covid 19, wouldn't you assume at least some weren't all that moral?
Hiku said:
If that leader doesn't inform the public about the shortage, or understands the difference between buying up stock vs wearing (I can still wear masks I have purchased prior to the shortage), then they're not qualified. And don't make up more unbelievable James Bond scenarios about how that leader's daughter would be dropped into a shark tank if he explains the shortage to the public.
If someone refuses to wear a mask, they should just come out and say why they don't want to.
So far I've heard a grand total of 0 good reasons. Including "I have a mysterious magical medical condition that I don't want to disclose", and "I can't breathe", when N95 masks are designed to not inhibit your oxygen intake.
It's mainly selfish idiots making up any excuse they can think of to not go through a slight inconvenience. They will even get into gun fights and die over it.
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So another unqualified 'professional' leader then? I keep hearing about all these leaders in many sectors who have all the answers and should be given moral authority and followed, but they all seem to be screwing up left, right, and center. You'd almost think this might make the general public a bit skeptical and have them start thinking for themselves and making their own decisions. When those leaders tell you 'it's for the best of everyone' and that ends up not being the case, why should people be expected to follow what they purpose? Especially when some of them come right out and admit they lied for 'legitimate' reasons, secretive reasons that were for the 'good of everyone'..
Many things are designed for a purpose, and fail to meet every need of that purpose. The amount of times I've seen something that was designed a certain way by an engineer, that wasn't going to work, that had to be redesigned by myself on site, modified slightly to meet code and standards then signed off by the engineer, happened way, way, too often. Sometimes the engineer would literally take exactly what I purposed and would make new construction prints identical to them. No changes at all. Everything I 'designed', still works as intended today, as far as I know, and no, I have no engineering schooling, just what I've learned over the years. Engineer's aren't perfect either, like the rest of all the 'professionals', including myself.
That's a pretty messed up scenario. Not sure what that guy's deal was, but he clearly has issue's way beyond covid and masking up.
Hiku said:
Like what, slipping on a banana peel?
If people have access to health care like in every humane developed nation, and the government paid people for the duration they stay at home, then what deaths does it lead to?
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https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/media-spotlight/202006/are-we-facing-post-covid-19-suicide-epidemic
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/04/mental-health-coronavirus/
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/06/10/the-life-and-death-covid-19-curve-no-one-is-talking-about.html
"The suicides of two New York health-care workers highlight the risks, especially to those combating the pandemic. Lorna Breen, a top New York emergency room doctor, had spent weeks contending with coronavirus patients flooding her hospital and sometimes dying before they could be removed from ambulances. She had no history of mental illness, her relatives have said in interviews, but struggled increasingly with the emotional weight of the outbreak before she died. Days later, reports emerged that a Bronx emergency medical technician also killed himself."
Hiku said:
Not when we're talking about saving many many many many more lives, no.
As we can see in USA, it is not reasonable to leave this choice in the hands of individuals. Because too many people prioritize not going through a slight inconvenience even when the stakes are this incredibly massive. And for this to be effective, we need as many people as possible to do their part.
100 years later, and we are dumber than ever.
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Until they're told that wasn't really that necessary, or wasn't near enough and was all for little to nothing. Wouldn't be the first time unfortunately.
1:15 - 8:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBlyh96yL7Q
Can anyone ever be too dumb? Can anyone ever be too safe?
Pemalite said:
Don't try and twist the narrative to fit into your own agenda.
It's not about me, it's most certainly not about even you... It's about society as a whole. - As in, collectively.
Yes I am an essential worker, I was essential before the lockdowns, during and after.
But if the situation was different and I wasn't an essential worker, I would still support closing the economy to save lives, I have empathy for other people and a functioning society as a whole.
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I could say the same.
What is a collective made up of? I don't believe I questioned how essential you were, yet did point out my respect for what you do.
So your job has nothing to do with your morals and where they land on the 'morality scale'? (continued at the bottom)
Pemalite said:
Again, you are only thinking about yourself.
Speaking with a P1/P2 mask on isn't difficult, so that's a bullshit excuse... You forget (and excuse the selfie) I wear this (Which is far more restrictive) and communicate just fine. It's literally air tight.
But apparently a few seconds of your time is worth more than the health and well-being of another human being? This is why I am me and you are you and we likely have very different lifestyles.
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"All people are not the same", is me being selfish? Acknowledging that people are different and that things shouldn't necessarily be the same for everyone because of that? Allowing them to have as much choice as reasonably possible?
You don't even need air to communicate. We have satellites in space. It's not like you're always in a music studio when talking to someone else. Background noise and noise pollution, along with mother nature can make for easy miscommunication. When dealing with high voltage, especially utility scale, close enough isn't good enough when it comes to communication and operation.
Pemalite said:
It's actually the law for vehicles to pull over to the side of the road here to allow emergency service vehicles to pass unrestricted.
Which makes your argument entirely baseless.
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Except for that only applies to those types of essential vehicles, which electrical (utility) vehicles don't fall under. No special lights or sirens, no unrestricted travel, just deal with the traffic like everyone else. Kind of makes you wonder how essential are they then?
Pemalite said:
Health care and emergency services should have substantial "caches" of PPE in order to draw from.
If they do not, then that is a failure on planning from elected officials. (I.E. Trumps political party.)
And no. People should not be "free" to choose to do whatever they desire, whenever they desire if it puts someone elses life at risk, that's not how you build a cohesive, civil society... And if the United States is an example of anything, it's that allowing a free-for-all has turned the entire nation into the epicenter of disease, death and often a joke on the world stage. (I.E. Gun related massacres.)
The USA isn't "great" at the moment, it's basically educating the world on what "not to do".
Basically what you are proposing is that... A parent should be allowed to drop their COVID-positive child off at daycare, because they have to work, to spread disease, the other 100+ parents aren't "free" to say "no" to that and protect their COVID-negative children, you put that one child above all the others.
If the economy is so important though, why not just keep everyone in lockdown and just kill a few rich people to boost the economy? You will have more GDP per Deaths that way.
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The last political party didn't bother restocking after usage. The most recent, inherited yet another problem to deal with, and yet get's all the blame. Should have, would have, could have, is everyday life, and yet we act like the norm is perfection.
"As reasonably as possible", does not mean anyone can choose to do whatever they desire, at least not over here. The US seems to be more forgiving when it comes to freedoms, but even some of the states that remained in significant lock down had substantial spikes when ever so slowly reopening, leading to more clamp downs. So how much lock down exactly was necessary to solve the problem as perfectly as possible? Nobody knows, that's the biggest problem.
Isn't that what the USSR did? Kill/jail all the rich and hard working people to spread the wealth to 'boost the economy'? How did that work out for them?
Pemalite said:
No. Personal opinions and choices do not matter.
If you are not an essential worker, then your line of work isn't "essential" for society to remain functional, thus your job can be put on stand-by with government support in order to protect other lives.
Morality has absolutely nothing to do with it, this isn't religion, it's common sense stuff.
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So if you or I personally chose to quit doing our essential jobs, then that wouldn't matter, and wouldn't impact our perceived morality?
Then why when you made it clear that you had the "moral high ground", did you use what you do at your job as affirmation?
Who's more moral? Any essential worker, who doesn't wear a mask, or a wall street banker, who does and praises themselves on Twitter for it?
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