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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

Trumpstyle said:

The computer glitch was in stockholm, that backlog that glitch caused all belongs to Stockholm, I see worldometer is reporting 114 cases for us yesterday, the media here says 948 cases, worldometer must be using bad source.

Our increase isn't because of the computer glitch from the look of it. The confirmed cases are growing in Västra Götaland where our second biggest city lies (Gothenburg).

But I don't think the spread of the virus is increasing, if you read one of my previous post, we are doing a lot more testing. In beginning of April we were doing 20k tests a week we now doing 36k tests a week.

500 Cases for Ontario isn't that much, I'm not sure why you guys are so careful, population is over 14 million over there. Västra Götaland only 1.7 million people :)

We are careful because there are still 160 people dying every week of covid19...

Yet some measures need to be reduced, hospitals need to go back to normal operations. There is also still the fear of catching the virus when going to the doctor or hospital. Sadly a colleague of my brother in law died a couple days ago from a heart attack, alone at home. (My brother in law went to look for him when he didn't show up for work) He was more afraid of catching covid19 than going to the hospital with chest / arm pain :(

Better communication, better testing and keeping covid19 cases away from general hospitals still need to be done.

Btw infometer updated to 752 cases for yesterday, the main page says 114 but the detailed page has the revised numbers. They have sort of tried to fix the glitch by reworking their data backwards but only in the detailed page.

Not so nice report on Sweden from Canada
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/sweden-didn-t-lock-down-but-economy-to-plunge-anyway-1.4973195

Under the Scandinavian country's controversial approach to the virus, cafes, bars, restaurants and most businesses remained open, as did schools for under-16s, with people urged to follow social distancing and hygiene guidelines. Whatever hope there may have been that this policy would soften the economic blow now seems dashed.

"As in most of the world, there will be a record decline for the Swedish economy in Q2," SEB bank economist Olle Holmgren said. A rebound was likely in the latter part of the year, but "we expect it to take a long time before the situation normalises," he told AFP. To be fair, Swedish officials insist their strategy was always aimed at public health, and never specifically at saving the economy.

The idea was to make sure hospitals could keep pace with the outbreak and protect the elderly and at-risk groups. Sweden has succeeded at the former, but admitted failure at the latter, with more than three-quarters of virus deaths occurring among nursing home residents and those receiving care at home.

Authorities acknowledge that keeping businesses open was also part of a broader public health consideration, as high unemployment and a weak economy typically lead to poorer public health. Sweden, a country of 10.3 million, had reported 4,639 COVID-19 deaths as of Friday. That gives it one of the world's highest virus mortality rates, with 459.3 deaths per million inhabitants -- four times more than neighbouring Denmark and 10 times more than Norway, which both imposed stricter confinement measures.


vivster said:
I don't think we will get a second big wave. Masks and distancing is just too effective. If I had to make a guess I'd say that if full lockdown prevents 100% of spread then mandatory masks and distancing are about 80% effective. Coupled with very few active cases it's gonna be really easy to keep going down in cases while having economy up at 90%.

Of course this won't work well in stupid countries where measures are eased before getting active cases down at all.

How quickly the Western superiority complex comes back up ;)

Masks aren't all that effective, they are mostly effective against coughing, they are not effective at all at stopping the virus to be inhaled. Distancing is only effective up to a point.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/is-it-safe-to-dine-on-a-patio-during-covid-19-1.4972610

Farber points to a study by Chinese researchers which looked at a case of transmission at a restaurant in Guangzhou, China in January. An asymptomatic diner seated in the middle of the restaurant appeared to spread the virus to nine other people in the space. Though the study had several limitations, researchers suggested that the restaurants air conditioner spread the virus particles around the dining room.

Outside is much safer but patios need to be re-arranged for good airflow and distancing, since you obviously can't eat/drink with a mask on.



Update for Europe, 3 day average reported cases

Russia leading the way with 8800 cases per day out of Europe's current 16.5K per day.
5 made it below the 100 cases per day line so far, Denmark, Austria, Ireland, Switzerland and Norway.

3 day average reported deaths

The UK is leading in reported deaths (although Russia is only counting half) with 250 a day out of Europe's 700 a day.
3 countries beat the virus, Norway, Austria and Switzerland are off the map, Denmark very close, Ireland getting there.
It's is pretty disheartening to see how long it still takes Italy to get the death rate down, still at 82 reported deaths per day (from a peak of 855)
Spain is still updating their reporting system, they went from 60 deaths a day to 1 or 2 a day while 'fixing' things.

Week over week

Slight slight growth in Russia, better testing catching up perhaps.
The UK declining but slowly.
Italy is pretty consistent in its decline, showing how long it takes to get back down from a big peak.
The Netherlands is veering back up a bit, less stability in reporting, same with Germany.
Belgium dipped under the 100 cases for a couple days, now back over 100.
Norway has a slight increase to around 20 cases a day, looks dramatic week over week compared to 12 cases a day a week ago.
Sweden has a big increase, from a glitch, Vastra Gotaland getting big and likely also increased testing catching already ongoing cases.

With 4,851 deaths last week in Europe this thing is far from over. Plus that's missing data from Spain and the very much under counted Russia as well as under counting in other countries. The world total passed 400K reported deaths yesterday. (Europe 178.5K total, NA 134.7K, Oceania 124!)

Last edited by SvennoJ - on 07 June 2020

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Didn't the WHO come out recently saying if you are young and healthy that wearing mask isn't that important anymore?



sethnintendo said:
Didn't the WHO come out recently saying if you are young and healthy that wearing mask isn't that important anymore?

It is still helpful

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

Asking everyone to wear cloth masks can help reduce the spread of the coronavirus by people who have COVID-19 but don't realize it. And countries that required face masks, testing, isolation and social distancing early in the pandemic seem to have had some success slowing the spread of the virus.

Even though it doesn't stop you from getting it, it reduces you spreading it when you're an asymptomatic carrier. Age doesn't matter afaik?

Since I've been 'isolating' for so long, me wearing one in public probably won't do much for me, nor do I see how I could be asymptomatic while being so careful. However people do as people see, me wearing one in public might reduce the 'barrier' for others to do the same.



Yes I'd hate to pass it on to others but I have yet to wear one. I barely go to stores and stay away from everyone at least 6 feet. My understanding was that as long as you can maintain social distance then mask wasn't that important. Thought it was mainly for people that have to crowd together like in public transportation. Here in Texas a majority still wear them in stores but more people are starting not to. Yes I know I'm terrible person not wearing one but I try to stick to nose breathing only and barely any talking while in gas station or store.



Yes I'd hate to pass it on to others but I have yet to wear one. I barely go to stores and stay away from everyone at least 6 feet except maybe passing someone in an aisle. My understanding was that as long as you can maintain social distance then mask wasn't that important. Thought it was mainly for people that have to crowd together like in public transportation. Here in Texas a majority still wear them in stores but more people are starting not to. Yes I know I'm terrible person not wearing one but I try to stick to nose breathing only and barely any talking while in gas station or store.



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sethnintendo said:
Yes I'd hate to pass it on to others but I have yet to wear one. I barely go to stores and stay away from everyone at least 6 feet. My understanding was that as long as you can maintain social distance then mask wasn't that important. Thought it was mainly for people that have to crowd together like in public transportation. Here in Texas a majority still wear them in stores but more people are starting not to. Yes I know I'm terrible person not wearing one but I try to stick to nose breathing only and barely any talking while in gas station or store.

The current advice here is to where one in places where social distancing is a challenge. Like you said, public transport, crowded stores. No talking and breathing through your nose also reduces the spread as much as a face mask would. The smallest aerosol particles get through the mask anyway (and can survive up to 4 hours drifting around in the air). But you need more exposure than a couple particles for the infection to have a chance to take hold. It's a numbers game hence the 2 meter distance. The more chance the virus has to disperse in the air the less dangerous it gets. However if it keeps recirculating through air conditioning in a confined space, risk of infection goes up.

Masks are mostly effective to stop spread through talking, coughing, sneezing.

Touch is a bigger factor to catch it, so always wash your hands after touching things, before touching your face or taking the mask off. And again after taking the mask off in case anything stuck to it.

And then you have to be careful with lunatics around. They caught a guy here at Walmart, opening shampoo bottles and spitting in each one of them, then putting them back on the shelf. They took all the shampoo off. (The virus probably dies in the shampoo anyway, but really, some people...) Hence I'm not taking any chances with stuff coming in the house either.

https://www.healthline.com/health/how-long-does-coronavirus-last-on-surfaces

Always good to wash your hands again after handling anything coming from outside, taken back home etc. Plastic 3 to 7 days....



Yes we had few cases of people coughing on food in grocery stores. Those people are sick. One lady did like 30k in damage because they had to throw out all the meat, fruits and vegetables.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/grocery-store-throws-out-35k-worth-food-woman-coughed-twisted-n1169401

Something is wrong with people like that. Hopefully they put her in debt for 35k and make her pay. Some jail or prison time wouldn't be bad idea either.



Canada is also putting police reforms and de-arming (of the police) higher on the agenda again amid ongoing protests.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/06/07/covid-19-and-police-violence-fuel-a-push-to-declare-anti-black-racism-a-public-health-crisis.html

Also calls to start collecting race data for covid19 deaths (which hasn't been kept track of here)

For some, the protests erupting in reaction to the deaths of George Floyd and Regis Korchinski-Paquet have been a distraction from the COVID-19 pandemic. But Black health leaders say these two crises are connected by the same deep-rooted ill: anti-Black racism.

Researchers, advocates and racialized communities have long recognized racism as being harmful to human health. But there are now calls from multiple groups to declare anti-Black racism a public health crisis — an effort they say has taken on fresh urgency in the face of COVID and police violence, both of which disproportionately impact Black communities.

“Systemic anti-Black racism is a public health crisis in Canada,” said Dr. Onye Nnorom, a public health specialist with the University of Toronto’s Dalla Lana School of Public Health, and president of the Black Physicians’ Association of Ontario. “We are at that point. We are dying and no one is paying attention, whether it’s due to police violence or health-care neglect.”



For some it's indeed a distraction from covid19, 200k demonstrators showed up in Washington
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2020/06/06/washington-braces-for-largest-protests-in-the-city-yet-over-the-killing-of-george-floyd.html

If there is strength in numbers, then Saturday’s crowds on the streets of Washington were by a fair measure largest and most powerful yet. An estimated 200,000 people, outraged by George Floyd’s death 12 days ago at the hands of Minneapolis police, gathered in the newly-renamed Black Lives Matter Plaza near the White House, before the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, and on the grounds Capitol Hill. They marched through residential and commercial neighbourhoods all throughout the city, in a movement against police brutality and in favour of racial justice, chanting “Black Lives Matter.”

That's got to have an effect, perhaps not on reforms, but on covid19 deaths.

In a contrast to the scenes of armed troops liberally using pepper spray and charging crowds alongside broken windows and burning buildings that defined the media image of protests on the same site less than a week ago, the mood on the street near the White House in the hot sun of the afternoon was almost like that of a concert festival. A giant “Black Lives Matter” mural had been painted in yellow on the road, and on it a man played a guitar and sang into a microphone. People at tables handed out bottled water and snacks, and local restaurants distributed free sandwiches and half-smoked sausage dogs. A P.A. system a block north pumped hip-hop near porta-potties and food trucks. People snapped selfies in the street near unarmed soldiers in combat fatigues.

What pandemic?

These may be the symptoms of a movement going mainstream — and the question on some minds is whether this softer, family-friendly form of demonstration would ramp up or relieve the momentum toward addressing racial injustice.

Elijah Devine spoke loudly to remind everyone they were protesting a man’s death — and too many other deaths. “Someone literally put the foot on a black brother’s neck, and we are right here walking around cool, singing Kumbaya?” he said. “Just remember what you’re here for. Remember the purpose. George Floyd got killed. Sandra Bland got killed, right? Say their names! People are just walking down the street, like this is a party. Like this is a festival. This is not a festival OK? This is talking about life,”



Florida saw the largest 3 day coronavirus cases. NY hospitalization rate doubled the other day. Wrre starting to see the immediate effect of the protests.



Does Canada have a race problem? Perception down here in USA is that Canadians are friendly bunch that don't even lock their doors at their homes.