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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

John2290 said:
crissindahouse said:

I wouldn't take that pic serious. Take the Spanish flu as example. There are different theories where it originated but whoever made that pic did obvioudly choose "it came from China". I guess it's the same with some other ones.

Originated in. Not first recorded in. The evidence points to China and same for Swine Flu but the China propaganda machine managed to, at the very least put the latters origin somehow up in the air. 

Fuck China. I'll not be a China apologist for this when the downplayed and so fucking obviously lied and STILL continue to lie now calling it an American outbreak. Fuck them. The CCP deserve nothing less than being taken out of power by their people. 

I think you are blaming China unreasonably here. Your bias is a showing a little as well. When the American president calls it the Chinese virus, you can't really ,ale any claims about propaganda with a straight face unless you are neutral and not allied with or fighting against either. China didn't do the best job in stopping the virus but then again, China isn't to blame for the worst hit regions outside chins like US and Italy. Those countries weren't taking it seriously and the blame lies on them, not Chian for that. South Korea, Singapore and other regions handled it much better and the credit goes to the, as well. Anyone not taking this pandemic seriously is to blame. It doesn't really matter where it originated that much. It only matters who contained it and who didn't and when can a vaccine be made.



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Now just imagine sneaky incubation time of this one with lethality of MERS...hm, probably someone already came up with that one, so the way I see it, the more people get immunity with this one, the higher chance the less shit will go down next time...when it's actually serious.



HoloDust said:
Now just imagine sneaky incubation time of this one with lethality of MERS...hm, probably someone already came up with that one, so the way I see it, the more people get immunity with this one, the higher chance the less shit will go down next time...when it's actually serious.

MERS and Covid-19 has about the same median incubation period (roughly 6 days). What makes Covid-19 so much more difficult to contain is the large amount of asymptomatic carriers.



British premier minister Johnsen is tested positive für COVID-19. 



JRPGfan said:



^ italy might not be counting all deaths related to covid19 either.

in Bergamo, they had 348 deaths above the "norm", these past 23days.
Only 136 were counted as caused by covid19.

Again this is the not testing the dead, or those that were outsides hospitals type of thingy.
Makes you wonder if alot of places around the world, the deaths caused by covid19 is actually alot higher than those numbers they report.

"They all coincidentally died from pneumonia and lung infections, but it wasn't related to coronavirus, promise!" - Twitter user comment.

It's a certainty that to "real" death toll is higher than what we see. Even if we had 100% honest people around the world reporting every case regardless of circumstances, we would be bound to miss some. Now, factor in all the politics involved in wanting to have the numbers as low as possible and there's no doubt the official numbers are too low.



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Athaba said:

British premier minister Johnsen is tested positive für COVID-19. 



barneystinson69 said:

This social distancing is killing me rn too. Idk how people are going to handle this for months more.

The government isn't handling it well either. First they are so far behind test results it's impossible to know where the virus is. Then instead of telling people to be reasonable and stay away from each other, first they close all the regular meeting places (drive-through only) reduce mall hours etc. Thus what do people do, go sit in the park together to sip their coffee. Then they close the parks, people take their coffee to sit at the trail heads together. Now the trails and are closed, the GRCA considers it tress passing if you enter and any cars at the trail heads will be fined. There's nothing wrong with people going outside as long as they keep 2 meters apart and stay in when sick. Canada is big enough for that, yet by closing off more and more space you are driving them closer together!

I'm going to try to get out for a run later today. My usual jogging trail is all private land, not an official trail, shouldn't be closed. Exercise is good to build up immunity, reduces stress and anxiety and generally makes you feel better. Last time I went there (3 days ago) I saw no one (it was snowing) just a dozen deer crossing the river, so cool.

Supermarkets and drug stores are doing the right thing. Extend their opening hours (extra senior only hour before regular opening times) and make sure people stay spaced out. But the government needs to think about the mental health of their people as well or suicide rates will go up further.



Kristof81 said:
Athaba said:

British premier minister Johnsen is tested positive für COVID-19. 


Boris a week ago: "Assures people, he wont stop shakeing hands during corona outbreak" (your all blowing this out of perportions)

Boris now: "I've developed mild symptoms of corona virus, thats to say a temp. and a persistant caugh, and on the advice of the chef medical officer, I've taken a test, and thats come out positive"



JRPGfan said:

It turns out our goverment (in denmark) is/was being silly.

Why didnt we test more? apparently because we were trying for a "soft" herd immunity buildup.
We didnt even really "try" to stop this thing in its tracks.... apparently they thought that would be impossible.

Takeing about waves of this thing returning, and how the first wave will be the worst but not the end of it, so its important to get the less at risk, to build up herd immunity.
Facking hell.... even in denmark, we re likely going to sacrifice our elderly for the economy (though in a controlled manner).

source: https://politiken.dk/forbrugogliv/sundhedogmotion/art7727704/K%C3%A5re-M%C3%B8lbak-er-uenig-med-WHO-Det-er-%C2%BBtotalt-pass%C3%A9%C2%AB-at-indd%C3%A6mme-smitten


"thats just it, this is the problem with what WHO is saying,. They imagine that you can contain all cases of infection, however I believe that to be wrong" - Kåre Mølbæk.

"at best state serium institute, believe we can halve the transmitting, following the shutdown meassures we've taken, and thus have the "curve" flatten out, which will allow for the hospitals to keep up with it"

"if we tried to follow WHO sayings, we wouldnt reach any meaningfull sort of herd immunity, were a large enough amount of people get the infection and build up herd immunity, and thereby become immune to the virus in the future. If we did that, we would risk a secound wave, following to potentially be just as bad as this first one"

About home isolation:

"precisely, they shouldn't bring the infection outsides, infecting others outsides their home. However thats not the goal of the danish strategi, we dont want to stop infection. We need to build up a certain amount of herd immunity, this is a common goal amoungst all of europe"

"if we do this right, the virus wont be makeing a return"



Reporter: You say the infection cannot be contained.... why?

"You can, in the start of a infection chain. There you could try to contain it, as long as there is a very limited spread and your sure you can find everyone infected. However this is a illness that often has very mild symptoms, and you cannot with certainty identify, easily if a person has Covid19, it might well be other possible breathing related illnesses"

reporter: If we had gotten hold of all the early infected, these people that went on holidays, skiing in italy...and all their contacts, could we have done so?

"Yes, but then the infection would have just gotten in some other way"

reporter: How can you be so sure? this is hard to understand, why didnt you try?

"Because its too infectious, and it infects before you have any symptoms. There is nothing characteristic, thats easy to "know" this illness on. The problem with some of these experts from WHO, is that they are takeing their experiance from fighting SARS and Polio and other illnesses to this, ignoreing that this illness is differnt, it has no easily spotted characteristic patern. Therefor theres no way around it, we need to build up a certain herd immunity in our population. The first wave will be the worst, and the next will be milder, and at some point 40-60% will have gotten it, it will find a balance and end up a natural infection amoung all others"


Reporter: What exactly is it WHO arnt right in, when they say isolate and test everyone?

"How is that ever going to happend in a country like india? or in a country on the african continent? I cannot for the life of me, see it, not with the resources they have. Thats something possible probably only in small island societies or extremely reource rich societies. However if you look at "whole" continents, thats never going to be a real option. The virus outbreaks will keep comeing on and on. You would need to make a form of border countroll, that tested for immunities or sickness, before entry. Even if such a thing sounds do-able, its actually not something possible to put into practis on a global scale, in the world we live in"



This is what you see in the UK too, they also went for a herd immunity route.
Sweden as well.. hell I suspect even in the US.

Why did trump go on tv and say :
"dont worry people, its only 15 infected, a week from now, the numbers will drop, they ll recover, its like a miracle, it ll be gone"


He was probably told, to say something calming to the people, so it would start to spread.
perphaps all the larger nations / continents, are chooseing a controlled herd immunity strategy.

Where's the evidence you actually build up immunity for a second wave?
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/coronavirus-immunity-reinfection-get-covid-19-twice-sick-spread-relapse-a9400691.html
It's a rather huge gamble (while sacrificing the elderly) on an assumption that it likely works like earlier corona viruses.

So were they being silly, or still going through with herd immunity?



SvennoJ said:
JRPGfan said:

It turns out our goverment (in denmark) is/was being silly.

Why didnt we test more? apparently because we were trying for a "soft" herd immunity buildup.
We didnt even really "try" to stop this thing in its tracks.... apparently they thought that would be impossible.

Takeing about waves of this thing returning, and how the first wave will be the worst but not the end of it, so its important to get the less at risk, to build up herd immunity.
Facking hell.... even in denmark, we re likely going to sacrifice our elderly for the economy (though in a controlled manner).

source: https://politiken.dk/forbrugogliv/sundhedogmotion/art7727704/K%C3%A5re-M%C3%B8lbak-er-uenig-med-WHO-Det-er-%C2%BBtotalt-pass%C3%A9%C2%AB-at-indd%C3%A6mme-smitten


"thats just it, this is the problem with what WHO is saying,. They imagine that you can contain all cases of infection, however I believe that to be wrong" - Kåre Mølbæk.

"at best state serium institute, believe we can halve the transmitting, following the shutdown meassures we've taken, and thus have the "curve" flatten out, which will allow for the hospitals to keep up with it"

"if we tried to follow WHO sayings, we wouldnt reach any meaningfull sort of herd immunity, were a large enough amount of people get the infection and build up herd immunity, and thereby become immune to the virus in the future. If we did that, we would risk a secound wave, following to potentially be just as bad as this first one"

About home isolation:

"precisely, they shouldn't bring the infection outsides, infecting others outsides their home. However thats not the goal of the danish strategi, we dont want to stop infection. We need to build up a certain amount of herd immunity, this is a common goal amoungst all of europe"

"if we do this right, the virus wont be makeing a return"



Reporter: You say the infection cannot be contained.... why?

"You can, in the start of a infection chain. There you could try to contain it, as long as there is a very limited spread and your sure you can find everyone infected. However this is a illness that often has very mild symptoms, and you cannot with certainty identify, easily if a person has Covid19, it might well be other possible breathing related illnesses"

reporter: If we had gotten hold of all the early infected, these people that went on holidays, skiing in italy...and all their contacts, could we have done so?

"Yes, but then the infection would have just gotten in some other way"

reporter: How can you be so sure? this is hard to understand, why didnt you try?

"Because its too infectious, and it infects before you have any symptoms. There is nothing characteristic, thats easy to "know" this illness on. The problem with some of these experts from WHO, is that they are takeing their experiance from fighting SARS and Polio and other illnesses to this, ignoreing that this illness is differnt, it has no easily spotted characteristic patern. Therefor theres no way around it, we need to build up a certain herd immunity in our population. The first wave will be the worst, and the next will be milder, and at some point 40-60% will have gotten it, it will find a balance and end up a natural infection amoung all others"


Reporter: What exactly is it WHO arnt right in, when they say isolate and test everyone?

"How is that ever going to happend in a country like india? or in a country on the african continent? I cannot for the life of me, see it, not with the resources they have. Thats something possible probably only in small island societies or extremely reource rich societies. However if you look at "whole" continents, thats never going to be a real option. The virus outbreaks will keep comeing on and on. You would need to make a form of border countroll, that tested for immunities or sickness, before entry. Even if such a thing sounds do-able, its actually not something possible to put into practis on a global scale, in the world we live in"



This is what you see in the UK too, they also went for a herd immunity route.
Sweden as well.. hell I suspect even in the US.

Why did trump go on tv and say :
"dont worry people, its only 15 infected, a week from now, the numbers will drop, they ll recover, its like a miracle, it ll be gone"


He was probably told, to say something calming to the people, so it would start to spread.
perphaps all the larger nations / continents, are chooseing a controlled herd immunity strategy.

Where's the evidence you actually build up immunity for a second wave?

It's a rather huge gamble (while sacrificing the elderly) on an assumption that it likely works like earlier corona viruses.

So were they being silly, or still going through with herd immunity?

It sounds stupid to me too.

I think it was "always" the plan, but to do it slowly, so you can handle it (hospital loads).
Atleast thats what this guy from SSI is saying in this article.

So far, I think theres no solid evidence that you can get it again, after you've had it.
You had a few cases of people that where "recovered" (but still had the virus) and it popped back up.
But so far the belief (as I understand it) is once you have it, you have immunity for a periode of time.

The thing that gets me though, is how pessimistic he sounds in stopping it in its tracks.

"So were they being silly, or still going through with herd immunity?"

If you follow the media on tv, you would believe differntly than what this scientist is saying.
You would think their doing everything they can to slow or stop the spread.

we re now able to test 5,000+ pr day for the infection.
In a small country of only 6,7 million inhabitans.

Also we re in full shutdown and have been for awhile.
So maybe this was just the plan at first... and now its "full breaks" we gonna stop or slow this thing? I dont know.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 27 March 2020