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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Jason Schreier: Sony's Horizon coming to PC later this year

Bandorr said:
Interesting. Surprising. Also a really good game.
It looked amazing on the Playstation. It will probably blow minds on the PC.

That's the whole idea, to blow PC gamers minds so much that they buy a PS5 just for the sequel that should launch shortly after. Its smart business.



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jason1637 said:
That's good news. Hopefully Death Stranding and HZD are the start of PS games coming to PC.

Death stranding was never a ps4 game.

Sony is doing well, this is not for customers like me who already plan to get a ps5 which will play horizon, this is for people on the fence, to make them wish to play the sequel which will be exclusive for ps5. This is why there's no Last of us on PC, because pc gamers would just get a ps4 to play the sequel, and sony doesn't want to sell ps4s next year, they want to sell Ps5s 

Hence why sony should release God of war for PC JUST BEFORE god of war 5 releases on ps5

This is smart marketing, fishing for more buyers on the PC audience.



think-man said:
Too many rumors for this not to true. Maybe a PS5 and PC release.

Horizon zero dawn is ALREADY on the ps5 with better graphics, why would there be a ps5 release?



the-pi-guy said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

The law and/or a judge can say that 2+2 = 5. Doesn't make it so.

Most lawmakers are completely ignorant about how technology from 2000 works, let alone modern tech. Most judges are either just as ignorant, or incompetent partisan political appointees. At least that's how it is here in the USA. 

Considering piracy is a legal term, that comparison makes no sense.

It's not just a legal term. There's piracy in the legal sense, and piracy in the Plain English sense. Just like how there's murder in the legal sense, and murder in the Plain English sense. If a country passes a law saying that strangulation isn't murder, that just means it isn't murder in the legal sense. In the Plain English sense however it is still murder. 

Here's a real life example: https://www.vox.com/2015/7/8/8909133/civil-forfeiture-states-map In many states and counties in the USA the police can legally take your stuff "because you might have used it to commit a crime" and sell it later. Clearly this is outright theft. But the law allows this so legally it isn't theft. Even though it plainly is. 

Another great example of the law being made up nonsense is the Dredd Scott slavery case from the 1800's. This guy was clearly a free man legally speaking, but the Supreme Court at the time ruled otherwise. The law could say in no uncertain terms that emulation of current gen games is piracy, but if a random judge rules that it isn't then legally it isn't. We could pass a law tomorrow saying that pizza is illegal, but if the Supreme Court rules that pizza is legal, then it is. 

Or how you can be charged with murder, have ten witnesses confirm your alibi, but still get convicted, because your lawyer failed to get their testimony within an arbitrary cutoff period. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 23 January 2020

Cerebralbore101 said:
d21lewis said:
Didn't realize it was out so soon. I'll buy it as soon as I finish Xenoblade Chronicles 2. I have a loooong way to go, though.

Pemalite said:

Except you can play pirate Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey on PC...




At some point all your Nintendo and Playstation games will end up on PC, it's not a matter of if, but when... So why not make some money and port the games over to Steam? It also brings brand recognition to your console platforms from dedicated PC gamers, who then may purchase said console for the living room.

Fixed it for you. 

Emulation isn't piracy... So you didn't fix anything.
Nor do I condone piracy.

Cerebralbore101 said:

Emulating current gen games on a PC is piracy, unless you own the system it was meant for, and a legitimate a copy of the game. 90% of people playing BotW or Odyssey on PC have neither. 

Emulation is not piracy.
Piracy is when you obtain an illegal copy of a game, not when you emulate a game, otherwise the Xbox One emulating Original Xbox or Xbox 360 games can be regarded as piracy or the Playstation 3 running Playstation 1/2 games could be regarded as piracy.

Some regions (like my own) also allow you to legally make backup copies of your games.

Many emulators allow you to drop the disk into your PC's disk drive and run the game straight from there.

Cerebralbore101 said:

Buying a Switch is part of the cost of playing Nintendo games. Just like having a PS+ account is part of the cost of playing the online portion of a PS4 game. If I were to find a way to circumvent the PS+ requirement of playing the online portion of a PS4 game, I'd be partially pirating the game. Partially pirating = pirating. So people that play a Switch game on PC, when they don't actually own a Switch are pirating the game. 

Some games have a LAN multiplayer function, those games regardless if it's a Super Nintendo, Dreamcast, Playstation 4, Xbox 360, Nintendo DS... Can all be played online with some tunneling tricks... For example: XLink Kai which you can use to Play Halo 2 online even on the Original Xbox.

So no, PS+ or Xbox Live is not the cost of playing online if you don't wish to do so, it's also not piracy.

Cerebralbore101 said:


And before anybody says anything about game preservation and the like, I'd like to remind them that there's absolutely no reason to try to "preserve" a game on a current gen system. I'd like to also remind them that emulation of last gen games is perfectly fine, especially games that are ten years old or older, and/or hard to find. 

Breath of the Wild is a last gen-game from a last-gen system though.

Game preservation starts the day a game is released, not 10 years down the track.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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@Pemalite A reply to your post is incoming. The site is being wonky with detailed replies these days. I can't seem to bold, copy, or paste anything in the post editor. 

the-pi-guy said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

It's not just a legal term. There's piracy in the legal sense, and piracy in the Plain English sense. Just like how there's murder in the legal sense, and murder in the Plain English sense. If a country passes a law saying that strangulation isn't murder, that just means it isn't murder in the legal sense. In the Plain English sense however it is still murder. 

What do you view as the "plain English sense" of the word?

And how does hardware emulation fit under that?

Consuming, or taking media without paying the full asking price for it. Theft. 

Obviously common sense things like loaning a friend a copy, buying a game on sale, or buying a used copy don't count. But that goes for everything that is purchased. If I bought and gave a friend an apple, it obviously wouldn't be theft. If I chose to share that apple with my friend it wouldn't be theft either. If I loan a book, or check it out at the public library that isn't theft or piracy either. But again, that's all common sense and shouldn't need any pointing out. 



Pemalite said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

I am not super crazy enthused about getting a Switch but I may end up getting one cause I'd love to play Zelda BoTW, Super Mario Odyssey etc. Why? Because I can't play those games on PS4, if I could I would NEVER get a Switch. Nintendo wants to sell Switches therefore Nintendo keeps those games exclusively to the Switch, makes total sense.

Except you can play Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey on PC...




At some point all your Nintendo and Playstation games will end up on PC, it's not a matter of if, but when... So why not make some money and port the games over to Steam? It also brings brand recognition to your console platforms from dedicated PC gamers, who then may purchase said console for the living room.

Pema, you know your stuff. Is there anything stopping MS from turning XB2 into a cheap gaming PC that has an option to run Windows?



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

Pemalite said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Emulating current gen games on a PC is piracy, unless you own the system it was meant for, and a legitimate a copy of the game. 90% of people playing BotW or Odyssey on PC have neither. 

Emulation is not piracy.
Piracy is when you obtain an illegal copy of a game, not when you emulate a game, otherwise the Xbox One emulating Original Xbox or Xbox 360 games can be regarded as piracy or the Playstation 3 running Playstation 1/2 games could be regarded as piracy.

Some regions (like my own) also allow you to legally make backup copies of your games.

Many emulators allow you to drop the disk into your PC's disk drive and run the game straight from there.

Cerebralbore101 said:

Buying a Switch is part of the cost of playing Nintendo games. Just like having a PS+ account is part of the cost of playing the online portion of a PS4 game. If I were to find a way to circumvent the PS+ requirement of playing the online portion of a PS4 game, I'd be partially pirating the game. Partially pirating = pirating. So people that play a Switch game on PC, when they don't actually own a Switch are pirating the game. 

Some games have a LAN multiplayer function, those games regardless if it's a Super Nintendo, Dreamcast, Playstation 4, Xbox 360, Nintendo DS... Can all be played online with some tunneling tricks... For example: XLink Kai which you can use to Play Halo 2 online even on the Original Xbox.

So no, PS+ or Xbox Live is not the cost of playing online if you don't wish to do so, it's also not piracy.

Cerebralbore101 said:


And before anybody says anything about game preservation and the like, I'd like to remind them that there's absolutely no reason to try to "preserve" a game on a current gen system. I'd like to also remind them that emulation of last gen games is perfectly fine, especially games that are ten years old or older, and/or hard to find. 

Breath of the Wild is a last gen-game from a last-gen system though.

Game preservation starts the day a game is released, not 10 years down the track.

"Emulation is not piracy.
Piracy is when you obtain an illegal copy of a game, not when you emulate a game, otherwise the Xbox One emulating Original Xbox or Xbox 360 games can be regarded as piracy or the Playstation 3 running Playstation 1/2 games could be regarded as piracy."

That's an excellent rebuttal of the idea that all emulation is piracy! Unfortunately, I'm not arguing for that idea, so this adds nothing to the conversation. 

"Some regions (like my own) also allow you to legally make backup copies of your games. Many emulators allow you to drop the disk into your PC's disk drive and run the game straight from there." 

Whether or not your region allows you to make backup copies is irrelevant. Same goes for an emulator allowing you to drop the disk into your PC's disk drive. If you think they are relevant, then please make an argument including those facts. Just throwing those two facts out there doesn't rebut anything on its own. Thanks. 

"Some games have a LAN multiplayer function, those games regardless if it's a Super Nintendo, Dreamcast, Playstation 4, Xbox 360, Nintendo DS... Can all be played online with some tunneling tricks... For example: XLink Kai which you can use to Play Halo 2 online even on the Original Xbox.So no, PS+ or Xbox Live is not the cost of playing online if you don't wish to do so, it's also not piracy."

An extreme minority of games allowing you to play LAN multiplayer doesn't invalidate my example. Even if we lived in a world where PS+ had just launched last year, and MH World was the only game, with full multiplayer, locked behind PS+, my example would still stand. The existence of things contrary to an example doesn't invalidate it. If I explain that a round road sign will roll downhill, and you object that some road signs are square, that rebuts nothing. In the case of a game that wasn't designed for LAN or offline multiplayer it is clearly piracy. 

"Breath of the Wild is a last gen-game from a last-gen system though.Game preservation starts the day a game is released, not 10 years down the track."

While BotW technically released on a last gen system, it is clearly far more of a current gen game. It was released for Wii U on the very day the system became obsolete (as in no longer the latest home console hardware from Nintendo). Nintendo clearly didn't plan on moving millions of Wii U units by releasing BotW onto it. Obviously the game was released with the intention of moving millions of Switches. The vast majority of players own and play the Switch version of the game. If BotW is a last gen game, then any animal with a single white spot must be an albino. 

You can claim that game preservation starts instantly, but that is irrelevant. What is relevant is if you have any good reasons for why game preservation should start on release day of the game. In the case of Nintendo games, which sell millions of copies a year there is absolutely no need to attempt to preserve these games.  Hell, even with Panzer Dragoon Saga (A game which saw fewer than 20,000 U.S. copies printed), I couldn't manage to erase that game if I dedicated my life to it. Imagine trying to hunt down every last working copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga, and burning it. It just can't be done. There are working Atari and NES consoles out in the wild today, so the idea that we need emulators up and running on day 1 is ridiculous. 

So can you give good reasons why game preservation needs to start on release day? If not, then game preservation, through day 1 emulation, is clearly a smokescreen for piracy. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 24 January 2020

the-pi-guy said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

@Pemalite A reply to your post is incoming. The site is being wonky with detailed replies these days. I can't seem to bold, copy, or paste anything in the post editor. 

Consuming, or taking media without paying the full asking price for it. Theft. 

Obviously common sense things like loaning a friend a copy, buying a game on sale, or buying a used copy don't count. But that goes for everything that is purchased. If I bought and gave a friend an apple, it obviously wouldn't be theft. If I chose to share that apple with my friend it wouldn't be theft either. If I loan a book, or check it out at the public library that isn't theft or piracy either. But again, that's all common sense and shouldn't need any pointing out. 

None of this addresses using an emulator with a legal copy of a game. 

What is being pirated if I buy a legal copy of a game and engineer my own emulator?  

Owning the console the game is released for is part of the full asking price. I explained this in another post above. 

P.S. I'll be gone for the weekend, so don't expect a reply to anything else that's posted until Monday. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 24 January 2020

Pyro as Bill said:

Pema, you know your stuff. Is there anything stopping MS from turning XB2 into a cheap gaming PC that has an option to run Windows?

It's virtually impossible to install Windows on the Xbox One because Microsoft has implemented a ton of hardware checks and changes.
The south bridge that connects to I/O is a custom chip and thus doesn't have any drivers... The North Bridge that is integrated upon the CPU is the same.

There is also a special controller that is responsible for fan speeds, temperature monitoring, LED incidators which has no Windows support... The UEFI Bios is also completely different which means it can't talk to Windows either via it's own abstraction layer.

So I would assume Microsoft would take a similar path with Xbox series X, remember Microsoft is building that console on the hardware backwards compatible foundations of it's predecessor, the Xbox One.

In saying that, the Xbox One does use a Windows kernel and is compatible with some Universal Windows Platform apps, Microsoft could in theory take that a step further next-gen.

Then again, modders can do some crazy stuff.

Cerebralbore101 said:

That's an excellent rebuttal of the idea that all emulation is piracy! Unfortunately, I'm not arguing for that idea, so this adds nothing to the conversation.

You did make a general statement and didn't specify any specifics. But fair enough.

Cerebralbore101 said:


Whether or not your region allows you to make backup copies is irrelevant. Same goes for an emulator allowing you to drop the disk into your PC's disk drive. If you think they are relevant, then please make an argument including those facts. Just throwing those two facts out there doesn't rebut anything on its own. Thanks.

Actually it is perfectly relevant, we need to recognize that the world isn't the USA sometimes.

Also just dropping an original disk into a disk drive circumvents the media duplication issue in some territory's.

Cerebralbore101 said:


An extreme minority of games allowing you to play LAN multiplayer doesn't invalidate my example. Even if we lived in a world where PS+ had just launched last year, and MH World was the only game, with full multiplayer, locked behind PS+, my example would still stand. The existence of things contrary to an example doesn't invalidate it. If I explain that a round road sign will roll downhill, and you object that some road signs are square, that rebuts nothing. In the case of a game that wasn't designed for LAN or offline multiplayer it is clearly piracy.

It was extremely common in the 7th gen era, even more so during the 6th gen on Xbox. Every Halo game for example has it (Except Halo 5).
And it does invalidate your example as you don't need PS+ or Xbox Live to play all console games online.

It's still not piracy even if modders got an alternative Xbox Live or Playstation Plus network online for you to connect your console to, you aren't duplicating software.
Reverse engineering/engineering/modding your own software solutions isn't piracy.

AMD starting building CPU's by reverse engineering Intel CPU's for example.

Cerebralbore101 said:


While BotW technically released on a last gen system, it is clearly far more of a current gen game. It was released for Wii U on the very day the system became obsolete (as in no longer the latest home console hardware from Nintendo). Nintendo clearly didn't plan on moving millions of Wii U units by releasing BotW onto it. Obviously the game was released with the intention of moving millions of Switches. The vast majority of players own and play the Switch version of the game. If BotW is a last gen game, then any animal with a single white spot must be an albino.

Breath of the Wild is a last gen game.
It's development revolved around the Wii U primarily, with all it's hardware limitations and nuances.

Cerebralbore101 said:

You can claim that game preservation starts instantly, but that is irrelevant. What is relevant is if you have any good reasons for why game preservation should start on release day of the game. In the case of Nintendo games, which sell millions of copies a year there is absolutely no need to attempt to preserve these games.  Hell, even with Panzer Dragoon Saga (A game which saw fewer than 20,000 U.S. copies printed), I couldn't manage to erase that game if I dedicated my life to it. Imagine trying to hunt down every last working copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga, and burning it. It just can't be done. There are working Atari and NES consoles out in the wild today, so the idea that we need emulators up and running on day 1 is ridiculous.

Just because you think it's irrelevant, doesn't make it irrelevant.

Games from release date aren't always the same games 6 months or 12 months down the track.

Take Overwatch for example, there are a ton more maps, more heroes... And an endless list of balance changes, I.E. Symmetra had the Shield generator ultimate at one point which is no longer present in the game and at one point multiple people could pick the same hero and you could pick any hero from any class as there was no role cue.

Games as a service tend to change more significantly over time or games that were marred with issues upon release like Mass Effect: Andromeda, preserving games is about preserving everything.

Those "variants" of the same game need to be preserved, that is why game preservation starts on the day a game is released, heck even before a game is released, often a games unfinished state can be leaked out.

Cerebralbore101 said:

Owning the console the game is released for is part of the full asking price. I explained this in another post above. 

P.S. I'll be gone for the weekend, so don't expect a reply to anything else that's posted until Monday. 

A bit of a false assumption to assume someone emulating the game doesn't own the game or the console it was intended for.
I emulate PS2 games, I own a PS2 and own PS2 games... In-fact I dumped my PS2's BIOS onto my PC and plugged it into my emulator to run my PS2 games straight from disk.

Perhaps you need to explain why emulation is piracy?







--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--