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Forums - Microsoft - MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

eva01beserk on 22 February 2020
Conina said:
eva01beserk said:

As you saw minecraft does look pretty good upscaled like that. But is still minecraft. Because its on a decade old game that was meant to play on everything back then. Now look at dreams and what can be done. Its by far on weaker hardware unable to do RTX and probably locked on 1080p 30fps due to hardware limitations. But the creation tools are vast. Now they are both world creation games. But look at whats possible on dreams and look at whats possible on minecraft. Should be obvious. The engenie on dreams is using ps4 as base so it has way better tools and still able to grow. Some games already look more impressive than what minecraft can make even with way more power hardware. 

Minecraft never had ambitions and was never supposed to be a flexible toolset to create games of different genres, it was always specialized to build blocks. Just like Super Mario Maker is specialized to build side scrolling platformers. Or RPG Maker is specialized to build games with old JRPG graphic style.

These were design choices, not a hardware limitations.

Better comparisons to Dreams are Microsoft's "Project Spark" (which failed miserably) or the Little Big Planet series.

That is exactly my point dude. An unfair comparison that no matter how much power is thrown at it, the base was not meant to be impressive. Pluss is really old by now. 



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goopy20 on 22 February 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:
goopy20 said:

You're absolutely correct. I just don't think that having the exact same game with just a boost in framerate/ resolution is the best way to make use of next gen hardware. I mean the jump in overall visual fidelity from something like Infamous on ps3 to infamous SS on the ps4 would never have been possible if they targeted 4k and 60fps. 

Just remember how far ahead pc games were when games like Crysis pushed the latest gpu's of it's time to it's limits at 900p/30fps and console games looked like Gameboy games in comparison. Wasn't that much cooler than just playing the exact same games as on consoles, but in native 4k and 120fps? And I'm sure the next Halo will take full advantage of the Series X but that will probably come out 3 to 5 years later. 

You keep circling back to Infamous... a game with next gen visuals but last gen design and gameplay. What happened to new experiences in physics and AI and blah blah only possible on next gen? 😆

It seems that visual flair is all you need to be satisfied with next gen. Why in the world would XSX not have you covered there?

There aren't that many launch titles to pick from, but feel free to replace infamous SS with Killzone SF, which also took a leap over everything we had seen on ps3 and runs on the same engine as Horizon Zero Dawn.

I never said those were great games, but that doesn't mean it will be the same thing again by default. I'm hoping they will have better ai, physics and overall better gameplay and not just glorified tech-demo's. We'll just have to wait and see. But whatever happens, at the very least the ps5 will have games that show the potential of next gen games that'll likely persuade gamers to migrate. With MS I honestly have no idea how they plan to persuade anyone to buy a $599 Series X if their exclusives look identical on the X1X and just lower res on the X1. 

And here's the Halo Infinite source

Project Scarlett's list of confirmed specs so far reveal a powerhouse. When it launches at the end of 2020 it'll pack a custom AMD Zen 2 processor that promises four times the power of the Xbox One X, supporting 8K resolution and 120fps gameplay. With that kit, it's clear that Halo Infinite will look and run better on Project Scarlett, but O'Connor was keen to stress that weaker specs don't mean the Xbox One release will run poorly by comparison.

"The Xbox One is not going to be a second-class citizen," he said. "We're building it so it plays and looks fantastic on Xbox One, and then everything else is plus-plus-plus, but we've got a few tricks up our sleeves that we're thinking about."

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/08/05/halo-infinites-xbox-one-version-wont-be-second-class-says-halo-boss



Mr Puggsly on 22 February 2020
Bandorr said:
Pemalite said:

Such as?

Perhaps my point got lost along the way. Upscaling the "base" game doesn't add new features.

FH2, and shadows of mordor were missing actual features of the game.

So if they took JUST those games and upscaled them the "newer" consoles would have been missing out on features. Like dynamic weather, or the nemesis system.

So my general concern is that if so much attention is spent on the "base" game they will miss out on adding "new" features that are exclusive to a "new" console.

For parity sake (specially since they have already said their plans are for1 or 2 years) they will make the same game. They will upscale it, but there will no exclusive features.

I think part of the problem with 7th gen and 8th gen sharing games was the RAM disparity. It went from 512MB to 5GB. I mean part of the reason Switch can handle 8th gen games is because it has 3.5GB or RAM to work with. My guess is 9th gen is moving to 12GB for games, certainly not a 10x jump again.

Anyway, why are people still talking about this fucking topic? MS might have the true 9th gen experiences planned for 2022, whatever that is supposed to be. Until then maybe MS and 3rd parties will make more impressive and ambitious games on X1 specs.



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Mr Puggsly on 22 February 2020
goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

You keep circling back to Infamous... a game with next gen visuals but last gen design and gameplay. What happened to new experiences in physics and AI and blah blah only possible on next gen? 😆

It seems that visual flair is all you need to be satisfied with next gen. Why in the world would XSX not have you covered there?

There aren't that many launch titles to pick from, but feel free to replace infamous SS with Killzone SF, which also took a leap over everything we had seen on ps3 and runs on the same engine as Horizon Zero Dawn.

I never said those were great games, but that doesn't mean it will be the same thing again by default. I'm hoping they will have better ai, physics and overall better gameplay and not just glorified tech-demo's. We'll just have to wait and see. But whatever happens, at the very least the ps5 will have games that show the potential of next gen games that'll likely persuade gamers to migrate. With MS I honestly have no idea how they plan to persuade anyone to buy a $599 Series X if their exclusives look identical on the X1X and just lower res on the X1. 

And here's the Halo Infinite source

Project Scarlett's list of confirmed specs so far reveal a powerhouse. When it launches at the end of 2020 it'll pack a custom AMD Zen 2 processor that promises four times the power of the Xbox One X, supporting 8K resolution and 120fps gameplay. With that kit, it's clear that Halo Infinite will look and run better on Project Scarlett, but O'Connor was keen to stress that weaker specs don't mean the Xbox One release will run poorly by comparison.

"The Xbox One is not going to be a second-class citizen," he said. "We're building it so it plays and looks fantastic on Xbox One, and then everything else is plus-plus-plus, but we've got a few tricks up our sleeves that we're thinking about."

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/08/05/halo-infinites-xbox-one-version-wont-be-second-class-says-halo-boss

Killzone SF might be using the same engine as Horizon, but that doesn't mean it's equally impressive. Not everything using UE4 is as impressive as Gears 5 or Days Gone for example.

Creating ambitious AAA games seems to take around 3-5 years. Some of the most ambitious games this gen are essentially meeting up with next gen.

Given the many delays of Sony AAA content, I am skeptical they will have great content that pushing PS5 at launch. We'll have to see what happens during E3, but I suspect we will see PS4 games that look better on PS5.

Again, that Halo Infinite quote is to quell concerns about the X1 version being bad. Which was suspected when it was announced as cross gen release.



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goopy20 on 22 February 2020
Mr Puggsly said:
Bandorr said:

Perhaps my point got lost along the way. Upscaling the "base" game doesn't add new features.

FH2, and shadows of mordor were missing actual features of the game.

So if they took JUST those games and upscaled them the "newer" consoles would have been missing out on features. Like dynamic weather, or the nemesis system.

So my general concern is that if so much attention is spent on the "base" game they will miss out on adding "new" features that are exclusive to a "new" console.

For parity sake (specially since they have already said their plans are for1 or 2 years) they will make the same game. They will upscale it, but there will no exclusive features.

I think part of the problem with 7th gen and 8th gen sharing games was the RAM disparity. It went from 512MB to 5GB. I mean part of the reason Switch can handle 8th gen games is because it has 3.5GB or RAM to work with. My guess is 9th gen is moving to 12GB for games, certainly not a 10x jump again.

Anyway, why are people still talking about this fucking topic? MS might have the true 9th gen experiences planned for 2022, whatever that is supposed to be. Until then maybe MS and 3rd parties will make more impressive and ambitious games on X1 specs.

I'm sure we'll see true next gen games on Series X by 2022, when MS realizes that mobile gamers and console gamers are two different things and nobody wants to play core games on their mobile. But by then Sony will have probably released some of their big bombs, have a 40m lead in install base and it'll be too little too late for the Series X to catch up.    



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LudicrousSpeed on 22 February 2020
goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

You keep circling back to Infamous... a game with next gen visuals but last gen design and gameplay. What happened to new experiences in physics and AI and blah blah only possible on next gen? 😆

It seems that visual flair is all you need to be satisfied with next gen. Why in the world would XSX not have you covered there?

There aren't that many launch titles to pick from, but feel free to replace infamous SS with Killzone SF, which also took a leap over everything we had seen on ps3 and runs on the same engine as Horizon Zero Dawn.

I never said those were great games, but that doesn't mean it will be the same thing again by default. I'm hoping they will have better ai, physics and overall better gameplay and not just glorified tech-demo's. We'll just have to wait and see. But whatever happens, at the very least the ps5 will have games that show the potential of next gen games that'll likely persuade gamers to migrate. With MS I honestly have no idea how they plan to persuade anyone to buy a $599 Series X if their exclusives look identical on the X1X and just lower res on the X1. 

And here's the Halo Infinite source

Project Scarlett's list of confirmed specs so far reveal a powerhouse. When it launches at the end of 2020 it'll pack a custom AMD Zen 2 processor that promises four times the power of the Xbox One X, supporting 8K resolution and 120fps gameplay. With that kit, it's clear that Halo Infinite will look and run better on Project Scarlett, but O'Connor was keen to stress that weaker specs don't mean the Xbox One release will run poorly by comparison.

"The Xbox One is not going to be a second-class citizen," he said. "We're building it so it plays and looks fantastic on Xbox One, and then everything else is plus-plus-plus, but we've got a few tricks up our sleeves that we're thinking about."

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/08/05/halo-infinites-xbox-one-version-wont-be-second-class-says-halo-boss

That is the same as the Wiki quote and the same interview I referenced above with other quotes. Again you claim to be optimistic but you’re cherry picking certain quotes from an interview and twisting them to have the worst meaning possible so that it supports your theory. From the same interview he says the XSX is the main platform and that developers always target the best hardware. Yet because he says the Xbone version will run fine, that must mean the Xbone is the base console or something. Give me a break 😆

And Killzone 7 didn’t push any new experiences on us at launch either. It was a standard shooter with pretty graphics. So you start the thread saying this is a bad thing for XSX because new gens should be all about big advancements in how games play thanks to experiences not possible on last gen with new AI and physics and other things not possible on older hardware. Now that you’ve been proven wrong by many users you’re backpedaling entirely to graphics. Which for all anyone knows, Infinite will look amazing. 



Conina on 22 February 2020
goopy20 said:

I'm sure we'll see true next gen games on Series X by 2022, when MS realizes that mobile gamers and console gamers are two different things and nobody wants to play core games on their mobile. But by then Sony will have probably released some of their big bombs, have a 40m lead in install base and it'll be too little too late for the Series X to catch up.    

I'm sure we'll see great true next gen games on Series X by 2022, when the developers had enough time to develop good games from ground up for that new hardware.

I'm also sure we'll see great true next gen games on PS5 by 2022, when the developers had enough time to develop good games from ground up for that new hardware.

I'm sure many "true next gen games" on PS5 (first and third parties) + XSX (third parties) will be half baked when they are released at launch (Nov./Dec. 2020) or even in 2021. Just for clarification: many <> all

I'm even pretty sure that most of the best 2020/2021 games on XSX and PS5 won't be "true next gen games"; they will be games with enough development time where development started long before the specs of PS5 and XSX were certain to the developers; most of them also available on XBO and/or PS4 (f.e. cross-gen games and "definitive versions" of The Last of Us 2, Ghosts of Tsushima, Death Standing,...)

Just a reminder... these were the best PS4 games of 2013 + 2014:

Which of these were "true next gen games" not possible on PS3 / 360?

Last edited by Conina - on 22 February 2020

goopy20 on 22 February 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:
goopy20 said:

There aren't that many launch titles to pick from, but feel free to replace infamous SS with Killzone SF, which also took a leap over everything we had seen on ps3 and runs on the same engine as Horizon Zero Dawn.

I never said those were great games, but that doesn't mean it will be the same thing again by default. I'm hoping they will have better ai, physics and overall better gameplay and not just glorified tech-demo's. We'll just have to wait and see. But whatever happens, at the very least the ps5 will have games that show the potential of next gen games that'll likely persuade gamers to migrate. With MS I honestly have no idea how they plan to persuade anyone to buy a $599 Series X if their exclusives look identical on the X1X and just lower res on the X1. 

And here's the Halo Infinite source

Project Scarlett's list of confirmed specs so far reveal a powerhouse. When it launches at the end of 2020 it'll pack a custom AMD Zen 2 processor that promises four times the power of the Xbox One X, supporting 8K resolution and 120fps gameplay. With that kit, it's clear that Halo Infinite will look and run better on Project Scarlett, but O'Connor was keen to stress that weaker specs don't mean the Xbox One release will run poorly by comparison.

"The Xbox One is not going to be a second-class citizen," he said. "We're building it so it plays and looks fantastic on Xbox One, and then everything else is plus-plus-plus, but we've got a few tricks up our sleeves that we're thinking about."

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/08/05/halo-infinites-xbox-one-version-wont-be-second-class-says-halo-boss

That is the same as the Wiki quote and the same interview I referenced above with other quotes. Again you claim to be optimistic but you’re cherry picking certain quotes from an interview and twisting them to have the worst meaning possible so that it supports your theory. From the same interview he says the XSX is the main platform and that developers always target the best hardware. Yet because he says the Xbone version will run fine, that must mean the Xbone is the base console or something. Give me a break 😆

And Killzone 7 didn’t push any new experiences on us at launch either. It was a standard shooter with pretty graphics. So you start the thread saying this is a bad thing for XSX because new gens should be all about big advancements in how games play thanks to experiences not possible on last gen with new AI and physics and other things not possible on older hardware. Now that you’ve been proven wrong by many users you’re backpedaling entirely to graphics. Which for all anyone knows, Infinite will look amazing. 

Well you can interpret it how you want. I'm just looking at what MS's doing and their shift in strategy. And all I know is that when Forza Horizon 2 was announced as a cross-gen title, and people were pissed because they thought it would hold the game back on Xone, MS quickly made a statement explaining that the 360 version was build by a different developer on older tech. They weren't reassuring 360 owners that Horizon 2 wouldn't be crap on current gen, they were reassuring people they got the full experience on next gen. With Halo they aren't doing that, instead they are talking about reaching a broader audience, non-gamers and not releasing any next gen exclusives for the coming 2 years. Take from that what you will, but I remain skeptical.

How am I supposed to know what developers will do with the new hardware? I can only hope that we will see better physics, ai and whatnot. Like I said a billion times, if the launch games will be any good game play wise depends on the developers. What we do know for sure is that they'll take a generational leap in visuals from what's possible today on ps4/xone. 



Mr Puggsly on 22 February 2020
goopy20 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I think part of the problem with 7th gen and 8th gen sharing games was the RAM disparity. It went from 512MB to 5GB. I mean part of the reason Switch can handle 8th gen games is because it has 3.5GB or RAM to work with. My guess is 9th gen is moving to 12GB for games, certainly not a 10x jump again.

Anyway, why are people still talking about this fucking topic? MS might have the true 9th gen experiences planned for 2022, whatever that is supposed to be. Until then maybe MS and 3rd parties will make more impressive and ambitious games on X1 specs.

I'm sure we'll see true next gen games on Series X by 2022, when MS realizes that mobile gamers and console gamers are two different things and nobody wants to play core games on their mobile. But by then Sony will have probably released some of their big bombs, have a 40m lead in install base and it'll be too little too late for the Series X to catch up.    

What are you babbling about? When was this ever about mobile gamers? Are you talking about xCloud?

You think PS5 is gonna have a 40m lead by 2022? 40 million units in maybe 14 months would be impressive, let alone a 40m lead.

What bombs will Sony have released by 2022? Only about 14 months into the console generation.

Everything you say is just nonsensical, illogical and wishful thinking in regard to Sony. I'm certain PS5 is gonna do well, but your expectations have nothing to do with trends.



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Mr Puggsly on 22 February 2020
goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

That is the same as the Wiki quote and the same interview I referenced above with other quotes. Again you claim to be optimistic but you’re cherry picking certain quotes from an interview and twisting them to have the worst meaning possible so that it supports your theory. From the same interview he says the XSX is the main platform and that developers always target the best hardware. Yet because he says the Xbone version will run fine, that must mean the Xbone is the base console or something. Give me a break 😆

And Killzone 7 didn’t push any new experiences on us at launch either. It was a standard shooter with pretty graphics. So you start the thread saying this is a bad thing for XSX because new gens should be all about big advancements in how games play thanks to experiences not possible on last gen with new AI and physics and other things not possible on older hardware. Now that you’ve been proven wrong by many users you’re backpedaling entirely to graphics. Which for all anyone knows, Infinite will look amazing. 

Well you can interpret it how you want. I'm just looking at what MS's doing and their shift in strategy. And all I know is that when Forza Horizon 2 was announced as a cross-gen title, and people were pissed because they thought it would hold the game back on Xone, MS quickly made a statement explaining that the 360 version was build by a different developer on older tech. They weren't reassuring 360 owners that Horizon 2 wouldn't be crap on current gen, they were reassuring people they got the full experience on next gen. With Halo they aren't doing that, instead they are talking about reaching a broader audience, non-gamers and not releasing any next gen exclusives for the coming 2 years. Take from that what you will, but I remain skeptical.

How am I supposed to know what developers will do with the new hardware? I can only hope that we will see better physics, ai and whatnot. Like I said a billion times, if the launch games will be any good game play wise depends on the developers. What we do know for sure is that they'll take a generational leap in visuals from what's possible today on ps4/xone. 

Nope, you're changing what people actually thought about 7th and 8th cross gen titles.

While cross gen games don't look amazing on 8th gen specs for various reasons, they still look and perform significantly better on 8th gen. We didn't necessarily consider 8th gen was being held back, we just assumed 7th gen versions would be inferior visually, in performance and maybe lacking features which was sometimes the case.

Halo Infinite is a different story. It was always promised to be a X1 release and people became concerned 9th gen was now the focus. Maybe you would prefer if MS said X1 is gonna have a trash port, but is that what X1 owners want to hear? Use your head, they're assuring X1 users they aren't getting screwed.

"How am I supposed to know what developers will do with the new hardware?" Exactly. Stop speaking like you know exactly what MS is planning.



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