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Forums - Microsoft - MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

I’m optimistic that the Series X version will be more then mere FPS and resolution boosts. The little leaks we find here and there regarding next gen ray tracing and audio help the case. 

But again there’s still the main point that neither console will launch with their best. They only ever give us a taste of the potential. MS and Sony doing different things but both come to the same conclusion. You can never have had Halo 4 release in 2005 nor Last of Us be a PS3 launch title. Never happened before and I see no reason it will happen in the future.

I don't want to burst your bubble but we have this confirmed already by 343 themselves... Yes, if they were making 2 different games, with features missing in current gen consoles like we've seen with Horizon 2, it would be a different story. But they aren't talking about ports on different platforms, they are talking about scaling and using Xone as the base console, not the Series X. It's just like Gears 5, which does look better on X1X and pc, but it's still the exact same game on all platforms, where it's designed so the Xone version looks and plays identical. This is exactly what they're doing with Halo Infinite and their other cross gen exclusives for the coming years.

It something completely different than the next gen jump from Infamous 2 to Infamous SS or RDR1 to RDR2, where core game elements like the geometry got a complete overhaul. The only way they could port RDR2 over to the ps3/360 is by scaling it down to such a level, that it'll end up looking exactly like RDR 1.

Also, we have seen plenty of launch game that push next gen consoles. Ryze looked pretty great and something like the Order 1886 is still one of the best looking games out there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O964TILTZeU. The only thing I can agree on is that launch games usually don't have the best gameplay, probably because they tend to focus too much on showcasing the new tech. 

The Order and Ryse were just that. A taste. Glorified tech demos that didn’t offer critical acclaim on its merits. Ultimately both companies will underdeliver at launch, just like literally every gen before.  

As a diehard Halo fan, I’m far more concerned with the game being great after Halo 5. And the cutting edge Slipspace Engine will go a long way to make Infinite look like no Halo before it. Still optimistic Halo will have features that won’t be on lesser hardware and fact is we won’t know until we see for ourselves. I suggest you worry less about what Xbox is doing and hope that Sony has something that can compete at launch. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 21 February 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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Bandorr said:

Some things can't be done with upscaling.

Such as?




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

sales2099 said:
goopy20 said:

I don't want to burst your bubble but we have this confirmed already by 343 themselves... Yes, if they were making 2 different games, with features missing in current gen consoles like we've seen with Horizon 2, it would be a different story. But they aren't talking about ports on different platforms, they are talking about scaling and using Xone as the base console, not the Series X. It's just like Gears 5, which does look better on X1X and pc, but it's still the exact same game on all platforms, where it's designed so the Xone version looks and plays identical. This is exactly what they're doing with Halo Infinite and their other cross gen exclusives for the coming years.

It something completely different than the next gen jump from Infamous 2 to Infamous SS or RDR1 to RDR2, where core game elements like the geometry got a complete overhaul. The only way they could port RDR2 over to the ps3/360 is by scaling it down to such a level, that it'll end up looking exactly like RDR 1.

Also, we have seen plenty of launch game that push next gen consoles. Ryze looked pretty great and something like the Order 1886 is still one of the best looking games out there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O964TILTZeU. The only thing I can agree on is that launch games usually don't have the best gameplay, probably because they tend to focus too much on showcasing the new tech. 

The Order and Ryse were just that. A taste. Glorified tech demos that didn’t offer critical acclaim on its merits. Ultimately both companies will underdeliver at launch, just like literally every gen before.  

As a diehard Halo fan, I’m far more concerned with the game being great after Halo 5. And the cutting edge Slipspace Engine will go a long way to make Infinite look like no Halo before it. Still optimistic Halo will have features that won’t be on lesser hardware and fact is we won’t know until we see for ourselves. I suggest you worry less about what Xbox is doing and hope that Sony has something that can compete at launch. 

Well, we will have to wait and see if the launch titles will be a disappointment. I surely hope not and I think Sony will drop some bombs early to keep their momentum going. In the end I just want to see great next games and I don't really care if that's on ps5 or Series X, but I got a feeling you would be disappointed if the ps5 launch titles do make full use of things like the SSD tech, have better ai, physics, a generational boost in overall visual fidelity, and do turn out to be actual good games. 

From what we've seen, the slipstream engine does look cutting edge and is designed to scale with next gen hardware. However, an engine is just a tool to drive the hardware and how much of the engine's capabilities they can use totally depends on the base console they're targeting. So yes, if Halo Infinite runs at 540p and drops to 15fps on Xone, it will probably look amazing on Series X. But from what 343 studios are saying, Xone will be the base console and they will likely target 1080p, 30fps (maybe even 60fps like in Halo 5) on Xone with visual parity across all platforms. This simply limits what 343 can do with their new engine on Series X. And who knows, but maybe it's the reason why both the creative director and lead producer of 343 studios quit a couple of months ago: https://wccftech.com/halo-infinite-lead-producer-leaves-343-industries/ or why Rod Fergusson quit Gears and went to Blizzard. 

With the way Phil Spencer is talking about scaling on pc, I think Gears 5 is currently the best example of what they're aiming for as it does take good advantage of the strengths of all platforms. It's just a more subtle and strange approach to kick off a new console generation. And imo, not the best way to showcase what the Series X is capable off and persuade people to buy one. We will see at E3, but I got a feeling that the Series X will just be a small part of their presentation and they will talk a lot more about cloud gaming, putting the gamer at the center instead of the devices, and gaming on a ton of different devices. And it's going to be helluva confusing for Xbox fans who just want a next gen console.

Tokyo Game Show 2020 to Feature Next Generation Consoles and Cloud Gaming 

The event will focus on the full-fledged launch of cloud gaming and its advanced gaming environment such as the start of 5G services for commercial use, and will boost the unprecedented gaming experience brought by new platforms. Moreover, TGS2020 will host the area where visitors can explore “new frontiers” of games through crossing over with education, fashion, arts and other industries.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/442530/tokyo-game-show-2020-to-feature-next-generation-consoles-and-cloud-gaming/

I dunno guys but this sounds boring as shit and Cloud gaming is the last thing I want to hear about at the dawn of a new console generation.

Last edited by goopy20 - on 22 February 2020

goopy20 said:

Well, we will have to wait and see if the launch titles will be a disappointment. I surely hope not and I think Sony will drop some bombs early to keep their momentum going. In the end I just want to see great next games and I don't really care if that's on ps5 or Series X, but I got a feeling you would be disappointed if the ps5 launch titles do make full use of things like the SSD tech, have better ai, physics, a generational boost in overall visual fidelity, and do turn out to be actual good games. 

From what we've seen, the slipstream engine does look cutting edge and is designed to scale with next gen hardware. However, an engine is just a tool to drive the hardware and how much of the engine's capabilities they can use totally depends on the base console they're targeting. So yes, if Halo Infinite runs at 540p and drops to 15fps on Xone, it will probably look amazing on Series X. But from what 343 studios are saying, Xone will be the base console and they will likely target 1080p, 30fps (maybe even 60fps like in Halo 5) on Xone with visual parity across all platforms. This simply limits what 343 can do with their new engine on Series X. And who knows, but maybe it's the reason why both the creative director and lead producer of 343 studios quit a couple of months ago: https://wccftech.com/halo-infinite-lead-producer-leaves-343-industries/ or why Rod Fergusson quit Gears and went to Blizzard. 

With the way Phil Spencer is talking about scaling on pc, I think Gears 5 is currently the best example of what they're aiming for as it does take good advantage of the strengths of all platforms. It's just a more subtle and strange approach to kick off a new console generation. And imo, not the best way to showcase what the Series X is capable off and persuade people to buy one. We will see at E3, but I got a feeling that the Series X will just be a small part of their presentation and they will talk a lot more about cloud gaming, putting the gamer at the center instead of the devices, and gaming on a ton of different devices. And it's going to be helluva confusing for Xbox fans who just want a next gen console.

Tokyo Game Show 2020 to Feature Next Generation Consoles and Cloud Gaming 

The event will focus on the full-fledged launch of cloud gaming and its advanced gaming environment such as the start of 5G services for commercial use, and will boost the unprecedented gaming experience brought by new platforms. Moreover, TGS2020 will host the area where visitors can explore “new frontiers” of games through crossing over with education, fashion, arts and other industries.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/442530/tokyo-game-show-2020-to-feature-next-generation-consoles-and-cloud-gaming/

I dunno guys but this sounds boring as shit and Cloud gaming is the last thing I want to hear about at the dawn of a new console generation.

Can I add something. 

Series X might not have games being made from the ground up at launch however lets look at it closely.

Halo Infinite Running on hardware below.

Xbox One - 1080p / 30 FPS

Xbox One X - 4k / 30 FPS

Series X - 4k / 60 FPS / Ray Tracing / Improved Audio etc

Now if you look at the extra hardware power the Series X has over the X and Base console than there is no reason why they cannot hit those levels. 4k/60 with Ray Tracing will be night and day difference. PC games are always held back by console hardware yet it still doesn't stop PC gamers investing $1000s into GPUs that can achieve way higher results. Series X will be no different, if you want the best experience than the Series X or PC will grant you that, if you are happy with 1080p and 30 frames than the base Xbox will suit those gamers fine. Also remember that after Halo Infinite, the next Halo wont arrive at least for another couple of years which than will be built from the ground up on Series X.



Azzanation said:
goopy20 said:

Well, we will have to wait and see if the launch titles will be a disappointment. I surely hope not and I think Sony will drop some bombs early to keep their momentum going. In the end I just want to see great next games and I don't really care if that's on ps5 or Series X, but I got a feeling you would be disappointed if the ps5 launch titles do make full use of things like the SSD tech, have better ai, physics, a generational boost in overall visual fidelity, and do turn out to be actual good games. 

From what we've seen, the slipstream engine does look cutting edge and is designed to scale with next gen hardware. However, an engine is just a tool to drive the hardware and how much of the engine's capabilities they can use totally depends on the base console they're targeting. So yes, if Halo Infinite runs at 540p and drops to 15fps on Xone, it will probably look amazing on Series X. But from what 343 studios are saying, Xone will be the base console and they will likely target 1080p, 30fps (maybe even 60fps like in Halo 5) on Xone with visual parity across all platforms. This simply limits what 343 can do with their new engine on Series X. And who knows, but maybe it's the reason why both the creative director and lead producer of 343 studios quit a couple of months ago: https://wccftech.com/halo-infinite-lead-producer-leaves-343-industries/ or why Rod Fergusson quit Gears and went to Blizzard. 

With the way Phil Spencer is talking about scaling on pc, I think Gears 5 is currently the best example of what they're aiming for as it does take good advantage of the strengths of all platforms. It's just a more subtle and strange approach to kick off a new console generation. And imo, not the best way to showcase what the Series X is capable off and persuade people to buy one. We will see at E3, but I got a feeling that the Series X will just be a small part of their presentation and they will talk a lot more about cloud gaming, putting the gamer at the center instead of the devices, and gaming on a ton of different devices. And it's going to be helluva confusing for Xbox fans who just want a next gen console.

Tokyo Game Show 2020 to Feature Next Generation Consoles and Cloud Gaming 

The event will focus on the full-fledged launch of cloud gaming and its advanced gaming environment such as the start of 5G services for commercial use, and will boost the unprecedented gaming experience brought by new platforms. Moreover, TGS2020 will host the area where visitors can explore “new frontiers” of games through crossing over with education, fashion, arts and other industries.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/442530/tokyo-game-show-2020-to-feature-next-generation-consoles-and-cloud-gaming/

I dunno guys but this sounds boring as shit and Cloud gaming is the last thing I want to hear about at the dawn of a new console generation.

Can I add something. 

Series X might not have games being made from the ground up at launch however lets look at it closely.

Halo Infinite Running on hardware below.

Xbox One - 1080p / 30 FPS

Xbox One X - 4k / 30 FPS

Series X - 4k / 60 FPS / Ray Tracing / Improved Audio etc

Now if you look at the extra hardware power the Series X has over the X and Base console than there is no reason why they cannot hit those levels. 4k/60 with Ray Tracing will be night and day difference. PC games are always held back by console hardware yet it still doesn't stop PC gamers investing $1000s into GPUs that can achieve way higher results. Series X will be no different, if you want the best experience than the Series X or PC will grant you that, if you are happy with 1080p and 30 frames than the base Xbox will suit those gamers fine. Also remember that after Halo Infinite, the next Halo wont arrive at least for another couple of years which than will be built from the ground up on Series X.

You're absolutely correct. I just don't think that having the exact same game with just a boost in framerate/ resolution is the best way to make use of next gen hardware. I mean the jump in overall visual fidelity from something like Infamous on ps3 to infamous SS on the ps4 would never have been possible if they targeted 4k and 60fps. 

Just remember how far ahead pc games were when games like Crysis pushed the latest gpu's of it's time to it's limits at 900p/30fps and console games looked like Gameboy games in comparison. Wasn't that much cooler than just playing the exact same games as on consoles, but in native 4k and 120fps? And I'm sure the next Halo will take full advantage of the Series X but that will probably come out 3 to 5 years later. 

Last edited by goopy20 - on 22 February 2020

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Azzanation said:
goopy20 said:

Well, we will have to wait and see if the launch titles will be a disappointment. I surely hope not and I think Sony will drop some bombs early to keep their momentum going. In the end I just want to see great next games and I don't really care if that's on ps5 or Series X, but I got a feeling you would be disappointed if the ps5 launch titles do make full use of things like the SSD tech, have better ai, physics, a generational boost in overall visual fidelity, and do turn out to be actual good games. 

From what we've seen, the slipstream engine does look cutting edge and is designed to scale with next gen hardware. However, an engine is just a tool to drive the hardware and how much of the engine's capabilities they can use totally depends on the base console they're targeting. So yes, if Halo Infinite runs at 540p and drops to 15fps on Xone, it will probably look amazing on Series X. But from what 343 studios are saying, Xone will be the base console and they will likely target 1080p, 30fps (maybe even 60fps like in Halo 5) on Xone with visual parity across all platforms. This simply limits what 343 can do with their new engine on Series X. And who knows, but maybe it's the reason why both the creative director and lead producer of 343 studios quit a couple of months ago: https://wccftech.com/halo-infinite-lead-producer-leaves-343-industries/ or why Rod Fergusson quit Gears and went to Blizzard. 

With the way Phil Spencer is talking about scaling on pc, I think Gears 5 is currently the best example of what they're aiming for as it does take good advantage of the strengths of all platforms. It's just a more subtle and strange approach to kick off a new console generation. And imo, not the best way to showcase what the Series X is capable off and persuade people to buy one. We will see at E3, but I got a feeling that the Series X will just be a small part of their presentation and they will talk a lot more about cloud gaming, putting the gamer at the center instead of the devices, and gaming on a ton of different devices. And it's going to be helluva confusing for Xbox fans who just want a next gen console.

Tokyo Game Show 2020 to Feature Next Generation Consoles and Cloud Gaming 

The event will focus on the full-fledged launch of cloud gaming and its advanced gaming environment such as the start of 5G services for commercial use, and will boost the unprecedented gaming experience brought by new platforms. Moreover, TGS2020 will host the area where visitors can explore “new frontiers” of games through crossing over with education, fashion, arts and other industries.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/442530/tokyo-game-show-2020-to-feature-next-generation-consoles-and-cloud-gaming/

I dunno guys but this sounds boring as shit and Cloud gaming is the last thing I want to hear about at the dawn of a new console generation.

Can I add something. 

Series X might not have games being made from the ground up at launch however lets look at it closely.

Halo Infinite Running on hardware below.

Xbox One - 1080p / 30 FPS

Xbox One X - 4k / 30 FPS

Series X - 4k / 60 FPS / Ray Tracing / Improved Audio etc

Now if you look at the extra hardware power the Series X has over the X and Base console than there is no reason why they cannot hit those levels. 4k/60 with Ray Tracing will be night and day difference. PC games are always held back by console hardware yet it still doesn't stop PC gamers investing $1000s into GPUs that can achieve way higher results. Series X will be no different, if you want the best experience than the Series X or PC will grant you that, if you are happy with 1080p and 30 frames than the base Xbox will suit those gamers fine. Also remember that after Halo Infinite, the next Halo wont arrive at least for another couple of years which than will be built from the ground up on Series X.

PC games are not held back by consoles. PC games are being held back by the low number of PC gamers with high end rigs, or even medium level. You could say that what pc gamers get is a port of the console games wich have the vast majority of players. And a port is just a port. You can upscale all you want but its still the same game. 

PS. I know its not just a port as games are made on pc, but you know what im trying to say. The focus will always be the vast majority of possible buyers of the game, not the 1% who can shell out a couple grand on a pc. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

The Order and Ryse were just that. A taste. Glorified tech demos that didn’t offer critical acclaim on its merits. Ultimately both companies will underdeliver at launch, just like literally every gen before.  

As a diehard Halo fan, I’m far more concerned with the game being great after Halo 5. And the cutting edge Slipspace Engine will go a long way to make Infinite look like no Halo before it. Still optimistic Halo will have features that won’t be on lesser hardware and fact is we won’t know until we see for ourselves. I suggest you worry less about what Xbox is doing and hope that Sony has something that can compete at launch. 

Well, we will have to wait and see if the launch titles will be a disappointment. I surely hope not and I think Sony will drop some bombs early to keep their momentum going. In the end I just want to see great next games and I don't really care if that's on ps5 or Series X, but I got a feeling you would be disappointed if the ps5 launch titles do make full use of things like the SSD tech, have better ai, physics, a generational boost in overall visual fidelity, and do turn out to be actual good games. 

From what we've seen, the slipstream engine does look cutting edge and is designed to scale with next gen hardware. However, an engine is just a tool to drive the hardware and how much of the engine's capabilities they can use totally depends on the base console they're targeting. So yes, if Halo Infinite runs at 540p and drops to 15fps on Xone, it will probably look amazing on Series X. But from what 343 studios are saying, Xone will be the base console and they will likely target 1080p, 30fps (maybe even 60fps like in Halo 5) on Xone with visual parity across all platforms. This simply limits what 343 can do with their new engine on Series X. And who knows, but maybe it's the reason why both the creative director and lead producer of 343 studios quit a couple of months ago: https://wccftech.com/halo-infinite-lead-producer-leaves-343-industries/ or why Rod Fergusson quit Gears and went to Blizzard. 

With the way Phil Spencer is talking about scaling on pc, I think Gears 5 is currently the best example of what they're aiming for as it does take good advantage of the strengths of all platforms. It's just a more subtle and strange approach to kick off a new console generation. And imo, not the best way to showcase what the Series X is capable off and persuade people to buy one. We will see at E3, but I got a feeling that the Series X will just be a small part of their presentation and they will talk a lot more about cloud gaming, putting the gamer at the center instead of the devices, and gaming on a ton of different devices. And it's going to be helluva confusing for Xbox fans who just want a next gen console.

Tokyo Game Show 2020 to Feature Next Generation Consoles and Cloud Gaming 

The event will focus on the full-fledged launch of cloud gaming and its advanced gaming environment such as the start of 5G services for commercial use, and will boost the unprecedented gaming experience brought by new platforms. Moreover, TGS2020 will host the area where visitors can explore “new frontiers” of games through crossing over with education, fashion, arts and other industries.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/442530/tokyo-game-show-2020-to-feature-next-generation-consoles-and-cloud-gaming/

I dunno guys but this sounds boring as shit and Cloud gaming is the last thing I want to hear about at the dawn of a new console generation.

Most of this is nonsense irrelevant to the discussion or is just baseless speculation on your part, but when you say “according to what 343 is saying, Xbone is the base console”, exactly what are you basing this on? Can you provide a source? 

Is it just that Wiki quote you keep referencing? Because if you watch that video that the quote is actually from, the guy (I think it’s Stinkles from Reeeeeeesetera?) says:

XSX is the special class citizen of development

Devs are always pushing for the best possible hardware target

Care is being given to make sure the Xbone version runs and looks good

None of this makes it seem as if Xbone is the base hardware or that they’re making an Xbone game and just checking some boxes to upgrade textures. 



goopy20 said:
Azzanation said:

Can I add something. 

Series X might not have games being made from the ground up at launch however lets look at it closely.

Halo Infinite Running on hardware below.

Xbox One - 1080p / 30 FPS

Xbox One X - 4k / 30 FPS

Series X - 4k / 60 FPS / Ray Tracing / Improved Audio etc

Now if you look at the extra hardware power the Series X has over the X and Base console than there is no reason why they cannot hit those levels. 4k/60 with Ray Tracing will be night and day difference. PC games are always held back by console hardware yet it still doesn't stop PC gamers investing $1000s into GPUs that can achieve way higher results. Series X will be no different, if you want the best experience than the Series X or PC will grant you that, if you are happy with 1080p and 30 frames than the base Xbox will suit those gamers fine. Also remember that after Halo Infinite, the next Halo wont arrive at least for another couple of years which than will be built from the ground up on Series X.

You're absolutely correct. I just don't think that having the exact same game with just a boost in framerate/ resolution is the best way to make use of next gen hardware. I mean the jump in overall visual fidelity from something like Infamous on ps3 to infamous SS on the ps4 would never have been possible if they targeted 4k and 60fps. 

Just remember how far ahead pc games were when games like Crysis pushed the latest gpu's of it's time to it's limits at 900p/30fps and console games looked like Gameboy games in comparison. Wasn't that much cooler than just playing the exact same games as on consoles, but in native 4k and 120fps? And I'm sure the next Halo will take full advantage of the Series X but that will probably come out 3 to 5 years later. 

You keep circling back to Infamous... a game with next gen visuals but last gen design and gameplay. What happened to new experiences in physics and AI and blah blah only possible on next gen? 😆

It seems that visual flair is all you need to be satisfied with next gen. Why in the world would XSX not have you covered there?



Pemalite said:
Bandorr said:

Some things can't be done with upscaling.

Such as?

This is upscaling on minecraft with raytracing and all the bells and wisels, 4k and what ever.

This are creations on dreams on ps4, no ray traycing and made by guys who never touched a creation tool before....probably.

As you saw minecraft does look pretty good upscaled like that. But is still minecraft. Because its on a decade old game that was meant to play on everything back then. Now look at dreams and what can be done. Its by far on weaker hardware unable to do RTX and probably locked on 1080p 30fps due to hardware limitations. But the creation tools are vast. Now they are both world creation games. But look at whats possible on dreams and look at whats possible on minecraft. Should be obvious. The engenie on dreams is using ps4 as base so it has way better tools and still able to grow. Some games already look more impressive than what minecraft can make even with way more power hardware. 

Just digital foundry praising dreams a bit more.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:

As you saw minecraft does look pretty good upscaled like that. But is still minecraft. Because its on a decade old game that was meant to play on everything back then. Now look at dreams and what can be done. Its by far on weaker hardware unable to do RTX and probably locked on 1080p 30fps due to hardware limitations. But the creation tools are vast. Now they are both world creation games. But look at whats possible on dreams and look at whats possible on minecraft. Should be obvious. The engenie on dreams is using ps4 as base so it has way better tools and still able to grow. Some games already look more impressive than what minecraft can make even with way more power hardware. 

Minecraft never had ambitions and was never supposed to be a flexible toolset to create games of different genres, it was always specialized to build blocks. Just like Super Mario Maker is specialized to build side scrolling platformers. Or RPG Maker is specialized to build games with old JRPG graphic style.

These were design choices, not a hardware limitations.

Better comparisons to Dreams are Microsoft's "Project Spark" (which failed miserably) or the Little Big Planet series.