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Forums - Microsoft - MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

Mr Puggsly on 10 February 2020
eva01beserk said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Frankly, many games will be cross gen in 2020 and 2021. Some of these cross gen games may even utilize the boost in GPU power, CPU power, ray tracing and SSD in significant ways. PC is already utilizing these spec disparities by pushing higher quality assets and graphics settings (like ray tracing) while creating acceptable 8th gen console ports.

Just because a game is on newer specs doesn't mean developers are aiming to push AI and every other aspect of game design. This is just an assumption people keep making. Developers can create better AI with existing specs if they desired. There are even examples of AI being impressive on 6th gen specs.

Did MS say Halo Infinite will only be a "bit" better on Series X? Or did you just pull that out of your ass? If anything, MS has simply said the X1 version will be good. You also have to consider the PC version was always considered during development, therefore there are assets and visual settings being created for specs that are much better than X1. For example, Forza Horizon 3/4 and Gears 4/5 look considerably better on PC.

A Forza Horizon 2 scenario is seemingly unlikely for X1 and Series X cross gen titles. However a 3rd party studio could still optimize the X1 versions to perform better on the inferior specs. Much like Switch ports are often handled by a different studio.

You don't know anything about what PS5 is launching with, that's why you sound ridiculous. You just have assumptions they will be huge sequels that hit PS5's launch and they will virtually utilize PS5's full potential.

You also assume MS will always design games around X1 and lower end PCs. You have no reason to believe this, its just assumptions you keep pushing. Your assumptions are very lofty for Sony at launch, but Series X content will only be ports of games built for X1. You've turned X1's support in 2021 into something that will last the entire 9th gen based on nothing.

In a nutshell, your assumptions are silly bias.

But arent thouse improvements just things you adjust on a slider? nothing game braking like AI, more enemys or levels previously unplayable on base hardware. Technically a graphical bump.

Just because they have better specs at their disposal doesn't mean average game design will change drastically.

The X1 and PS4 are already capable of more advanced AI or putting more enemies in levels than 7th gen. They often already do large scale levels and open worlds.

I think the issue is game design, developers have just kept creating more of the same because their focus is the core gameplay, pushing graphics and story telling. Not necessarily creating something experimental or unique.

Many of the 8th gen games we've seen are technically experiences that could have been created on 7th gen with lower quality visuals. Not all, but most.



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eva01beserk on 10 February 2020
Mr Puggsly said:
eva01beserk said:

But arent thouse improvements just things you adjust on a slider? nothing game braking like AI, more enemys or levels previously unplayable on base hardware. Technically a graphical bump.

Just because they have better specs at their disposal doesn't mean average game design will change drastically.

The X1 and PS4 are already capable of more advanced AI or putting more enemies in levels than 7th gen. They often already do large scale levels and open worlds.

I think the issue is game design, developers have just kept creating more of the same because their focus is the core gameplay, pushing graphics and story telling. Not necessarily creating something experimental or unique.

Many of the 8th gen games we've seen are technically experiences that could have been created on 7th gen with lower quality visuals. Not all, but most.

So if you can say that, then how can you say halo infinite would be any diferent on series x than on x1? Specially when a higher up said it would first be made on x1 and then enhaced for series x. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Mr Puggsly on 10 February 2020
goopy20 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Frankly, many games will be cross gen in 2020 and 2021. Some of these cross gen games may even utilize the boost in GPU power, CPU power, ray tracing and SSD in significant ways. PC is already utilizing these spec disparities by pushing higher quality assets and graphics settings (like ray tracing) while creating acceptable 8th gen console ports.

Just because a game is on newer specs doesn't mean developers are aiming to push AI and every other aspect of game design. This is just an assumption people keep making. Developers can create better AI with existing specs if they desired. There are even examples of AI being impressive on 6th gen specs.

Did MS say Halo Infinite will only be a "bit" better on Series X? Or did you just pull that out of your ass? If anything, MS has simply said the X1 version will be good. You also have to consider the PC version was always considered during development, therefore there are assets and visual settings being created for specs that are much better than X1. For example, Forza Horizon 3/4 and Gears 4/5 look considerably better on PC.

A Forza Horizon 2 scenario is seemingly unlikely for X1 and Series X cross gen titles. However a 3rd party studio could still optimize the X1 versions to perform better on the inferior specs. Much like Switch ports are often handled by a different studio.

You don't know anything about what PS5 is launching with, that's why you sound ridiculous. You just have assumptions they will be huge sequels that hit PS5's launch and they will virtually utilize PS5's full potential.

You also assume MS will always design games around X1 and lower end PCs. You have no reason to believe this, its just assumptions you keep pushing. Your assumptions are very lofty for Sony at launch, but Series X content will only be ports of games built for X1. You've turned X1's support in 2021 into something that will last the entire 9th gen based on nothing.

In a nutshell, your assumptions are silly bias.

Everything I'm saying is based on rumors and statements made by MS. Allegedly someone leaked the ps5 exclusive launch titles which include: A new Sci-fi ip from ND, GT7, a new ip from SM, FF16, Godfall, a Demon Souls remake and MLB the Show 2021. And while not launch titles, they will also touch on Spiderman 2 and Horizon Zeo Dawn 2.   

Now, of course, these are just rumors and should be taken with a mountain of salt. However, I do believe there could be some truth to it. While with MS we know for a fact that they are focusing on cross gen titles for the next 2 years and that their flagship exclusives will be made with the X1 as the base platform. And no, I didn't pull Halo Infinite being just a bit better on Series X, out of my ass.  

"The game will be released alongside a new Xbox One-compatible console known as Xbox Series X. Although initially implicated to be exclusive to the console, the franchise's development director Frank O'Connor stated in August 2019 that Infinite was being developed as an Xbox One title and that they were "building it so it plays and looks fantastic" on the platform, but suggested that it would have enhancements when played on Xbox Series X."

I'm sure the cross gen games will look and run better on the Series X, just like they do on pc. But there's still a big difference between a game that's build to push the limitations of next gen consoles, running on entirely new engines. Or a current gen game that's designed to provide the exact same gameplay experience across all platforms (ai, physics, geometry, level design etc.), with just a cosmetic bump in graphics settings and a higher resolution on next gen consoles.

No, you're making assumptions. MS has said little to nothing of what you keep pushing.

The rumors of launch titles is not worth discussing. We don't know what is true or how those games will actually push PS5. Although, GT7 is likely going to recycle the engine used on PS4. A Demon's Soul remake wouldn't necessarily be an incredibly ambitious PS5 game. MLB The Show is likely going to be cross gen and eventually multiplat with Switch included. Those are actually safe assumptions I made there.

A mountain of salt? I think you mean grain of salt. As in these rumors have little if any validity.

The Halo Infinite quote was designed to quell concerns of the X1 version being bad. The engine footage looked ambitious for the limited specs of X1, especially if 60 fps remains a focus. What you pulled out of your ass was Series X will be, "a bit better." Even with X1 as the lead, they can still push effects, assets and performance to be more than a bit better. Either way, we don't really know anything.

Engines can scale, so they could support 8th gen and still do much more impressive things on 9th gen. Unreal Engine 3 comes to mind, the few games using it in the 8th gen look very impressive. Meanwhile Unreal Engine 4 scales very well from mobile device to ambitious AAA console games.

It's also worth noting MS can still create the most ambitious games they've ever done while still supporting the X1. Has MS reached the limits of what X1 can push in, "ai, physics, geometry, level design etc." I would argue no. More importantly, some of those aspects can certainly be reduced in overhead for cross gen releases. Especially the amount of detail put into geometry and even level design. The AI and physics aspects could also be tweaked, but also depends if developers really attempt to push that in such a way that's only possible in next gen.



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Mr Puggsly on 10 February 2020
eva01beserk said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Just because they have better specs at their disposal doesn't mean average game design will change drastically.

The X1 and PS4 are already capable of more advanced AI or putting more enemies in levels than 7th gen. They often already do large scale levels and open worlds.

I think the issue is game design, developers have just kept creating more of the same because their focus is the core gameplay, pushing graphics and story telling. Not necessarily creating something experimental or unique.

Many of the 8th gen games we've seen are technically experiences that could have been created on 7th gen with lower quality visuals. Not all, but most.

So if you can say that, then how can you say halo infinite would be any diferent on series x than on x1? Specially when a higher up said it would first be made on x1 and then enhaced for series x. 

I haven't said Halo Infinite will be different on Series X, certainly not at its core.

Gears 5 for example was built around X1. Yet the PC version using "insane" settings looks significantly better, it takes advantage of the vastly superior PC hardware even with X1 being a focus. Essentially you have a product that works great on X1, but the intended presentation is on PC. Some effects on X1 versions are essentially missing or just look poor in comparison. I think DF said the game almost uses 7-8GB of VRAM at highest settings, so a Series X version of Gears 5 will be significant visual upgrade with the work already being completed at launch.

Taking that into consideration, the Series X and PC versions of Halo Infinite may look more than, "a bit better."

Something like Sunset Overdrive was truly built just for the X1. The PC version is basically just a performance and resolution boost. Hence, games can be built with X1 in mind and still push some aspects well beyond what was intended for X1.

It's also worth noting just because Switch supports some 8th gen games, doesn't mean they just look a bit better on 8th gen consoles.

EDIT: Lastly, I just remembered Crackdown 3 actually adjusts the amount of activity in the streets based on hardware being used. I think that can be seen as gameplay being tweaked for inferior specs.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 10 February 2020

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sales2099 on 10 February 2020
goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

This is the second time you keep going on while also ignoring my direct replies to you. If you can’t make a comeback to me then you shouldn’t be here saying the same thing to other people who didn’t out-debate you yet. 

Saying the games will have zero improvements in graphics, textures, lighting, draw distance, enemy AI, etc....and only seem to think resolution and FPS are affected. We have to see direct video comparisons to be sure, but YOU seem very sure of yourself that the differences will be so minimal between hardware gaps of 7 years that the series X will look like a poor upgrade. Reported for trolling. 

Can you at least acknowledge the possibility that a team of 300 plus employees in the span of 5 years, for their biggest flagship exclusive, can optimize the series x version more then mere resolution and FPS? Because let me tell you it’s gonna look worse for you once we see actual video evidence. 

edit: stop assuming HZD2 and Spider-Man 2 will be launch titles unless you have proof. All you have is the FONT style for the PS5 logo. 

Look, you should consider what you want from these next gen consoles. Because on one hand you think it's a great idea that MS releases their exclusives on as many platforms as possible and give people choice. Yet, on the other hand you seem to get upset if Halo is not taking full advantage of the Series X capabilities and it won't have things like better ai. Which has officially been confirmed by 343 who are building the game for X1 as the base platform and literally said it would just run a bit better on Series X. It's completely different from Horizon 2, where they had 2 different developers making the X1 and 360 versions running on different engines.

I don't know which games Sony will launch with, but what I do know is that they want to get people to transition to the ps5 asap. Meaning, they won't build their flagship exclusives with main stream gaming pc's and ps4 in mind, just so they can reach more players.  

- 3rd parties can make most of system, which is the majority of Xbox/PS game sales

- Exclusives will have improvements beyond resolution and FPS. Examples include the new Halo engine and Ray Tracing in Forza (XB1 cant do RT)

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/halo-infinites-new-game-engine-will-allow-dev-to-d/1100-6473535/

https://www.gtplanet.net/turn-10-may-reveal-real-time-ray-tracing-in-forza-motorsport-8-at-the-game-developers-conference/

- No launch title will EVER take as much advantage as a 5th year exclusive, Sony or MS

- The entire gen belongs to Series X in power (3rd party). 1st party will follow in 1 year (don't always assume 2). 

Your argument is temporary at best and has no impact on 3rd parties. Examples show exclusives will have more then minor improvements. And in the end, quality speaks louder so that's more my hope for Halo Infinite. Drop it. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 10 February 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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sales2099 on 10 February 2020
eva01beserk said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Just because they have better specs at their disposal doesn't mean average game design will change drastically.

The X1 and PS4 are already capable of more advanced AI or putting more enemies in levels than 7th gen. They often already do large scale levels and open worlds.

I think the issue is game design, developers have just kept creating more of the same because their focus is the core gameplay, pushing graphics and story telling. Not necessarily creating something experimental or unique.

Many of the 8th gen games we've seen are technically experiences that could have been created on 7th gen with lower quality visuals. Not all, but most.

So if you can say that, then how can you say halo infinite would be any diferent on series x than on x1? Specially when a higher up said it would first be made on x1 and then enhaced for series x. 

Got the quote on that Halo Infinite Xbox One quote? Im curious how it was worded. From my memory it was just PR speak to reassure late adopters that the X1 version wont be a gimped mess, nothing more. 

The point is that there is a higher chance that it wont just be "slap on high resolution and fps and call it a day" port... there will be other improvements. The quote for cross gen games was 1-2 years. Holiday 2021 could be the last we see of this initiative.  3rd parties aren't bound by this either so they can take full advantage right away and lets be honest are the majority of game sales between Xbox and PS. And in the end, I care more that the game is a quality package. 

This whole thread is just fake concern and frankly, an argument designed to compensate that PS will not have the power advantage like PS4 had. I mean you are used to it with PS3 and PS4 (until Xbox X)...sorry to see the cycle break for you but that's business :) 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 10 February 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

goopy20 on 10 February 2020
sales2099 said:
eva01beserk said:

So if you can say that, then how can you say halo infinite would be any diferent on series x than on x1? Specially when a higher up said it would first be made on x1 and then enhaced for series x. 

Got the quote on that Halo Infinite Xbox One quote? Im curious how it was worded. From my memory it was just PR speak to reassure late adopters that the X1 version wont be a gimped mess, nothing more. 

The point is that there is a higher chance that it wont just be "slap on high resolution and fps and call it a day" port... there will be other improvements. The quote for cross gen games was 1-2 years. Holiday 2021 could be the last we see of this initiative.  3rd parties aren't bound by this either so they can take full advantage right away and lets be honest are the majority of game sales between Xbox and PS. And in the end, I care more that the game is a quality package. 

This whole thread is just fake concern and frankly, an argument designed to compensate that PS will not have the power advantage like PS4 had. I mean you are used to it with PS3 and PS4 (until Xbox X)...sorry to see the cycle break for you but that's business :) 

Here's the direct quote.

With that kit, it's clear that Halo Infinite will look and run better on Project Scarlett, but O'Connor was keen to stress that weaker specs don't mean the Xbox One release will run poorly by comparison.

"The Xbox One is not going to be a second-class citizen," he said. "We're building it so it plays and looks fantastic on Xbox One, and then everything else is plus-plus-plus, but we've got a few tricks up our sleeves that we're thinking about."

We will have to see what that means exactly. But I wouldn't expect a completely different game on Series with better ai, physics, level design and whatnot. At it's core you will likely get the exact same game on mainstream pc's and X1 and with some plus-plus-plus, in effects, resolution, fps etc. on Series X and high-end pc's. 

Also, you got me all wrong, thinking I want the Series X to fail. I already said that, if the Series X would have the power advantage, it will peak my interest and I'll probably end up buying one. I also think it would be the only way for Xbox to make some sort of comeback as it's going to be tough after a such a disappointing generation with the X1. I'm just saying that the only way I see MS doing that is if they make it super clear why people should spend a $100 or $200 premium on their console. And they should showcase that right out of the gate. Not 2 years later when Sony already released a ton a of ps5 exclusives that look better than anything MS has on their series X. Because then it will be too little too late. Hell, we could be seeing a true next gen Halo by 2025 and who knows what the base platform is for the next Gears.



Conina on 10 February 2020
goopy20 said:

I'm just saying that the only way I see MS doing that is if they make it super clear why people should spend a $100 or $200 premium on their console.

$100 or $200 premium compared to what? To the competing console (PS5)? Or to the predecessor (Xbox One X)?

goopy20 said:

And they should showcase that right out of the gate. Not 2 years later when Sony already released a ton a of ps5 exclusives that look better than anything MS has on their series X.

How much is a ton of PS5 exclusives?#

And why do you think most of Sony's PS5-releases won't be cross-gen games and remasters?

Let's have a look at the SCEA releases of the first PS4 years:

Last edited by Conina - on 10 February 2020

chakkra on 10 February 2020
eva01beserk said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Frankly, many games will be cross gen in 2020 and 2021. Some of these cross gen games may even utilize the boost in GPU power, CPU power, ray tracing and SSD in significant ways. PC is already utilizing these spec disparities by pushing higher quality assets and graphics settings (like ray tracing) while creating acceptable 8th gen console ports.

Just because a game is on newer specs doesn't mean developers are aiming to push AI and every other aspect of game design. This is just an assumption people keep making. Developers can create better AI with existing specs if they desired. There are even examples of AI being impressive on 6th gen specs.

Did MS say Halo Infinite will only be a "bit" better on Series X? Or did you just pull that out of your ass? If anything, MS has simply said the X1 version will be good. You also have to consider the PC version was always considered during development, therefore there are assets and visual settings being created for specs that are much better than X1. For example, Forza Horizon 3/4 and Gears 4/5 look considerably better on PC.

A Forza Horizon 2 scenario is seemingly unlikely for X1 and Series X cross gen titles. However a 3rd party studio could still optimize the X1 versions to perform better on the inferior specs. Much like Switch ports are often handled by a different studio.

You don't know anything about what PS5 is launching with, that's why you sound ridiculous. You just have assumptions they will be huge sequels that hit PS5's launch and they will virtually utilize PS5's full potential.

You also assume MS will always design games around X1 and lower end PCs. You have no reason to believe this, its just assumptions you keep pushing. Your assumptions are very lofty for Sony at launch, but Series X content will only be ports of games built for X1. You've turned X1's support in 2021 into something that will last the entire 9th gen based on nothing.

In a nutshell, your assumptions are silly bias.

But arent thouse improvements just things you adjust on a slider? nothing game braking like AI, more enemys or levels previously unplayable on base hardware. Technically a graphical bump.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there already plenty of games where you can adjust the AI level and enemy-count by changing between "easy" and "hard" modes?



sales2099 on 10 February 2020
goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

Got the quote on that Halo Infinite Xbox One quote? Im curious how it was worded. From my memory it was just PR speak to reassure late adopters that the X1 version wont be a gimped mess, nothing more. 

The point is that there is a higher chance that it wont just be "slap on high resolution and fps and call it a day" port... there will be other improvements. The quote for cross gen games was 1-2 years. Holiday 2021 could be the last we see of this initiative.  3rd parties aren't bound by this either so they can take full advantage right away and lets be honest are the majority of game sales between Xbox and PS. And in the end, I care more that the game is a quality package. 

This whole thread is just fake concern and frankly, an argument designed to compensate that PS will not have the power advantage like PS4 had. I mean you are used to it with PS3 and PS4 (until Xbox X)...sorry to see the cycle break for you but that's business :) 

Here's the direct quote.

With that kit, it's clear that Halo Infinite will look and run better on Project Scarlett, but O'Connor was keen to stress that weaker specs don't mean the Xbox One release will run poorly by comparison.

"The Xbox One is not going to be a second-class citizen," he said. "We're building it so it plays and looks fantastic on Xbox One, and then everything else is plus-plus-plus, but we've got a few tricks up our sleeves that we're thinking about."

We will have to see what that means exactly. But I wouldn't expect a completely different game on Series with better ai, physics, level design and whatnot. At it's core you will likely get the exact same game on mainstream pc's and X1 and with some plus-plus-plus, in effects, resolution, fps etc. on Series X and high-end pc's. 

Also, you got me all wrong, thinking I want the Series X to fail. I already said that, if the Series X would have the power advantage, it will peak my interest and I'll probably end up buying one. I also think it would be the only way for Xbox to make some sort of comeback as it's going to be tough after a such a disappointing generation with the X1. I'm just saying that the only way I see MS doing that is if they make it super clear why people should spend a $100 or $200 premium on their console. And they should showcase that right out of the gate. Not 2 years later when Sony already released a ton a of ps5 exclusives that look better than anything MS has on their series X. Because then it will be too little too late. Hell, we could be seeing a true next gen Halo by 2025 and who knows what the base platform is for the next Gears.

Oh no what will we do?!?!?!? We will just have to get by playing the superior 3rd party games while we play quality cross gen games. And then for 90% of the gen Series X will have the power advantage in all games. Woe is me! 

Stop being so dramatic. The post above with Conina charts show PS4 non cross gen titles weren’t that plentiful. Knack, KZ, Infamous and Drive Club. All games that are average or below, with Infamous being the best game but hardly “next gen” as it could easily have had a downgraded PS3 version imo. 

 Your argument has even more holes.....congrats PS5 will release a few true exclusives (and likely not their best) before MS drops the cross gen initiative. You say 2 years, I’ll say 1 since the quote said both. Big whoop LOL. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 10 February 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles.