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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Speculation - 4800H cpu is what next gen consoles will have.

 

Do you think this will be the case?

Yeah, think so. 8 72.73%
 
Nah, not happending. 3 27.27%
 
Total:11
Bofferbrauer2 on 08 January 2020
Pemalite said:

This will be my last post for about a week or so as I am going on deployment.

Good luck!

Really wondered how it was that you were still posting, as I thought Australia already had mobilized every firefighter against the bushfires. Kudos to you for doing what you are doing and stay safe out there!



The Nintendo eShop rating Thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=237454 List as Google Doc:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aW2hXQT1TheElVS7z-F3pP-7nbqdrDqWNTxl6JoJWBY/edit?usp=sharing

The Steam/GOG key gifting thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242024/the-steamgog-key-gifting-thread/1/ 

Free Pc Games thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/248138/free-pc-games/1/

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EricHiggin on 08 January 2020
Cerebralbore101 said:
I'd really like to see how this chip stacks up to 3600X and 3700X. Those CPUs are way cheaper than Intel and way better at pretty much everything. Of course AMD's mobile chip beats Intel's one year and three month old chip. AMD has been crushing Intel for a while now.

IMO 2.9 ghz base clock speed isn't very good. Boost clock speed is important, but in my experience with mobile chips, the boost clock doesn't last long.

These Ryzen 4000 mobile chips go into laptops with way worse cooling compared to desktops and consoles. Now some high end gaming laptops have decent cooling, but it's still not anywhere near what the consoles will able to provide in terms of cooling performance. This will be a major benefit to the consoles. It's also why we've been constantly seeing the leaks of 3.2GHz for the CPU. Instead of 2.9GHz like in the laptops, it'll probably be 3.2GHz, with up to 4.2GHz boost, which will be sustained for much much longer because of the console cooling capability. Especially in the XBSX based on it's design.

We'll see with the PS5, but the dev leaks have said the devkit it another jet like PS4. Now I've also seen a few suggestions based on leaks, that the 36CU GPU at 2.0GHz is actually the RDNA 5700 Series clocked up as high as it will go with extra cooling capabilities, and is only for late stage dev kits. The thought process is just to give devs RDNA hardware asap to get them as far ahead as possible for the 2020 launch, while the real GPU arch get's finished for final dev kits later on. I wouldn't be surprised if this is true because 36CU's seems like a 2019 launch choice.



EricHiggin on 08 January 2020

Ryzen mobile 4000 is also still entirely Vega I believe, just significantly optimized apparently, and 8CU's max. RDNA is quite a bit more power efficient than GCN, or was, so 45w is higher than it should be if this was the same chip using RDNA. The die size should also be smaller if it was using RDNA should it not?

I'm starting to believe the rumors of SNY helping to fund RDNA. Possibly even MS as well. Why would AMD still be using Vega and GCN for their APU's? Could be manpower and time, but it wouldn't surprise me if part of the deal is that Navi RDNA has to launch on console APU's first, before desktop or laptop APU's. This would allow AMD to launch the RDNA 5000 Series discrete GPU's last year and this year, but they would have to hold off on RDNA APU's until next year, after the consoles launch holiday 2020.

*Smart shift tech for AMD APU's should also help. Being able to shift and focus resources from CPU to GPU and vice versa should allow for even better overall performance from the hardware that ends up in the consoles.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 08 January 2020

Bofferbrauer2 on 09 January 2020
EricHiggin said:

Ryzen mobile 4000 is also still entirely Vega I believe, just significantly optimized apparently, and 8CU's max. RDNA is quite a bit more power efficient than GCN, or was, so 45w is higher than it should be if this was the same chip using RDNA. The die size should also be smaller if it was using RDNA should it not?

I'm starting to believe the rumors of SNY helping to fund RDNA. Possibly even MS as well. Why would AMD still be using Vega and GCN for their APU's? Could be manpower and time, but it wouldn't surprise me if part of the deal is that Navi RDNA has to launch on console APU's first, before desktop or laptop APU's. This would allow AMD to launch the RDNA 5000 Series discrete GPU's last year and this year, but they would have to hold off on RDNA APU's until next year, after the consoles launch holiday 2020.

*Smart shift tech for AMD APU's should also help. Being able to shift and focus resources from CPU to GPU and vice versa should allow for even better overall performance from the hardware that ends up in the consoles.

Well, RDNA is just an evolution of GCN and based on the GCN instruction set. It just got heavily optimized and overhauled at some places, especially code scheduling, most notably on the Wavefront: The Wavefront shrank from 64 to 32 threads (64 threads is still supported) for better utilization and can now add new instructions every cycle to it instead every 4 cycles, and 2 CU are grouped together into a Work Group Processor, but it's base is still GCN. I thus believe that the Vega in the 4000 APUs are actually closer to Navi, just don't go all the way and are thus still called Vega.

And the reason why the amount of CU got dropped to 8 could also be in part simply because the bandwidth limitations are choking bigger chips anyway, so only putting 8 of then onto the chip makes them significantly smaller without hampering the graphics performance much.



The Nintendo eShop rating Thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=237454 List as Google Doc:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aW2hXQT1TheElVS7z-F3pP-7nbqdrDqWNTxl6JoJWBY/edit?usp=sharing

The Steam/GOG key gifting thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242024/the-steamgog-key-gifting-thread/1/ 

Free Pc Games thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/248138/free-pc-games/1/

JRPGfan on 09 January 2020
EricHiggin said:

Ryzen mobile 4000 is also still entirely Vega I believe, just significantly optimized apparently, and 8CU's max. RDNA is quite a bit more power efficient than GCN, or was, so 45w is higher than it should be if this was the same chip using RDNA. The die size should also be smaller if it was using RDNA should it not?

I'm starting to believe the rumors of SNY helping to fund RDNA. Possibly even MS as well. Why would AMD still be using Vega and GCN for their APU's? Could be manpower and time, but it wouldn't surprise me if part of the deal is that Navi RDNA has to launch on console APU's first, before desktop or laptop APU's. This would allow AMD to launch the RDNA 5000 Series discrete GPU's last year and this year, but they would have to hold off on RDNA APU's until next year, after the consoles launch holiday 2020.

*Smart shift tech for AMD APU's should also help. Being able to shift and focus resources from CPU to GPU and vice versa should allow for even better overall performance from the hardware that ends up in the consoles.

These APUs (4800H or 4800U) are still useing Vega, but its a much improved version, useing some of their findings from RDNA.
Supposedly these vega parts give +59% better performance than old Vega cores.

Which is why you see them say 8CU, will give higher performance (~30%) than last gens 11CU's.



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Random_Matt on 09 January 2020

Lol, my CPU power requirements go through the roof. But seriously, it will 3.5ghz at most.



DonFerrari on 09 January 2020
Pemalite said:
DonFerrari said:
Don't think they are going for a beefy CPU. They rather put the budget on GPU and RAM.

Whilst the 4800H is beefy for a notebook, it's mid-range on the PC... And depending on clocks, maybe even low-end.

JRPGfan said:

Im not sure how big the chip is, or how much the iGPU portion takes up.
But Im sure once you cut cache abit, these 8 cores are probably not too big, or costly to have in a console.

AMD typically reserves up to 50% of the APU for the Graphics, that has been their design philosophy since they started making APU's with their Fusion initiative.

JRPGfan said:

There pretty energy effecient, and probably not overly expensive (im sure you ll see these in laptops that go as low as 600$).
With BoM on laptops being higher than consoles (overall) I dont see why you couldnt use this cpu in a console.

Probably energy efficient for an AMD mobile part... AMD has never had notebook CPU's with acceptable idle power, which isn't an issue for consoles or PC of course.
Intel however is still a step ahead of AMD in this aspect.

Intrinsic said:

The cache has already been cut down from the equivalent desktop part; basically its been quartered, from 32Mb down to 8MB. I

The hit to cache shouldn't have a corresponding hit to performance, the IMC and uncore is on die which will help massively with reducing latency, which is a big deviation from Zen on desktop.
With consoles also using the APU approach, I would expect to see similar for next-gen consoles.

Intrinsic said:

But even if  SMT is cut, that feature only adds about 30% to overall CPU performance anyways.

Sometimes it even reduces performance.

In saying that... SMT is mostly to ensure that the full CPU pipeline is being utilized fully rather than having parts of it idle.

JRPGfan said:

"Next-gen APUs will be in the 300mm2-405mm2 range, up from the 300mm2-360mm2 range of the current-gen chips. "

After Xbox showed off the photo of the chip, people have estimated it to be upwards of 420mm^2.
Supposedly its rumored to have 56 CU's (compute units) (3584 shaders) in the GPU portion.

Sony is only useing 36 CU's but running at higher speeds (smaller chip to save costs), downsize is its not as power effecient to do this.
Sony chip might be like ~270-280mm^2.

Higher clockspeeds but with a smaller chip doesn't mean it will be cheaper to produce.
Sometimes the opposite is true... Because you reach a point where the majority of chips won't hit a certain clockspeed without significant increases in voltage which then results in an acceleration of electromigration.

It's a balancing act.

So it is eligible to be on PS5/XSX =]

Good luck on your deployment.

HollyGamer said:
JRPGfan said:

So.... the 4800H is a 45w TPD part, that probably owes 10w of that TPD or so to the buildt in, GPU.
Its a 8core/16thread cpu with a base of 2.9GHz and a boost clock of 4,2GHz.

I can imagine next consoles to spend ~35watts of their power budget, on the CPU.
Which I believe a 4800H would be around.

So what does this all mean?
Well console CPUs are about to get pretty beefy.

Aparently one of these 4800H can beat a stock i7 - 9700k in firestrike physics (cpu) bench.

If you believe on flute benchmark that  supposed to be a PS5 prototype benchmark , it mentioned that it has a performance of Zen 1. Which is equal to ryzen 3700 with cut down cache  and run at  lower clock speed. I think we will get a cut down version of Ryzen 3700 or a mild modified version on it. It will be cheaper and will have better size to fit on an apu and to let more space  for more CU GPU on reasonable lower yield. 

But i am still not convinced that PS5 will have 9.2 teraflop GPU from 36 CU . It will have temperature problem and eat a lot of power. They probably will have more CU but run at mild clock speed to achieve 10 teraflop of performance. 

So i believe this is the CPU we will have or perhaps PS5 will have the same performance more or less with this one. 

It is confirmed to be Zen2 on the consoles.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

HollyGamer on 09 January 2020
DonFerrari said:

HollyGamer said:

If you believe on flute benchmark that  supposed to be a PS5 prototype benchmark , it mentioned that it has a performance of Zen 1. Which is equal to ryzen 3700 with cut down cache  and run at  lower clock speed. I think we will get a cut down version of Ryzen 3700 or a mild modified version on it. It will be cheaper and will have better size to fit on an apu and to let more space  for more CU GPU on reasonable lower yield. 

But i am still not convinced that PS5 will have 9.2 teraflop GPU from 36 CU . It will have temperature problem and eat a lot of power. They probably will have more CU but run at mild clock speed to achieve 10 teraflop of performance. 

So i believe this is the CPU we will have or perhaps PS5 will have the same performance more or less with this one. 

It is confirmed to be Zen2 on the consoles.

I know, what i mean is a cut down L3 cache  and underclocked core speed of Ryzen 3700 (Zen 2) will be equal to the performance of overclocked Ryzen 1700 (zen 1). The flute benchmark shows that the Oberon that were using Zen 2 run at lower clocked and supposed to be an cut of L3 cache. Game console does not need a lot of cache on running program and don't need a very high clock speed . Because it run only game API and menu only. 



DonFerrari on 09 January 2020
HollyGamer said:
DonFerrari said:

It is confirmed to be Zen2 on the consoles.

I know, what i mean is a cut down L3 cache  and underclocked core speed of Ryzen 3700 (Zen 2) will be equal to the performance of overclocked Ryzen 1700 (zen 1). The flute benchmark shows that the Oberon that were using Zen 2 run at lower clocked and supposed to be an cut of L3 cache. Game console does not need a lot of cache on running program and don't need a very high clock speed . Because it run only game API and menu only. 

Ok I understood.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

EricHiggin on 09 January 2020
Bofferbrauer2 said:
EricHiggin said:

Ryzen mobile 4000 is also still entirely Vega I believe, just significantly optimized apparently, and 8CU's max. RDNA is quite a bit more power efficient than GCN, or was, so 45w is higher than it should be if this was the same chip using RDNA. The die size should also be smaller if it was using RDNA should it not?

I'm starting to believe the rumors of SNY helping to fund RDNA. Possibly even MS as well. Why would AMD still be using Vega and GCN for their APU's? Could be manpower and time, but it wouldn't surprise me if part of the deal is that Navi RDNA has to launch on console APU's first, before desktop or laptop APU's. This would allow AMD to launch the RDNA 5000 Series discrete GPU's last year and this year, but they would have to hold off on RDNA APU's until next year, after the consoles launch holiday 2020.

*Smart shift tech for AMD APU's should also help. Being able to shift and focus resources from CPU to GPU and vice versa should allow for even better overall performance from the hardware that ends up in the consoles.

Well, RDNA is just an evolution of GCN and based on the GCN instruction set. It just got heavily optimized and overhauled at some places, especially code scheduling, most notably on the Wavefront: The Wavefront shrank from 64 to 32 threads (64 threads is still supported) for better utilization and can now add new instructions every cycle to it instead every 4 cycles, and 2 CU are grouped together into a Work Group Processor, but it's base is still GCN. I thus believe that the Vega in the 4000 APUs are actually closer to Navi, just don't go all the way and are thus still called Vega.

And the reason why the amount of CU got dropped to 8 could also be in part simply because the bandwidth limitations are choking bigger chips anyway, so only putting 8 of then onto the chip makes them significantly smaller without hampering the graphics performance much.
JRPGfan said:
EricHiggin said:

Ryzen mobile 4000 is also still entirely Vega I believe, just significantly optimized apparently, and 8CU's max. RDNA is quite a bit more power efficient than GCN, or was, so 45w is higher than it should be if this was the same chip using RDNA. The die size should also be smaller if it was using RDNA should it not?

I'm starting to believe the rumors of SNY helping to fund RDNA. Possibly even MS as well. Why would AMD still be using Vega and GCN for their APU's? Could be manpower and time, but it wouldn't surprise me if part of the deal is that Navi RDNA has to launch on console APU's first, before desktop or laptop APU's. This would allow AMD to launch the RDNA 5000 Series discrete GPU's last year and this year, but they would have to hold off on RDNA APU's until next year, after the consoles launch holiday 2020.

*Smart shift tech for AMD APU's should also help. Being able to shift and focus resources from CPU to GPU and vice versa should allow for even better overall performance from the hardware that ends up in the consoles.

These APUs (4800H or 4800U) are still useing Vega, but its a much improved version, useing some of their findings from RDNA.
Supposedly these vega parts give +59% better performance than old Vega cores.

Which is why you see them say 8CU, will give higher performance (~30%) than last gens 11CU's.

Can't help but wonder how much Vega has actually changed then. Why not give it a different name? In terms of marketing, having a new GCN arch that's much more capable than Vega should be more enticing to buyers than simply saying we improved Vega quite a bit.

Didn't think of bandwidth starvation. Good point. AMD surely can sell as many APU's and chiplets as they can make, so the smaller they are the better. The only buyers who lose are any who want a no compromise 1080p/60 APU, but it seems like AMD doesn't want to cross that line, at least not yet.