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WoodenPints said:
trunkswd said:

I know it is wishful thinking, but I wouldn't mind an "Xbox Series X|S has sold X" or "Xbox Series X|S is the fastest-selling Xbox in history"

The only thing I want to know how they managed to get such a bad deal to receive so many less chips from AMD compared to Sony unless the Series X chips have way worse yield rates.

Started production later than Sony cause they were waiting for the latest version of (RDNA 2?) so Sony naturally had a head start, plus Microsoft is having to create chips for both Series X and S while PS5/PS5 Digital are no different except one doesn't have a disc drive, Microsoft's manufacturing will be split with 2 chips compared to Sony's 1.

Maybe Sony just has a better deal too

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 19 April 2021

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Ryuu96 said:
WoodenPints said:

The only thing I want to know how they managed to get such a bad deal to receive so many less chips from AMD compared to Sony unless the Series X chips have way worse yield rates.

Started production later than Sony cause they were waiting for the latest version of (RDNA 2?) so Sony naturally had a head start, plus Microsoft is having to create chips for both Series X and S while PS5/PS5 Digital are no different except one doesn't have a disc drive, Microsoft's manufacturing will be split with 2 chips compared to Sony's 1.

Maybe Sony just has a better deal too

Hopefully MS managed to grab a fair share of the extra nodes that AMD bought (What would of been Apples but they moved to 5nm I think it was) I know it's a bad situation for every tech company at the moment but it's a shame Xbox is still shipping less because at the moment they pretty much have everything else in their favour so hopefully that momentum will continue as stock improves.



Knew there was a thread for this: https://www.resetera.com/threads/how-come-sony-are-able-manufacture-more-ps5s-vs-what-microsoft-is-doing-with-their-xbox-series-consoles.411192/ Basically...

- Microsoft waited for RDNA 2 features which meant they started manufacturing around Summer time (I think July?), Sony started around May.

- Microsoft is having to make 2 chips, Sony only has to make 1.

- Xbox Series X SoC is larger which means Sony can manufacture more systems per wafer than Microsoft can.

- Microsoft is likely underestimating demand, not a surprise with how last gen went, Sony in Q4 purchased 80k wafer from AMD but Xbox only purchased 40k. Sony has likely planned more demand than Xbox has (Sony always said their goal was to beat PS4 but Series X/S didn't even have Halo Infinite at launch so I imagine Microsoft set expectations down).

- Sony's manufacturing is simply better than Microsoft's, Sony has their own factories, one which is near fully automated and can make a Playstation console every 30 seconds, I'm not even sure if Microsoft has their own manufacturing factories or if they just rely on 3rd parties.

- They're also manufacturing for Azure server blades, each blade currently uses 4 Xbox One S per server blade.

1 Chassis holds 24 Server Blades, 1 Rack holds 3-4 Chassis, that'd be 384 Series X per rack but Azure data centres are massive so I don't have a clue how many racks are in a data centre. Having said that, 4 Series X per server blade is overkill, I do not think it will be that, it'll probably be 1 or 2 at most, actually I think it would be 1 so that'd only be 96 Series X per Rack but again Idk how many racks they have.

I also would expect Microsoft low-key would rather whatever benefits Azure to receive priority.

So it's a combination of a lot of factors, with all that, don't expect Xbox to catch up to Sony anytime soon and by that happens it'll already be too late and Sony will have a decent lead and zoom off again, but I don't think it'll bother Microsoft all too much.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 19 April 2021

Ryuu96 said:
derpysquirtle64 said:

I personally support the cancellation of Xbox One version of Halo Infinite if it will help the development process. Yeah, I'm being selfish here as I have Series X. But if Microsoft's goal is to make the game playable on Xbox One, then using cloud gaming for that is an extremely horrible idea. Probably won't even reach 10% of the potential user base with such approach. Not only xCloud is inferior experience compared to native port which will turn off many players, but also it has very limited availability. If Xbox Wire is correct only 22 countries for now, which will make it available on Xbox One only in certain regions.

But using that same logic, cancelling it is an even worse idea than making an xCloud version.

Microsoft though can take the hit, I mean, there's a rumour that Battlefield 6 will have a F2P mode and also be next gen only, if EA can do it then why can't Microsoft? Sure EA has PS5 too but that's only one extra platform which hasn't sold that much yet.

I think Infinite would be fine Series X/S and PC, it would push Series X/S sales (although supply constrained but still push them when supply catches up), it would push xCloud (even if only a little) and it would also make development smoother.

I don't image Halo Infinite will be supported on Xbox One for very long, maybe a few years, seems a bit pointless really.

Or make the Campaign next gen only, won't be long before some of the planned future updates (maybe even at launch) are only available on Series X/S cause they won't be feasible for Xbox One. xCloud will at least eliminate all that worry for the developers, how do we make this work on Xbox One? Can we make it work? Lets try, oh no it can't work, time to apologise to Xbox One owners, etc.

Xbox One owners getting an inferior version either way.

Native Xbox One port I doubt will get solid 60fps, would not be surprised if it's capped at 30fps, won't get ray-tracing, will likely have ugly graphics, the weather effects planned for post launch will probably be nerfed on Xbox One, etc. At least with xCloud you could still get all that providing you have a good internet connection, an Xbox One port though? Never happening, cause the hardware isn't capable and it's too much effort than it's worth.

Though saying this, I wonder if they could do a native port but later release xCloud version which supports all these features, essentially, you are playing Xbox One but want the benefits of Series X? You can play the xCloud version, eventually the support for the Xbox One version will be dropped, but at least the older version of Halo Infinite could still be played.

You describe exactly what I feel about Halo Infinite Xbox One version, but Microsoft don't feel the same way. Xbox One user base is too big to ignore and the timing for release is not great to make the game next gen only. Not to mention it was announced as Xbox One game a long time ago when Series X wasn't even a thing. Cancelling it now would be a bad thing from consumer trust perspective. I think if they end up struggling to make it perform decent on xbone, the Series X version will take a cut.

Ryuu96 said:

Knew there was a thread for this: https://www.resetera.com/threads/how-come-sony-are-able-manufacture-more-ps5s-vs-what-microsoft-is-doing-with-their-xbox-series-consoles.411192/ Basically...

- Microsoft waited for RDNA 2 features which meant they started manufacturing around Summer time (I think July?), Sony started around May.

- Microsoft is having to make 2 chips, Sony only has to make 1.

- Xbox Series X SoC is larger which means Sony can manufacture more systems per wafer than Microsoft can.

- Microsoft is likely underestimating demand, not a surprise with how last gen went, Sony in Q4 purchased 80k wafer from AMD but Xbox only purchased 40k. Sony has likely planned more demand than Xbox has (Sony always said their goal was to beat PS4 but Series X/S didn't even have Halo Infinite at launch so I imagine Microsoft set expectations down).

- Sony's manufacturing is simply better than Microsoft's, Sony has their own factories, one which is near fully automated and can make a Playstation console every 30 seconds, I'm not even sure if Microsoft has their own manufacturing factories or if they just rely on 3rd parties.

- They're also manufacturing for Azure server blades, each blade currently uses 4 Xbox One S per server blade.

1 Chassis holds 24 Server Blades, 1 Rack holds 3-4 Chassis, that'd be 384 Series X per rack but Azure data centres are massive so I don't have a clue how many racks are in a data centre. Having said that, 4 Series X per server blade is overkill, I do not think it will be that, it'll probably be 1 or 2 at most, actually I think it would be 1 so that'd only be 96 Series X per Rack but again Idk how many racks they have.

I also would expect Microsoft low-key would rather whatever benefits Azure to receive priority.

So it's a combination of a lot of factors, with all that, don't expect Xbox to catch up to Sony anytime soon and by that happens it'll already be too late and Sony will have a decent lead and zoom off again, but I don't think it'll bother Microsoft all too much.

Microsoft doesn't have factories, they use Foxconn production lines if I'm not mistaken. And it costs money. I think the main reason they only manage to sell 100k consoles per week is not even chip shortage but the limitation of production lines they have. They can probably order more lines from Foxconn but it will result in them paying more money which seems they are not interested in.



 

derpysquirtle64 said:
Ryuu96 said:

-Snip-

You describe exactly what I feel about Halo Infinite Xbox One version, but Microsoft don't feel the same way. Xbox One user base is too big to ignore and the timing for release is not great to make the game next gen only. Not to mention it was announced as Xbox One game a long time ago when Series X wasn't even a thing. Cancelling it now would be a bad thing from consumer trust perspective. I think if they end up struggling to make it perform decent on xbone, the Series X version will take a cut.

Ryuu96 said:

-Snip-

Microsoft doesn't have factories, they use Foxconn production lines if I'm not mistaken. And it costs money. I think the main reason they only manage to sell 100k consoles per week is not even chip shortage but the limitation of production lines they have. They can probably order more lines from Foxconn but it will result in them paying more money which seems they are not interested in.

Doing a little digging, they had one for Surface back in 2015, closed it 2 years later to move production to China, oof.

But yeah, Sony has a way better manufacturing process, makes sense with Sony being way more of a hardware company than Microsoft is.

-

Regarding Halo Infinite, yeah, I was more speaking of what should have been done from the start, it's obviously too late to change anything now, an Xbox One version is happening no matter what which will probably hurt the scale of the Series X version.

There will 100% be stuff that is only possible on the Series X version though so I suppose having xCloud on consoles, if folk want to play a 'Series X' version of Halo Infinite on Xbox One it will have to be through xCloud, that seems like a decent compromise for both sides.

For example they already confirmed ray tracing for Halo Infinite, that is definitely not going to be available on Xbox One but it could be available on Xbox One through xCloud version (I think?) and ray-tracing likely won't be the end.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 19 April 2021

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Ryuu96 said:

Knew there was a thread for this: https://www.resetera.com/threads/how-come-sony-are-able-manufacture-more-ps5s-vs-what-microsoft-is-doing-with-their-xbox-series-consoles.411192/ Basically...

- Microsoft waited for RDNA 2 features which meant they started manufacturing around Summer time (I think July?), Sony started around May.

- Microsoft is having to make 2 chips, Sony only has to make 1.

- Xbox Series X SoC is larger which means Sony can manufacture more systems per wafer than Microsoft can.

- Microsoft is likely underestimating demand, not a surprise with how last gen went, Sony in Q4 purchased 80k wafer from AMD but Xbox only purchased 40k. Sony has likely planned more demand than Xbox has (Sony always said their goal was to beat PS4 but Series X/S didn't even have Halo Infinite at launch so I imagine Microsoft set expectations down).

- Sony's manufacturing is simply better than Microsoft's, Sony has their own factories, one which is near fully automated and can make a Playstation console every 30 seconds, I'm not even sure if Microsoft has their own manufacturing factories or if they just rely on 3rd parties.

- They're also manufacturing for Azure server blades, each blade currently uses 4 Xbox One S per server blade.

1 Chassis holds 24 Server Blades, 1 Rack holds 3-4 Chassis, that'd be 384 Series X per rack but Azure data centres are massive so I don't have a clue how many racks are in a data centre. Having said that, 4 Series X per server blade is overkill, I do not think it will be that, it'll probably be 1 or 2 at most, actually I think it would be 1 so that'd only be 96 Series X per Rack but again Idk how many racks they have.

I also would expect Microsoft low-key would rather whatever benefits Azure to receive priority.

So it's a combination of a lot of factors, with all that, don't expect Xbox to catch up to Sony anytime soon and by that happens it'll already be too late and Sony will have a decent lead and zoom off again, but I don't think it'll bother Microsoft all too much.

That is quite a difference in volume and considering how far in advance the wafers are usually bought then it sounds like Xbox will only be able to produce half as many consoles for the next 1-2 years.



WoodenPints said:
Ryuu96 said:

Knew there was a thread for this: https://www.resetera.com/threads/how-come-sony-are-able-manufacture-more-ps5s-vs-what-microsoft-is-doing-with-their-xbox-series-consoles.411192/ Basically...

- Microsoft waited for RDNA 2 features which meant they started manufacturing around Summer time (I think July?), Sony started around May.

- Microsoft is having to make 2 chips, Sony only has to make 1.

- Xbox Series X SoC is larger which means Sony can manufacture more systems per wafer than Microsoft can.

- Microsoft is likely underestimating demand, not a surprise with how last gen went, Sony in Q4 purchased 80k wafer from AMD but Xbox only purchased 40k. Sony has likely planned more demand than Xbox has (Sony always said their goal was to beat PS4 but Series X/S didn't even have Halo Infinite at launch so I imagine Microsoft set expectations down).

- Sony's manufacturing is simply better than Microsoft's, Sony has their own factories, one which is near fully automated and can make a Playstation console every 30 seconds, I'm not even sure if Microsoft has their own manufacturing factories or if they just rely on 3rd parties.

- They're also manufacturing for Azure server blades, each blade currently uses 4 Xbox One S per server blade.

1 Chassis holds 24 Server Blades, 1 Rack holds 3-4 Chassis, that'd be 384 Series X per rack but Azure data centres are massive so I don't have a clue how many racks are in a data centre. Having said that, 4 Series X per server blade is overkill, I do not think it will be that, it'll probably be 1 or 2 at most, actually I think it would be 1 so that'd only be 96 Series X per Rack but again Idk how many racks they have.

I also would expect Microsoft low-key would rather whatever benefits Azure to receive priority.

So it's a combination of a lot of factors, with all that, don't expect Xbox to catch up to Sony anytime soon and by that happens it'll already be too late and Sony will have a decent lead and zoom off again, but I don't think it'll bother Microsoft all too much.

That is quite a difference in volume and considering how far in advance the wafers are usually bought then it sounds like Xbox will only be able to produce half as many consoles for the next 1-2 years.

I actually think it is more a matter of planning. I'm not going to pretend that I know how these fabrication processes work, but I think it is safe to assume that these companies have to order their parts within a set time-frame. I mean, if you want 10 million units (of any product) to be manufactured within a year then a certain amount of production lines need to be set up to achieve that goal (factories, supplies, hiring the number of employees needed to do the job, etc, etc).

I think MS just severely underestimated the number of units they were going to need to ship for the first year. I'm willing to bet they assumed the first year was going to be similar to Xone's first year and just went from there. And yes, under normal circumstances they probably would have been able to ramp up production by now, but they have been caught with their pants down by the shortage situation.



Zenimax Online new AAA Open World IP will have player and NPC controlled vehicles, https://jobs.zenimax.com/requisitions/view/2010

I still think that it’s a Destiny like game and not a full MMO.

Last edited by EspadaGrim - on 19 April 2021