What is stupidest about this marketing propaganda is it doesn't even make effort to seriously consider what these "last minute hardware secret sauce" changes would be. With PS4, it was already known that the amount of GDDR RAM was in flux up to very late, with market prices supporting a "last minute" increase of that. "Not giving devs time to optimize their games after willfully keeping obsolete design not maximizing available performance, to surprise Sony" doesn't fly. So what is the change that MS could not have specified 1 year or 6 months ago, but are doing so now? I guess that doesn't matter, because secret cloud sauce.

Still it isn't wrong.

Well, if you have 1 Flop you’re not getting very far though.

S.Peelman said: Well, if you have 1 Flop you’re not getting very far though.

He is right when comparing next gen to last gen, since 1 Tflop next gen will give you much more than last gen. He also is right when comparing across to different architectures. However, we are comparing two GPUs that will both be based on Navi, so will function almost exactly alike. In that case, Tflops should actually mean something.

Teraflop is not important and wont mater, but it's an easy layman terms to compare graphical power between the same GPu architecture. Of course there is bandwidth, cache, core clock benefit , power draw back, texture fill rate, geometry engine, pixel fill rate etc etc to be mentioned . The easiest way for now is just use GPU on PC for power comparison.

thismeintiel said: S.Peelman said: Well, if you have 1 Flop you’re not getting very far though. He is right when comparing next gen to last gen, since 1 Tflop next gen will give you much more than last gen. He also is right when comparing across to different architectures. However, we are comparing two GPUs that will both be based on Navi, so will function almost exactly alike. In that case, Tflops should actually mean something.

I would say that ceteris paribus (meaning all else is the same between the 2 CPUs) then of course 12 or 14 TFlops would mean more actual power than 10 TFlops.

To marketing thought even if the 10Tflop GPU of one console is better overall in real world than the 14Tflop of the other one. The one with 14 will make the adds saying they are the most powerfull and have 40% more processing power than the other. So even on the Tlop both will try to have as much as possible.

S.Peelman said: Well, if you have 1 Flop you’re not getting very far though.

You will if you aren't using floating point but rather integers.

Flops are a theoretical denominator, not a real-world representation of what the hardware is capable of.
It also doesn't tell us the entire complete capabilities of a part, only a singular facet.

Navi on the PC based on RDNA is actually still based upon Graphics Core Next, it even has the same instruction set, it is a hybrid design so to speak... Much akin to the Xbox 360 GPU being Radeon x1900 based but leveraging facets from the Radeon 2900 series.

RDNA 2 will likely ditch that baggage, thus RDNA and RDNA 2 even if both are "Navi" are likely non-comparable, even more so when you start accounting for other processing resources like Ray Tracing cores.

Pemalite said: S.Peelman said: Well, if you have 1 Flop you’re not getting very far though. You will if you aren't using floating point but rather integers. thismeintiel said: He is right when comparing next gen to last gen, since 1 Tflop next gen will give you much more than last gen. He also is right when comparing across to different architectures. However, we are comparing two GPUs that will both be based on Navi, so will function almost exactly alike. In that case, Tflops should actually mean something. Flops are a theoretical denominator, not a real-world representation of what the hardware is capable of. It also doesn't tell us the entire complete capabilities of a part, only a singular facet. Navi on the PC based on RDNA is actually still based upon Graphics Core Next, it even has the same instruction set, it is a hybrid design so to speak... Much akin to the Xbox 360 GPU being Radeon x1900 based but leveraging facets from the Radeon 2900 series. RDNA 2 will likely ditch that baggage, thus RDNA and RDNA 2 even if both are "Navi" are likely non-comparable, even more so when you start accounting for other processing resources like Ray Tracing cores.

We are not talking about RDNA vs RDNA2.  These are two GPUs that will more than likely be almost identical.

@goopy - Only a fraction of users seem to really play the exclusives. Unless its Nintendo games of course. I'm not exactly sure why so many flock to PS4, especially when consider they share many top selling games.

@Technarchy - I don't believe X1 being less powerful than PS4 was the biggest problem X1 had at launch. I'd say being $499 was a much bigger problem. X1 sales could have been boosted early on if they excluded Kinect at launch for $399.

Hence, their next console would have to be more expensive and less powerful to recreate the 2013 launch situation. These are important details people seem to ignore.

I personally hope MS does two units, base and premium. It would be good for them if they have a cheap unit and the most powerful console again.