Its obvious that Obama is a white supremacist kkk leader neo nazi ect ect ect ect...... Trump made him do it to.
It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.
Its obvious that Obama is a white supremacist kkk leader neo nazi ect ect ect ect...... Trump made him do it to.
It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.
Mnementh said:
He doesn't criticize having a position on things, he criticizes the current trend to absolutely destroy everyone with a different opinion, even a slightly diverging opinion. That doesn't mean he won't have an opinion about gender pay gap. |
What Obama said regarding the gender pay gap was not an “opinion”. He took misleading data and spun it as a fact - a “fact” that a lot of uninformed people still believe and reference. Also, he can have an opinion on anything, just like everyone else - my point is that the current trend of identity politics (of which “woke” and “call out” culture are strongly intertwined) was propagated hugely by him and the Democratic Party during his presidency.
TonsofPuppies said: While he's not wrong, he looks pretty silly saying this, considering the huge role that he and his party played in popularizing identity politics. Obama perpetuates myths like the 77% "gender pay gap", so this stance looks pretty fake, coming from him. Perhaps he's finally opened his eyes and realized that the political left has gone far too far, but I don't trust anything he says. |
Thats the problem with all people. people could be responsible for 99% of a problem, but then somebody comes along and pushes that extra 1% and its all that one guys fault. But at least after that catastrophic faliure happens people know that it was a mistake, they pay the price and try to fix it or work around it. But with the woke left is different, they dont even know what the problem is sometimes. they just regurgitate what the other said without analyzing first and if anybody responds they dont listen and immediately attack. They dont know because they dont care, they just wana look like they are trying and nothing gets done that way.
But im with you there, untill he admits that he had a huge role to play on this its all pandering. He knows that its doing harm and is trying to distance himself from the eventual backlash that is coming.
It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.
TonsofPuppies said:
What Obama said regarding the gender pay gap was not an “opinion”. He took misleading data and spun it as a fact - a “fact” that a lot of uninformed people still believe and reference. Also, he can have an opinion on anything, just like everyone else - my point is that the current trend of identity politics (of which “woke” and “call out” culture are strongly intertwined) was propagated hugely by him and the Democratic Party during his presidency. |
In my personal experience the pay gap isn't a myth. I went to the same grad school, graduated the same time, had the exact same degree, ended up working in the exact same research group, doing the exact same work. I was making 30% more. We were the same age, both married, had kids.. Literally there was absolutely no difference between us. Except I made 30% more and was a male. Perhaps one would argue that is a one off, but it certainly seems questionable at the very least.
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Chrkeller said:
In my personal experience the pay gap isn't a myth. I went to the same grad school, graduated the same time, had the exact same degree, ended up working in the exact same research group, doing the exact same work. I was making 30% more. We were the same age, both married, had kids.. Literally there was absolutely no difference between us. Except I made 30% more and was a male. Perhaps one would argue that is a one off, but it certainly seems questionable at the very least. |
Anecdotal evidence =/= evidence
The gender pay gap myth has been debunked so many times and no credible economist takes it seriously. The 77% figure is determined when comparing all jobs across all fields. I’m sure you can see exactly what the issue is here. Elementary school teachers make far less than structural engineers. It has nothing to do with gender discrimination. Men also account for almost 95% of workplace deaths, because they’re almost exclusively working the “dirty”, dangerous jobs that women do not want to do. If you’re putting your life on the line, you SHOULD make more. Or else, what incentive is there to do so? These are just some of the factors that lead to the 77% figure that no one talks about.
Lastly, we live in a heavily capitalist society, much to the chagrin of Bernie Sanders and the rest of the left. If big corporations could get away with paying women 23% less for doing the same job, the entire workforce would be made up of exclusively women. Do you really think that big corporations are such “old boys clubs” that they’ll willing take that 23% loss for the sake of keeping women in kitchens? That’s just silly.
I should specify though - workplace gender discrimination certainly exists. There will always be idiots out there who still wish we were living in the 1800s. Just like racists. These people will ALWAYS exist, unfortunately, regardless of how much social engineering is pushed upon the masses.
Having said that, discrimination probably accounts for about 1% of the gender pay gap. So my argument is not that gender discrimination doesn’t exist, just that it accounts for significantly less of the disparity in the gender pay gap than the radical left claims. Lastly, calling it a “pay gap” in itself is disingenuous. It’s actually an earnings gap.
I suspect regardless of the data, some wouldn't believe it because it doesn't fit their agenda. I've seen gender issues in the workplace. It isn't imaginary.
My first manager flat out told me he wouldn't hire a female, because all they do is cry.
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Chrkeller said: I suspect regardless of the data, some wouldn't believe it because it doesn't fit their agenda. I've seen gender issues in the workplace. It isn't imaginary. My first manager flat out told me he wouldn't hire a female, because all they do is cry. |
The data indicates that when you factor in the variables that I mentioned above, as well as many others, the gender gap all but vanishes (down to a couple of percent).
Of course, It should be 0% (provided that all other variables are equal). I don’t think anyone should be discriminated against based on their identity. Thinking we’ll ever actually get to 0% is a naive game though. Utopia doesn’t exist, nor will it ever exist. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t keep striving to improve of course, but spouting off nonsense like the 77% figure doesn’t help anyone or anything. Spreading false / misleading information will only hinder social progress.
Last edited by TonsofPuppies - on 31 October 2019Chrkeller said:
In my personal experience the pay gap isn't a myth. I went to the same grad school, graduated the same time, had the exact same degree, ended up working in the exact same research group, doing the exact same work. I was making 30% more. We were the same age, both married, had kids.. Literally there was absolutely no difference between us. Except I made 30% more and was a male. Perhaps one would argue that is a one off, but it certainly seems questionable at the very least. |
This is a very flawed reasoning. It doesn't matter what your age, degree or workplace is. What matters is what profit you bring to the company. I work in a hospital (not in the US) and the salary is mainly based on the workload you have. If you bring more patients you get a higher pay. Your base pay is the same regardless of the gender. It's a simple mathematical formula.
Obviously this is as anecdotal as your example but the point is that in a capitalistic society there will always be discrepancies in the salary. It doesn't mean that they're due to gender or racial inequality.
Look, people, I can't stand the hypocritical "left" either (or the self-centered "right") but can we stop pretending that it's only liberals participating in bandwagon outrage culture? It might not be over the same things but I see the same kind of behavior across the board. Nor do people necessarily go into attack mode based entirely on party lines. I know some political fanatics think about nothing else but the average person isn't wired that way.
Chrkeller said: In my personal experience the pay gap isn't a myth. I went to the same grad school, graduated the same time, had the exact same degree, ended up working in the exact same research group, doing the exact same work. I was making 30% more. We were the same age, both married, had kids.. Literally there was absolutely no difference between us. Except I made 30% more and was a male. Perhaps one would argue that is a one off, but it certainly seems questionable at the very least. |
While you're right in a lot of ways--there certainly are gaps within some industries--the gap he's talking about is a very specific situation where a very flawed methodology was used in order to make the gap seem wider. That is, ALL jobs were compared against ALL other jobs. Why is that incredibly misleading? Because career choices by women and men do not match 1:1. It's literally comparing apples to watermelons and then saying that it's not fair that one is bigger.
A waitress probably shouldn't make as much money as a coal miner so comparing the two makes little sense.