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Forums - Politics Discussion - Muslim parents in UK protest school children's storybook featuring same gender parents

Immersiveunreality said:
MrWayne said:

Seems like some people thought this thread will be some kind of honey pot trap for lefties who would finally show their true intentions, the islamisation of the western world.

Well get out of your filter bubble I guess.

This site does not have that many extreme people i believe, most on the wide political spectrum on here are fairly openminded even when opposing eachother but exceptions always occur of course.

I fully agree.



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Not sure what has transpired so far, and not so invested in a forum post that I'd spend that long reading to find out, but a few thoughts:

- As a Muslim, I fully agree with the contentions of the parents. I don't think protesting achieves much though, and bad behaviour in protests achieves even less - if that has occurred I'd be the first to call them out on it.
- It's funny (read:sad) how emphasised "Freedom of Speech" is in the West, but when minority groups try to exercise that freedom they are shut down. It's bigotry when it's anti-[insert Western value/ideal], but anti-religion is being "critical" and nuanced. Whatever trevor.
- Pretty sure they are teaching this stuff in Aussie schools now too - What I will do is be a proper parent, educate my son properly at home and then I won't have to worry about the school system brainwashing him. It's understandable that parents are upset but it really isn't the end of the world.



nil8r153 said:
Not sure what has transpired so far, and not so invested in a forum post that I'd spend that long reading to find out, but a few thoughts:

- As a Muslim, I fully agree with the contentions of the parents. I don't think protesting achieves much though, and bad behaviour in protests achieves even less - if that has occurred I'd be the first to call them out on it.
- It's funny (read:sad) how emphasised "Freedom of Speech" is in the West, but when minority groups try to exercise that freedom they are shut down. It's bigotry when it's anti-[insert Western value/ideal], but anti-religion is being "critical" and nuanced. Whatever trevor.
- Pretty sure they are teaching this stuff in Aussie schools now too - What I will do is be a proper parent, educate my son properly at home and then I won't have to worry about the school system brainwashing him. It's understandable that parents are upset but it really isn't the end of the world.

Hold on, I can't see how these people's freedom of speech was violated in any kind of ways. Articulating any kind of thought often leads to people disagreeing with said thought.



nil8r153 said:
Not sure what has transpired so far, and not so invested in a forum post that I'd spend that long reading to find out, but a few thoughts:

- As a Muslim, I fully agree with the contentions of the parents. I don't think protesting achieves much though, and bad behaviour in protests achieves even less - if that has occurred I'd be the first to call them out on it.
- It's funny (read:sad) how emphasised "Freedom of Speech" is in the West, but when minority groups try to exercise that freedom they are shut down. It's bigotry when it's anti-[insert Western value/ideal], but anti-religion is being "critical" and nuanced. Whatever trevor.
- Pretty sure they are teaching this stuff in Aussie schools now too - What I will do is be a proper parent, educate my son properly at home and then I won't have to worry about the school system brainwashing him. It's understandable that parents are upset but it really isn't the end of the world.

Peacefull "freedom of speech" wont get shut down and that counts for most "groups".



Torillian said:
DrDoomz said:

That you do not want your kids to be exposed to something that you do not approve of? Or you want to control the age when your kids are exposed to something that is hard to explain and reconcile with your beliefs? There are more conclusions here than simply "all gays must vanish"...

I think you're giving this an overly charitable view. When you protest the existence of gay people in a lesson at school it's a pretty reasonable thing to think you would prefer they don't exist. You're telling me if those protesters had a button that turned every gay person straight and they didn't have to ever explain to their kids about how this works, or "reconcile it with their beliefs" they wouldn't press that button? Seems like a pretty reasonable inductive conclusion to make about someone protesting their five year old learning gay people exist. 

If you disagree I'd be interested to hear an example in which you would protest your child learning about something but you take no issue with that thing existing. For myself, I guess I would protest if my kid was taught religious beliefs at preschool without my knowledge, but I would also press the hypothetical button that would turn all the religious people into atheists so that doesn't really fit.

There are so many people that would erase so many things with this button, including a lot of atheist that would erase theists or gay people that would erase heterossexual, etc... that is no ground to anything.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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KLAMarine said:
LGBTDBZBBQ said:
They are right! I don't want my children to be thought in school about gender fluid, Unicord, BBQ, Gundam, Helicopter and other stuff just normal stuff like Science and Math. A teacher who teaches that kind of stuff is mentally unstable, to begin with.

What does LGBT stand for in your name?

DBZ (Dragon Ball Z) and BBQ (Barbecue) should be tips. Not sure if he pertains to LGBT in any way though.

MrWayne said:
nil8r153 said:
Not sure what has transpired so far, and not so invested in a forum post that I'd spend that long reading to find out, but a few thoughts:

- As a Muslim, I fully agree with the contentions of the parents. I don't think protesting achieves much though, and bad behaviour in protests achieves even less - if that has occurred I'd be the first to call them out on it.
- It's funny (read:sad) how emphasised "Freedom of Speech" is in the West, but when minority groups try to exercise that freedom they are shut down. It's bigotry when it's anti-[insert Western value/ideal], but anti-religion is being "critical" and nuanced. Whatever trevor.
- Pretty sure they are teaching this stuff in Aussie schools now too - What I will do is be a proper parent, educate my son properly at home and then I won't have to worry about the school system brainwashing him. It's understandable that parents are upset but it really isn't the end of the world.

Hold on, I can't see how these people's freedom of speech was violated in any kind of ways. Articulating any kind of thought often leads to people disagreeing with said thought.

I guess that is because of the attacks to what they think.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

RolStoppable said:
Azuren said:

So Islamaphobic.

It's as islamophobic as it is hypocritical to support a government that locks people up who locked up someone in their basement.

Not really, but if that's how someone wants to tell themselves they're not being islamaphobic while still supporting education Muslim children about things that go against their parents' wishes and interpretation of the Qur'an then they should go for it.



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SpokenTruth said:
Azuren said:

So Islamaphobic.

I have to applaud you for that level of mental gymnastics. 

I'll try this again:

5 year old: Daddy, what are those 2 people doing?
Dad: Getting married.
5 year old: Why?
Dad: Because they love each other.
5 year old: Oh. Ok.

Now, I'd like you to point out the Islamphobia in that.

Trying to dumb down a nuanced discussion about religious beliefs, sexual orientation, and overriding parents' wishes to five lines only shows how woefully unprepared you are to actually discuss this outside of a basic attempt to virtue signal.

And even in that line, you're essentially telling Muslims that their belief is wrong and they should assimilate. While I agree you on that, it's also important to point out what you're doing. Then there's the fact that we're not talking about a parent telling their child and having a discussion, we're talking about a public institution discussing it with these children against the wishes of their parents.

At some point, you're going to have to reconcile with the idea that progressive ideas like those surrounding gay rights don't mix with conservative religions. Especially when the religion in question is used in a multitude of countries to justify the execution of homosexuals.



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nil8r153 said:
Not sure what has transpired so far, and not so invested in a forum post that I'd spend that long reading to find out, but a few thoughts:

1. - As a Muslim, I fully agree with the contentions of the parents. I don't think protesting achieves much though, and bad behaviour in protests achieves even less - if that has occurred I'd be the first to call them out on it.
2. - It's funny (read:sad) how emphasised "Freedom of Speech" is in the West, but when minority groups try to exercise that freedom they are shut down. It's bigotry when it's anti-[insert Western value/ideal], but anti-religion is being "critical" and nuanced. Whatever trevor.
3. - Pretty sure they are teaching this stuff in Aussie schools now too - What I will do is be a proper parent, educate my son properly at home and then I won't have to worry about the school system brainwashing him. It's understandable that parents are upset but it really isn't the end of the world.

1. It has happened.

2. Freedom of speech for extremist minorities is allowed, as you can see, these people have made their opinion pretty clear over the course of weeks using loud speakers. Something they wouldn't be able to do in any Islamic country. 

3. More importantly, Aren't you the guy who thinks people should be killed if they leave Islam? Do you also believe that LGBT members should thrown off high buildings as well? I wouldn't be surprised if you do.

I hope the schools where you are have stronger brain washing machines than the ones you have at home.

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 08 June 2019

RolStoppable said:
Azuren said:

Not really, but if that's how someone wants to tell themselves they're not being islamaphobic while still supporting education Muslim children about things that go against their parents' wishes and interpretation of the Qur'an then they should go for it.

Azuren said:

Trying to dumb down a nuanced discussion about religious beliefs, sexual orientation, and overriding parents' wishes to five lines only shows how woefully unprepared you are to actually discuss this outside of a basic attempt to virtue signal.

And even in that line, you're essentially telling Muslims that their belief is wrong and they should assimilate. While I agree you on that, it's also important to point out what you're doing. Then there's the fact that we're not talking about a parent telling their child and having a discussion, we're talking about a public institution discussing it with these children against the wishes of their parents.

At some point, you're going to have to reconcile with the idea that progressive ideas like those surrounding gay rights don't mix with conservative religions. Especially when the religion in question is used in a multitude of countries to justify the execution of homosexuals.

I think everyone is aware that progressive ideas clash with conservatism, because those are two directions opposite of each other. However, that doesn't mean that people who propose progressive ideas are aggressors as you want to portray them. In the specific case of this topic, the aggressors are those who don't mind that homosexuals get executed for their sexual orientation; there shouldn't be any doubt about that. Now there are two ways to respond:

1. Leave the aggressors be and allow them to foster a culture of intolerance.
2. Speak out against them and take action.

We can pretend that intolerance towards the intolerant is bad because supposedly all intolerance is always bad, or we can apply common sense and take a look at human history where the Catholic Church was met with intolerance time and time again, whether that concerns women or gay rights, studying the human body to save lives or a multitude of other subjects. Did things get better or worse because of the intolerance towards the Catholic Church? That's a rhethorical question.

Now why should Islam be exempt from the same values in Western society?

Do you keep missing the point where I say I'm on the lgbt side of this?



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