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Forums - Gaming Discussion - When did you first notice that grafix had diminishing returns?

linkink said:
curl-6 said:

Even 360's hardware was more exotic at launch than PS4/Xbone were. It didn't employ mature standardized technology like current gen systems do.

360 hardware within a year after release was  mature standardized technology that didn't stop it from making massive gains. Some of the biggest gains came when  it was ancient tech, Halo 4, and Forza horizon for example. 

First it was about ps3 complex tech, now your argument is about PS4/Xbone having  mature standardized technology, therefore  gains will be impossible to match lastgen exotic hardware. it doesn't really matter if it's mature standardized technology, if it's not a console like a ps4/xbox because developers would waste very little resources mastering it. That's why PC gaming graphics have seen  gigantic gains after current gen consoles were released. You also completely  ignore permalite explanation. It's fine if you are not impressed by the progress of ps4 games, but trying to pass off your opinion up as fact with weak arguments is not.

My argument has not changed. Mature standardized tech that is easy to make efficient use of from day 1 typically offers less room for improvement than exotic new technology that developers have to learn to get the hang of. PS4/Xbone were mature standardized tech, PS3/360 were not. Those are the facts in this case.

You haven't provided a single concrete fact to support your argument, just opinions and speculation.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 09 May 2019

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curl-6 said:
linkink said:

360 hardware within a year after release was  mature standardized technology that didn't stop it from making massive gains. Some of the biggest gains came when  it was ancient tech, Halo 4, and Forza horizon for example. 

First it was about ps3 complex tech, now your argument is about PS4/Xbone having  mature standardized technology, therefore  gains will be impossible to match lastgen exotic hardware. it doesn't really matter if it's mature standardized technology, if it's not a console like a ps4/xbox because developers would waste very little resources mastering it. That's why PC gaming graphics have seen  gigantic gains after current gen consoles were released. You also completely  ignore permalite explanation. It's fine if you are not impressed by the progress of ps4 games, but trying to pass off your opinion up as fact with weak arguments is not.

My argument has not changed. Mature standardized tech that is easy to make efficient use of from day 1 typically offers less room for improvement than exotic new technology that developers have to learn to get the hang of. PS4/Xbone were mature standardized tech, PS3/360 were not. Those are the facts in this case.

You haven't provided a single concrete fact to support your argument, just opinions and speculation.

Are main argument started  with you saying it was impossible for ps4 to match ps3 gains because PS4 was Mature standardized tech. I said it comes to down more to developers finding new efficient  render technique. PS4/XB1 are Diffidently seeing bigger gains then dreamcast, N64, and gamecube, and all those were exotic new hardware, which goes back to my main point.



linkink said:
curl-6 said:

My argument has not changed. Mature standardized tech that is easy to make efficient use of from day 1 typically offers less room for improvement than exotic new technology that developers have to learn to get the hang of. PS4/Xbone were mature standardized tech, PS3/360 were not. Those are the facts in this case.

You haven't provided a single concrete fact to support your argument, just opinions and speculation.

Are main argument was you said it was impossible for ps4 to match ps3 gains because PS4 was Mature standardized tech. I said it comes to down more to developers finding new efficient  render technique. PS4/XB1 are Diffidently seeing bigger much gains then dreamcast, N64, and gamecube, and all those were exotic new hardware, which goes back to my main point.

That's still a matter of opinion though. I for instance would say PS4 hasn't progressed anywhere near as much as N64 did.



I think Heavenly Sword on the PS3 was the last game where I felt the jump in graphics was significant from what I had played up until that point. Games obviously got better looking but I did start to notice diminishing returns after that game.



curl-6 said:
linkink said:

Are main argument was you said it was impossible for ps4 to match ps3 gains because PS4 was Mature standardized tech. I said it comes to down more to developers finding new efficient  render technique. PS4/XB1 are Diffidently seeing bigger much gains then dreamcast, N64, and gamecube, and all those were exotic new hardware, which goes back to my main point.

That's still a matter of opinion though. I for instance would say PS4 hasn't progressed anywhere near as much as N64 did.

N64 had banjo and Zelda OOT, after that both of the sequels  for those games were hardly a upgrade, progress was dead, mean while on ps4, you have horizon GOW, then red dead 2 which people were in disbelief it could run on base ps4, and we still have last of us 2 which looks mind blowing.



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linkink said:
curl-6 said:

That's still a matter of opinion though. I for instance would say PS4 hasn't progressed anywhere near as much as N64 did.

N64 had banjo and Zelda OOT, after that both of the sequels  for those games were hardly a upgrade, progress was dead, mean while on ps4, you have horizon GOW, then red dead 2 which people were in disbelief it could run on base ps4, and we still have last of us 2 which looks mind blowing.

See we're still just on opinions though. I'd say the progress N64 made from launch to the likes of Conker dwarfs the difference between Shadowfall and any later PS4 game.



The_Liquid_Laser said:
mZuzek said:

You're not easily impressed, are you?

Heh, maybe.  It might be that I'm impressed by different things though.  

Part of the diminishing returns in generation 8 is that higher resolution can make things look worse.  Like I played Spider-Man last year, and the city looked beautiful but the people looked terrible.  The people were more detailed and such, but the higher resolution pushed the people into an Uncanny Valley and so they looked kinda creepy.  On the other hand Breath of the Wild went with a more cartoony style and I never had any issues with the people.  On top of that one of the few advantages the Switch has is draw distance.  Things look exceptionally crisp and clear at a distance on the Switch.  In Breath of the Wild this means that I could see Mount Doom on the other side of the map, but then later I could actually visit and interact with that place.  I had never had an experience like that before, and in this case the graphics were an enhancement to the exploration of the game and not just eye candy alone. 

Breath of the Wild used better design instead of better horsepower.  I am impressed by the better design, because it actually created a better game.  More CPU/GPU power can ironically make a game worse, because of the Uncanny Valley.

Your comment about resolution reminded me of this:



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
Switch - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (2019)
Switch - Bastion (2011/2018)
Switch - Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (2014/2017)
3DS - Star Fox 64 3D (2011)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Wii U - Darksiders: Warmastered Edition (2010/2017)
Mobile - The Simpson's Tapped Out and Yugioh Duel Links

curl-6 said:
linkink said:

N64 had banjo and Zelda OOT, after that both of the sequels  for those games were hardly a upgrade, progress was dead, mean while on ps4, you have horizon GOW, then red dead 2 which people were in disbelief it could run on base ps4, and we still have last of us 2 which looks mind blowing.

See we're still just on opinions though. I'd say the progress N64 made from launch to the likes of Conker dwarfs the difference between Shadowfall and any later PS4 game.

The whole subject is opinion based, you were trying to make into a fact based argument. Gains come mostly from developers finding new ways for rendering technics, and learning how to use the hardware as efficiently as possible. It really doesn't matter if PS4/xb1 are standardized mature tech because developers weren't trying to find  new  rendering technics, or learn how to use that hardware as efficiently as possible before PS4/XB1 came out., The main focus was still ancient 360/ps3 till current gen came out.

Last edited by linkink - on 10 May 2019

With the xbox one and ps4. I don't think next gen's graphics will be much better.



linkink said:
curl-6 said:

See we're still just on opinions though. I'd say the progress N64 made from launch to the likes of Conker dwarfs the difference between Shadowfall and any later PS4 game.

The whole subject is opinion based, you were trying to make into a fact based argument. Gains come mostly from developers finding new ways for rendering technics, and learning how to use the hardware as efficiently as possible. It really doesn't matter if PS4/xb1 are standardized mature tech because developers weren't trying to find  new  rendering technics, or learn how to use that hardware as efficiently as possible before PS4/XB1 came out., The main focus was still ancient 360/ps3 till current gen came out.

Already covered this; learning to use PS4/Xbone efficiently was, by intentional design on MS/Sony's part, easier than PS3/360, hence less room for improvement over time. 

Look, you can rail against the realities of development as long as you like, but there's a better option; because graphics are a matter of subjective perception, you're still allowed to think that something looks better to you no matter what the facts say. For example, even though the raw facts say PS4's power leap over PS3 is quite large, I still personally feel it was a little underwhelming, and that's okay. We all have cases where our perceptions don't align with the raw numbers. Just be satisfied with your own opinion and don't take it as an affront when the objective side is brought up.

If it seemed like I was attacking you, I should clarify that was not my intent; you seem to have taken this personally and there's really no need for that as I bear you no ill will.