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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - This guy tells it like it is reguarding the Borderlands 3 exclusivity with epic games store.

ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

When was the last one released? The last one I really can think about is UT3, which is already 10 years old. So no wonder they are not doing well on Twitch since none are releasing.

Also, it's timed exclusives, not store exclusives. They are just firing their money from Fortnite and TenCent from all cannons, but at one point they will run dry. At that point It will come down to features, and in that department EGS is dead last.

Cliff b made One, it was the biggest bombeiros of this generativo

Did you notice how forcibly hyped it was?. "Billion dollar franchise". Also, did you watch how fast the guy dropped it as well?. Did you see how fast Ubisoft didn't drop their then failing RB6S?.

If you over hype it, force cringe your own IP and self image then drop your IP like a rock, don't blame it on the genre or the people, blame yourself.

Also Cliffy comes from the same background as Tim, Gears of War, a franchise both have abandoned and distanced themselves from. 

Tim's own game was a big ass flop, but it only held out due to "let's copy the ring leader", rather than setting your own trend. Yes, FN is making the big bucks, but it's only because it copied someone and applied an idea from someone else, ergo making them twice unoriginal for devs, since they've had to borrow multiple existing ideas, and using a dart board to see what sticks, and then sticking with it, because it quite frankly prints them money, so they don't feel the need to make original games of their own. I want to wonder who else we blame for that.

We are still getting arena shooters btw. It's just that no one in the AAA space wants to try, because if it's not an EA sports game, appealing to the most casual of casuals, and oozing with MT's out the backside, generating billions of literal dollars, then it's clearly not worth it for them to bother investing, and thus you'll hardly see them even wanting to try, because it's not about making games, it's never about joy to them, it's about making a million to a billion, to a trillion. Just look at the RTS genre, it used to be big, but now it's a husk of it's former self. It won't see a revival in the AAA space, because all the AAA space cares about is making a few billion, not making good games for different audiences. it's not about what you and I want, it's about what the casual, what the always largest gaming audience has always wanted, and always mattered. 

Like, I'm going to be real here. Real talk. We talk on here about how well some SP games sells for, we boast about how SP games aren't dead, but just look at what a simple MP based game like FN makes, look at how many play and use it daily, look at League. MP games make the most, are played by the most and are catered to the most these days. Just look at how the mobile market isn't shrinking at all. We are a dying breed, and eventually, we won't even matter, so while you say Arena genre is dead, we'll soon be dust ourselves, because we're not making that unstable industry a few billion over the years. 

Last edited by Chazore - on 20 April 2019

"Six days have passed, on the seventh, I will render myself to a day of rest and to contemplate...what is to be"

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The guy is right, its not like we have to dish out more money to play these games like console gamers have to. My issue is the lack of attention Steam and Steam fanboys seem to understand. I want a perfect world where all my games are on one launcher.. however the lack of movement Steam is doing for me is lacklustre and actually feels Steam are the ones pushing me away from using there service rather than Steam doing whats right for there long serving customers.

I understand if deals are made and there is not much to be done however the lack of competing with doing the same things or at least matching the service that EGS is bringing by helping the devs out more it will at least give those Steam owners a shining light knowing that our beloved service is out there and there trying rather than continuing watching games disappear from Steam with no retaliation.



The lack of "competing" with doing the same things or at least matching the service EGS is bringing. 

What service?. What does Valve magically have to match for the consumer, that isn't a dev pov perspective?.Valve are already making games, already getting games sold on their storefront. Valve are making a VR headset, while Epic isn't making any games, isn't making any VR headsets, and is leaving their storefront features to dead last, while also clearly refusing to toss in mod support.

Nothing gives me a "shining" bloody light, knowing that devs who don't care about their consumers, get a slightly better cut. I'm in this industry for luxury games, to have fun, not play some pity "care for you, but diligaf for me" kind of charity.

"our beloved service is out there "trying". Oh please mate, you're far past that. Far part making "noble" speeches about what you think is best for us, and for us to follow your direction.

I'm actually glad that all of this serves to "push" you away, because you're frankly not adding anything to it, apart from empty speeches and calling Steam users, actual people with actual brains, as "fanboys", because that totally wins everyone over when you call them a fanboy, doesn't it?.

Last edited by Chazore - on 21 April 2019

"Six days have passed, on the seventh, I will render myself to a day of rest and to contemplate...what is to be"

Azzanation said:
The guy is right, its not like we have to dish out more money to play these games like console gamers have to. My issue is the lack of attention Steam and Steam fanboys seem to understand. I want a perfect world where all my games are on one launcher.. however the lack of movement Steam is doing for me is lacklustre and actually feels Steam are the ones pushing me away from using there service rather than Steam doing whats right for there long serving customers.

I understand if deals are made and there is not much to be done however the lack of competing with doing the same things or at least matching the service that EGS is bringing by helping the devs out more it will at least give those Steam owners a shining light knowing that our beloved service is out there and there trying rather than continuing watching games disappear from Steam with no retaliation.

Besides making games (let's be real, Epic cancelled one and stopped development on another.....all in the name of Fortnite), what else should Steam be doing? They have, objectively, the best storefront on the PC platform. If they are 'doing more to push you away', I have to ask what it is they need to be doing to reverse this phenomenon. And, what has Epic truly done that benefits the platform?

Also, it's not nice to refer to Steam fans as 'fanboys'. ;P



                                                                                                             

CGI-Quality said:

Besides making games (let's be real, Epic cancelled one and stopped development on another.....all in the name of Fortnite), what else should Steam be doing? They have, objectively, the best storefront on the PC platform. If they are 'doing more to push you away', I have to ask what it is they need to be doing to reverse this phenomenon. And, what has Epic truly done that benefits the platform?

Also, it's not nice to refer to Steam fans as 'fanboys'. ;P

Actually making games, making a headset, making controllers for that headset, and also working on a store revamp, as well as wanting to take another shot at making your recently botched game a better one, is something that shouldn't be ignored or scrubbed off, just because it isn't to someone's liking. Ubisoft makes games I end up disliking (for various reasons), but I'd never stoop to claim they make "no games".



"Six days have passed, on the seventh, I will render myself to a day of rest and to contemplate...what is to be"

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CGI-Quality said:

Besides making games (let's be real, Epic cancelled one and stopped development on another.....all in the name of Fortnite), what else should Steam be doing? They have, objectively, the best storefront on the PC platform. If they are 'doing more to push you away', I have to ask what it is they need to be doing to reverse this phenomenon. And, what has Epic truly done that benefits the platform?

Also, it's not nice to refer to Steam fans as 'fanboys'. ;P

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Personally Steam should offer devs the same 12% than there 30% or 20% if sold well deal.

And not lose games like Borderlands 3 and The Outer Worlds. They should get in early and secure some deal with some big 3rd parties. I dont want to wait 6 to 12months to play most anticipated games.

VR isnt for me and i am glad MS and Steam are working togother but thats not enough since MCC is a 4 year old game.. i mean Borderlands 3 would have been awesome on Steam at launch. Valve just need to compete better.



~ snip

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Personally Steam should offer devs the same 12% than there 30% or 20% if sold well deal.

And not lose games like Borderlands 3 and The Outer Worlds. They should get in early and secure some deal with some big 3rd parties. I dont want to wait 6 to 12months to play most anticipated games.

VR isnt for me and i am glad MS and Steam are working togother but thats not enough since MCC is a 4 year old game.. i mean Borderlands 3 would have been awesome on Steam at launch. Valve just need to compete better.

'Losing games' is what happens when money exchanges hands. That is not a fault of Valve. Besides, I'm glad they have not engaged in that kind of thing (at least, not yet). 

Ultimately, there's not much else they can do that won't turn this into something you mainly see with console manufacturers. Plus, it has yet to be a proven benefit to the consumer. That you are somehow hurting due to Valve's complacency, in the wake of an attack from Fortnite money, is very much a personal problem. That '12% cut' is pretty moot anyway, because once Epic covers what ever potential loss the developer may incur from skipping Steam, that issue is largely removed. Why do you think they're all happily taking the bread? It's the money doing the talking.............. the money coming straight from Epic's Fortnite clad hands, not a smaller cut than what Steam takes. Consumer outrage is particularly measly in a case like this.

So, consider this, if you are truly hurting from Valve not doing what the other guy is doing, that is because you'd rather be using Steam, negating much of your sentiments surrounding a defense of Epic.

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 22 April 2019

                                                                                                             

CGI-Quality said:

'Losing games' is what happens when money exchanges hands. That is not a fault of Valve. Besides, I'm glad they have not engaged in that kind of thing (at least, not yet). 

Ultimately, there's not much else they can do that won't turn this into something you mainly see with console manufacturers. Plus, it has yet to be a proven benefit to the consumer. That you are somehow hurting due to Valve's complacency, in the wake of an attack from Fortnite money, is very much a personal problem. That '12% cut' is pretty moot anyway, because once Epic covers what ever potential loss the developer may incur from skipping Steam, that issue is largely removed. Why do you think they're all happily taking the bread? It's the money doing the talking.............. the money coming straight from Epic's Fortnite clad hands, not a smaller cut than what Steam takes. Consumer outrage is particularly measly in a case like this.

So, consider this, if you are truly hurting from Valve not doing what the other guy is doing, that is because you'd rather be using Steam, negating much of your sentiments surrounding a defense of Epic.

My issue is the principle of the matter. Valve are simply not trying. I can understand that Valve doesn't have control on what deals are made behind there back however they can simply reduce the temptations by matching the same cut that Epic has as a small example. By doing that will make devs think twice about accepting a deal or not. Games aren't just arriving on EGS for nothing, they are arriving on EGS because its simply a better deal. If Steam matches the 12% cut, than devs will discuss weather or not its worth accepting a 6month deal with no extra profits and on a much smaller user base. Why hasn't Steam considered this? Because they simply don't care because of greed. They are living by the logic of "They will be back" and that does not benefit there current consumers. Valve have money, they just don't want to spend whereas there competition is.

Epic also has Tencent behind them so lets not just think Fortnite is the only real budget maker they have. If Tencent start seeing the growth in the digital market than don't be surprise if they start investing big into it. 

I like to see hungry competition, its one thing I admire MS for this gen, and that's there resilience. They are simply not laying down allowing there competition to take control, they are investing which we have seen with there studio buy outs etc. Valve doesn't have to buy studios, however there are other ways to compete. For now Steam has the community and the EGS is in its infancy, however give it some years and watch it grow and become bigger and better. 

My analogy is this, don't just let your competition walk through the gate, make them climb the fence. Steam has definitely left the gate open and its starting to hurt those who want to play some games that they now have to wait 6 to 12months for.

I do agree with the video in that its a petty thing to care about since launchers on PC are free, its why I question those who never wanted to use the Win10 store since its free with every modern PC that's not Apple. But the thing is, if MS decide in a few years to only release there games on there XB2 and Win10 store, watch the uproar of upset PC elitists, only difference here is MS make and own there IPS which they are entitled to where as Epic just steal from Steam. Big difference between Epic and Steam is that Steam already has the customers so buying rights to a game isn't going to hurt anyone however Epic being the new kid on the block is forcing change and that plays an affect on those who are settled on a eco-system. 



Azzanation said:
CGI-Quality said:

~snip

My issue is the principle of the matter. Valve are simply not trying. I can understand that Valve doesn't have control on what deals are made behind there back however they can simply reduce the temptations by matching the same cut that Epic has as a small example. By doing that will make devs think twice about accepting a deal or not. Games aren't just arriving on EGS for nothing, they are arriving on EGS because its simply a better deal. If Steam matches the 12% cut, than devs will discuss weather or not its worth accepting a 6month deal with no extra profits and on a much smaller user base. Why hasn't Steam considered this? Because they simply don't care because of greed. They are living by the logic of "They will be back" and that does not benefit there current consumers. Valve have money, they just don't want to spend whereas there competition is.

Epic also has Tencent behind them so lets not just think Fortnite is the only real budget maker they have. If Tencent start seeing the growth in the digital market than don't be surprise if they start investing big into it. 

I like to see hungry competition, its one thing I admire MS for this gen, and that's there resilience. They are simply not laying down allowing there competition to take control, they are investing which we have seen with there studio buy outs etc. Valve doesn't have to buy studios, however there are other ways to compete. For now Steam has the community and the EGS is in its infancy, however give it some years and watch it grow and become bigger and better. 

My analogy is this, don't just let your competition walk through the gate, make them climb the fence. Steam has definitely left the gate open and its starting to hurt those who want to play some games that they now have to wait 6 to 12months for.

I do agree with the video in that its a petty thing to care about since launchers on PC are free, its why I question those who never wanted to use the Win10 store since its free with every modern PC that's not Apple. But the thing is, if MS decide in a few years to only release there games on there XB2 and Win10 store, watch the uproar of upset PC elitists, only difference here is MS make and own there IPS which they are entitled to where as Epic just steal from Steam. Big difference between Epic and Steam is that Steam already has the customers so buying rights to a game isn't going to hurt anyone however Epic being the new kid on the block is forcing change and that plays an affect on those who are settled on a eco-system. 

I don't think the Fortnite funds are the only money they have, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think that's where the majority of this comes from. Also, please don't talk to me about greed. You're supporting one rich corp. over another. They all follow a very similar pattern, obviously. The difference? Steam has not outright paid for exclusivity of games (particularly when said games are about to launch). 

Epic is simply throwing a bag of money around, while their store is as barbones as it gets. That is not 'competition'. Never mind the contradictory statements from Tim Sweeney.



                                                                                                             

CGI has already spoke of the cut, and that it will not make much of a difference, because quite frankly, Epic are and have been seen giving devs a fair bit of cash up front, as well as providing cash, should their games not sell on their storefront, to cover them for those exclusivity deals. Valve aren't all for covering literally every single dev like that, and I can see why. Valve and certainly Epic, are not charity cases (it's why you see Epic going for must haves, and not truly caring about all the smaller indie devs, who actually do need more help than AAA ever will).

Like CGI said, I do hope that Valve do not dabble in Epic's style of business practices. We also do not know from Valve, on just how much it actually costs to maintain everything on their end. No one has actually come out with hard concrete data, that shows us that Valve have it cheap on their end of running things. Literally no one has come out with receipts on this kind of data, and thus we're seeing baseless assumptions of "they are just greedy".
"they will be back". They already are back. They've been working on a headset, controllers for it and 3 VR games, as well as having Campo Santo working on their own game, as well as Valve wanting to reboot their card game. They are still in this industry, and still creating.

Valve have money, but they don't want to waste it on Tim's anti-consumer logic and business practices, and I fully applaud Valve not stooping to their level. I actually applaud anyone who defies your logic of what "competition" should be like. You've stated before that you don't care for mods, let alone the modding community, which is a common staple of PC gaming, and celebrated and used by many. Because you do not share in that aspect of PC gaming, it's no surprise that you'd want PC gaming forced to it's knees to a console level war, to benefit people like yourself. You don't even care, nor want to care about what people like myself want, not even Tim cares, because he refuses to acknowledge this when I reply to his tweets. The man flat out doesn't want me as his audience, he wants an audience that buy whatever lies he tells them.He doesn't want someone who has principles, or someone who knows what is right and wrong, he just wants someone gullible enough to buy into what he's trying to sell.

Tencent pumping money into Epic isn't a good thing to see. You do realize that Tencent are far larger than Disney, and also have their fingers in far too many pies. Apart from that FN is their massive money maker, their own game, so that will of course be their main focus, and the main focus from our side as well, since it's a video game.


Also, to note, Tencent already see "value" in the PC market. They've had their own storefront in China for a while now, and have recently brought their own client to the West, to which it sports more features than EGS currently has. Seeing as how Tencent offers Epic advice on what to do, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see Tencent making it look like there is 2"competition" going between EGS and Wegame, just like how Tencent has multiple mobile companies that it owns directly "competing" against one another. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Tencent making the same exclusivity deals that Epic have been making, which would only further fragment the market for us.

You know what I like to see?. I like to see honest hard working competition. Not competition that seeks to buy it's way into a market, and seeks to completely eliminate it's competitor and the smaller guys below them. I don't see why Valve has to play by MS let alone EGS's rules, it's become increasingly evident that MS and EGS are not "market leaders". they are in fact following market leaders, and trying to make it seem like they will become the defacto rulers of said markets (massive hint is that neither will, and that's a good thing).

Don't be blinded by one man and his lies. Don't allow one man to fool you into thinking he is trying to "save" a platform he had long since abandoned.

People have issues with other PC clients, mainly because those clients aren't on par with Steam, which is what a good amount of PC gamers have come to expect. The Win 10 store is still disliked by many, primarily because it's a complete backwards step. It's nowhere near close to Steam, and this becomes greatly evident when you tell us that you not only don't care for modding, but also features, features that even current gen consoles have. Seeing a defense over a store that isn't liked by many, while greatly criticizing a storefront that many millions use, is honestly disingenuous in it's entirety. Just because a client is free, doesn't automatically save it from being criticized at all, let alone being a poor shoddy one at that.

MS still has yet to release the majority of it's "exclusive" lineup on it's PC side. I'm also waiting for a proper refund system as well as a system that automatically recognizes your country of residence, along with the person's country of residence that you are gifting (so that you do not gift someone Win 10 Minecraft, only for the code to not work, despite both living in the exact same country, and not being able to refund it because it's a "digital code", thus forming a scummy loophole).

"watch the uproar of PC elitists", get over yourself my dude. That's twice you've decided to slant PC folk, either by calling them Steam fanboys and now PC "elitists". People like me are absolutely in our right to openly criticize the Windows 10 store for what it is, and MS have openly acknowledged this over the years. No one said anything about MS relinquishing their IP's at all. people have said they would love to see MS release their games not only on Win 10, but Steam and other stores, because that allows for a bigger audience reach, as well as being able to sell more copies. Selling Halo on a storefront, that lacks so many features, and not being consumer friendly, is one way to earn ire and a lack of sales, and for valid reason.

You openly acknowledge that Epic is effectively being anti-consumer and stealing from others, but you excuse it because they are trying to tell you that it's "for the good of us all"?. I don't buy it, and that's also disingenuous.

Last edited by Chazore - on 23 April 2019

"Six days have passed, on the seventh, I will render myself to a day of rest and to contemplate...what is to be"